I have 2 Stihl MS180C chainsaws, one Dewalt 60v battery chainsaw, and one bigger Stihl chainsaw that doesn't start easy (I haven't run since an accident I had a few years ago; I think it's a MS290 Farm Boss). Anyways, my Stihl MS180C saws work fine most of the time, and I try to sharpen the chain after every tank of gas (or 1.5-2 tanks depending on the task at hand). It seems like the chains get stiff over time, even though I use Bar oil every time, sharpen regularly, and sometimes soak my chains in used motor oil. The 180C's come with a 16'' bar and chain, which seems to balance well, and doesn't take long to sharpen with Stihl's all in one sharpening tool. Do thicker chains work any better? Should I soak my chains in something else while not in use for better lubrication? I'd like a heavier saw with a 20'' bar or something for cutting up bigger limbs into firewood length, but not sure if I can justify the cost of another chainsaw. Maybe I am being too cheap? Or maybe I should pay for professional repairs to the MS290? I live in Northwest Iowa, and there is ample wood here as a bunch of dead ash trees have been cut down in smaller towns like mine, and I like people to make use of it rather than just hauling it away and burning it in the country somewhere. It seems to me like gas powered saws are far more powerful than any battery powered I've seen. However, the battery powered saws have their time and place too.
Farmer Chainsaw Choice. How long do chains really last with good care?
- Thread starter lietz
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I have a MS170 with a 14" B&C in the pico. One year I had to cut my firewood with only that saw. Mostly 20-24" stuff. It got the job done, but was hard on the saw. Now I reserve it for smaller 12" or less. Good for delimbing.
As for chains, I don't care for the pico chain. I've broken off too many teeth. I want to step up to a thicker chain. Won't bog down the engine much more.
Wrt your MS290, I'd take it in and see what it would take to get it running. Maybe only needs carb cleaning.
thompsoncustom
ArboristSite Guru
To bad you weren't on the northeast side of Iowa I'd help ya out on that 290.
Yes the thicker chains hold there cutting edge longer but also take longer to sharpen. Seems like my 3/8lp dull way faster the normal 3/8 chains. I haven't run the .325 chains I have enough to comment on them other that it's probably somewhere in-between. Carbide chains are also an option
Yes the thicker chains hold there cutting edge longer but also take longer to sharpen. Seems like my 3/8lp dull way faster the normal 3/8 chains. I haven't run the .325 chains I have enough to comment on them other that it's probably somewhere in-between. Carbide chains are also an option
Your 2hrs and 20min from Dike, that is where Mark Hiemann's chainsaw museum and saw shop is, drive over and purchase any "PRO" saw from any time period and you'll be ahead of the game.
Basically your using cheap homeowner grade chainsaws at this point, although well made they don't hold a candle to professional saws made 30-40 years ago.
Mark is a man with integrity beyond reproach, I'm sure he can set you up.
Excellent advice!!!
spuldup
ArboristSite Operative
Purple Power or or any degreaser with Sodium Hydroxide is a great chain cleaner when you're cutting sappy wood. Follow up with WD40 to lube.
dave ensign
Trapshooter
A well sharpened chain should NOT need to be sharpened that often unless the wood/bark is full of dirt or you're hitting the ground.
What @dave ensign said was brought to bear in a lesson well learned.
One key way to prolong the sharpness of your chain is to be mindful of dirt/stones, etc. The part of the lesson that I want to pass on is that while bucking, make sure that you are cutting through a clean log. In other words, if any part of the log was dragged in dirt, sand etc, do all you can to debark any areas that you see have that gunk in it. These will dull and wear on your chain the same as hitting the dirt. Also, in case you think that debarking is too much work, It really only has to be the areas directly in line with the saw kerf, not the whole log debarked.
As far as sharpening, learn from what the others have said here.
One key way to prolong the sharpness of your chain is to be mindful of dirt/stones, etc. The part of the lesson that I want to pass on is that while bucking, make sure that you are cutting through a clean log. In other words, if any part of the log was dragged in dirt, sand etc, do all you can to debark any areas that you see have that gunk in it. These will dull and wear on your chain the same as hitting the dirt. Also, in case you think that debarking is too much work, It really only has to be the areas directly in line with the saw kerf, not the whole log debarked.
