Hermio
Addicted to ArboristSite
I try to cut from the opposite side from the mud on the bark. That way, the bark is flung off as chips with little dirt hitting the teeth.
Farmer Chainsaw Choice. How long do chains really last with good care?
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James Sawyer
ArboristSite Operative
Your comment caught my eye and probably... not related to the thread but curious why you think Oregon chain is crap. In Highlight what MFG chain do you consider good and why? What method do you use to sharpen? With the cost of chains these today I'm really curious?
These statements brought about a thought I would say is a good strategy for any cuts that are likely to contact mud, dirt, rocks.
For example, either have a saw set up with a well used and many times sharpened chain, specifically meant for cutting stumps, logs in swamps, wetlands etc.
Save the new, nearly new, maintained sharp chains on one's other saws, so that they may do the most efficient cutting for felling cuts, limbing, and bucking.
As one who began with one saw and one saw for everything in 1994, my 026 took all the USE and whatever abuse I had to throw at it. I obviously could have benefitted from having smaller and larger saws than my Stihl 026, but once I did add saws, I could put my advice into practice.
James Sawyer,
Minus the nice saws, this sure reminds me of my copper colored 1977 F100 Tailgate/Bed. That truck and saws look like my cup of Tea
Minus the nice saws, this sure reminds me of my copper colored 1977 F100 Tailgate/Bed. That truck and saws look like my cup of Tea
Hermio
Addicted to ArboristSite
In my experience, Oregon chain is made out of soft metal. It seems to require very frequent sharpening, and it seems to stretch a lot. Stihl chain is pre-stretched, and the cutters have a high chrome content, so they can go longer between sharpenings. It does take a bit longer to file the Stihl chain, and it wears out the files faster. I use the Pferd 2in 1 system, which is the same as the Stihl 2 in 1, but with blue plastic instead of orange. I specifically use the Stihl RS, and I try to keep it out of the dirt, but it takes me only about 5 minutes to sharpen with the 2 in 1. I think the rakers might be filed down a bit more than stock with the 2 in 1, as the saw can be a bit grabby on smaller branches.
James Sawyer
ArboristSite Operative
Thank-you!
Personally, I find Oregon and Husqvarna chain about the same... it is softer easier on files. I like the Stihl chain a lot better, it is harder from my experience as well. However, they seem to want lot more $ for Stihl chain around here so i run a lot of Oregon because of the price and availability. If I know I'm going to hand sharpen/ touch-up in the field, I run Oregon because it easier and faster to hand file. I grind my Stihl chain and rotate out my loops. I pretty much don't run the Stihl chain because of the price anymore. It really hard to say what stay sharper longer... conditions vary so much. If you rock your chain, it's pretty much done wither its Stihl or Oregon chains. Stihl stays sharper longer with heavy bark.
James Sawyer,
I deem it mandatory that you use Oregon Bars and Oregon Chain considering where you are located. All in jest of course.
Also, can we see better pics of that truck of yours?>
When I bought my WELL USED 051 and 075 I also got a partial box of .404 Carlton chain with it.
It was probably in this forum that I had read that Carlton chain is also known for being soft and needs sharpening often.
I see no use in purchasing more .404 chain until this box is used up, but have you guys found Carlton to be soft?
It was probably in this forum that I had read that Carlton chain is also known for being soft and needs sharpening often.
I see no use in purchasing more .404 chain until this box is used up, but have you guys found Carlton to be soft?
James Sawyer
ArboristSite Operative
Lol... not my truck... It's my wife's 1977 highboy. She has her own saw as well... Husky 353. She a farm girl... she can back trailers, drive semi ...old school 20 speed brownies, break horses. Her family ran racehorses, and she had her license... tough as nails. She the best thing about me. When we 1st met, we went elk hunting with my family... she wanted to come... her rifle was a 375 big bore! 37 cal the round was about as big as your thumb. Outshot all my cousins' open sights off hand! 1st date took her to the Oregon dunes, never rode bikes no hand clutch no experience. By noon she broke the beads on two wheels sliding it sideway. Smart photographic memory, she can hand you a book she read a year ago... recite it back to you page by page as you follow along. I get away with nothing...lol. Know all my tools and how to use them not sneaking anything by her.. lol
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James Sawyer, I loved my F100 4x2, but always wished it was a 4x4.
She and her truck look A OK in my book.
She and her truck look A OK in my book.
James Sawyer
ArboristSite Operative
ya not bad truck but getting hard to find tires for the old girl... 35x12.5 16.5 wheels. I have another motor for her but darn piston are so expensive, badger quit making them, I think Tim Meyer the only source I know and they are Keith Black special run pistons.
What engine did it come with? Automatic trans? My F100 has a 302 and a C4.
Actually today Oregon EXL is superior to Stihl RS within Hardness . Far superior to the old Oregon LGX . I sharpen a few dozen chains a week . Grind another couple dozen specialty chains square & round weekly . My go to chain for fire wood service is Carelton out of Quebec , (very good metallurgy) it's old school profile (longer cutter) is quite effective within gnarly wood especially in semi chisel . I usually square grind a few loops of Carelton with a modified gullet for Moose camp where we usually have a few bucking competitions prior to breaking camp . Recently I have ordered , a few more loops of Lazer chain out of London Ontario , which has shown