As far as sharpening, learn from what the others have said here.
Carbide chain on that saw would be a joke. Had a client try one on his 261, fail. I re-ground the chain to standard chain angles (diamond wheel) and it was much better but not even close to regular chain performance.
The original question was "How long does a chain last?" ..
Hit a bullet in a tree, or a nail, or "oops", and touch the ground, and the game changes. Cutting softwood, or cutting hardwood? If one tooth is damaged, theoretically, you should take a bench grinder, and fix the cutter... Then, you should grind all the other cutters to the same length. Or, if you've got a right cutter and a left cutter damaged, once re-ground, the saw chain shouldn't pull.. Theoretically..
When I cut Birch, because it has paper for bark, which doesn't trap grit, there's really no difference in the flakes between the start of the first tank of fuel, and the end of the second or third tank of fuel. In that scenario, touching up the chain after every tank is unnecessary.
When I've cut Ash trees, their bark holds grit like you wouldn't believe.. Sometimes you don't even make the end of the first tank before sharpening is needed.
One day, when I don't have anything else to do, I'm going to take a piece of scrap chain, lock it in the vice, and count how many strokes it takes to bring the cutter back to the line on the top of the cutter that says "That's far enough, sonny!". Then, I can divide the total stroke count by three, and that will be how many times a saw chain can be sharpened , ( touched up). I'd estimate that it'd be at least 50 times... In a perfect world.
A saw chain is meant to be a " self feeding " system. That means that you really shouldn't have to push the saw through the cut.. maybe change the attack angle on larger cuts, but not push down on the bar.. The dogs are there for control, especially when cutting sideways. Pushing down on the bar causes unnecessary friction ( heat ), and wears the bar out prematurely, it also saps power. Having to "dress" the bar is an indicator that you have pushed down on the bar, and has something to do with needing to be flipping the bar over to spread the wear out over both sides. In a perfect world, one chain, should wear out one bar.. Unfortunately, the world is seldom perfect.. ( Bar check.. Put the chain in the bar.. how much wiggle does it have from side to side? Big wiggle?.. Bad bar). Also, having to push the saw chain means it's probably cutting slower. It's more productive to stop and sharpen, and it's easier on the equipment too.
For chain cleaning, I'll usually spray them with brake cleaner after sharpening, so that there are no metal fragments in the rollers, blow them off with compressed air, and then toss them in the ultrasonic cleaner. The crud that comes off of them is amazing. Then they get sprayed with lubricant. The difference in longevity is amazing. Holding the loop sideways and seeing how much sag there is, is also a good indication of the chain's health.
Hit a bullet in a tree, or a nail, or "oops", and touch the ground, and the game changes. Cutting softwood, or cutting hardwood? If one tooth is damaged, theoretically, you should take a bench grinder, and fix the cutter... Then, you should grind all the other cutters to the same length. Or, if you've got a right cutter and a left cutter damaged, once re-ground, the saw chain shouldn't pull.. Theoretically..
When I cut Birch, because it has paper for bark, which doesn't trap grit, there's really no difference in the flakes between the start of the first tank of fuel, and the end of the second or third tank of fuel. In that scenario, touching up the chain after every tank is unnecessary.
When I've cut Ash trees, their bark holds grit like you wouldn't believe.. Sometimes you don't even make the end of the first tank before sharpening is needed.
One day, when I don't have anything else to do, I'm going to take a piece of scrap chain, lock it in the vice, and count how many strokes it takes to bring the cutter back to the line on the top of the cutter that says "That's far enough, sonny!". Then, I can divide the total stroke count by three, and that will be how many times a saw chain can be sharpened , ( touched up). I'd estimate that it'd be at least 50 times... In a perfect world.
A saw chain is meant to be a " self feeding " system. That means that you really shouldn't have to push the saw through the cut.. maybe change the attack angle on larger cuts, but not push down on the bar.. The dogs are there for control, especially when cutting sideways. Pushing down on the bar causes unnecessary friction ( heat ), and wears the bar out prematurely, it also saps power. Having to "dress" the bar is an indicator that you have pushed down on the bar, and has something to do with needing to be flipping the bar over to spread the wear out over both sides. In a perfect world, one chain, should wear out one bar.. Unfortunately, the world is seldom perfect.. ( Bar check.. Put the chain in the bar.. how much wiggle does it have from side to side? Big wiggle?.. Bad bar). Also, having to push the saw chain means it's probably cutting slower. It's more productive to stop and sharpen, and it's easier on the equipment too.
For chain cleaning, I'll usually spray them with brake cleaner after sharpening, so that there are no metal fragments in the rollers, blow them off with compressed air, and then toss them in the ultrasonic cleaner. The crud that comes off of them is amazing. Then they get sprayed with lubricant. The difference in longevity is amazing. Holding the loop sideways and seeing how much sag there is, is also a good indication of the chain's health.
Colonel428
ArboristSite Operative
"In a perfect world one chain should wear out one bar"...Say what? I damn sure expect the Husky lite and Tsumura bars I have to last for hundreds of chains with proper care. Just sayin'...
How long should a chain last if you're not hitting dirt or cutting dirty wood? I've had 18" .325 chains cut between 15 and 20 cords of hickory and white oak. I also have chains that are on their last leg that have been laying in the bottom of my tool box or on a nail in my unattached garage for a decade and don't need "cleaned". No need to soak them in anything.
I'm not a fan of the 029 or MS290. Its not a bad saw, Its just a heavy saw for no more power than it has. Get a ms261 with a 16" and a 20" bar. If money is tight, get a G266 which is a clone of the ms260. The 261 was a noticeable step in power over its predecessor, but the 260 and 026 were great saws in their day.
I'm not a fan of the 029 or MS290. Its not a bad saw, Its just a heavy saw for no more power than it has. Get a ms261 with a 16" and a 20" bar. If money is tight, get a G266 which is a clone of the ms260. The 261 was a noticeable step in power over its predecessor, but the 260 and 026 were great saws in their day.
Go to the woods one day and cut all day on a sharpen. Go the next day, hit one piece of dirt or trash in a tree (sap spiels around here) and that chain could be all done. No good answer. Sounds like a test for Project Farm.
The cutters will switch to micro chisel when muddy.
The cutters will switch to micro chisel when muddy.
Not exactly what I meant to imply.. Let me put it this way.. If the chain never gets damaged, to the point that it needs repair, just sharpening as necessary, and the chain isn't pushed into the bar, any bar should outlast the first chain. That's a lot of sharpenings, a lot of use, and a lot of miles on the bar.
Truth be told, I've never really checked to see how much longer a premium bar lasts, compared to a budget bar. I usually just replace bars when the chain can be wiggled a lot in the groove.
I've got cheap bars, stock bars, but I've never bought a high end one. Maybe it's time I did.
Nice catch.. Thanks!
Hermio
Addicted to ArboristSite
I can't say how long a chain will last, in terms of time. But a chain is still usable until it is filed or ground back to the guideline mark that shows the proper sharpening angle. That means almost 75% of the tooth is ground away. And it actually cuts faster that way, as the kerf is narrower than a new tooth, letting the saw rev more. Sometimes the chain stretches too far to be adjusted for tension on the bar. But you can remove a link and keep going. The bar can last extremely long if you periodically swage and grind it. I haven't kept records, but I would guess a bar can easily outlast 20 chains if cared for this way.
I’ve cut dead, dry Eucalyptus that was nearly petrified. dont even bother with chisel chain…even with quality semi-chiz I might get half way through a 30” log cut ( as in, half of one round) and have to resharpen. It has very little to do with the chain. Conditions will determine when to sharpen.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I don't see any benefit to this. Used motor oil is fairly toxic and all the detergents are used up.
I'm not gonna lie... I think we need a new thread... this is the homeowners helpers thread, where homeowners ask the pros for advice.... it's starting to look like a new thread, where idiots share what worked for them for one tank...used motor oil... seriously?!? What pro uses that? Not to mention, even if it didn't blow up your yard, the carnage on the driveway, and the windows...
Hermio
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unless it is a crappy chain, such as Oregon.
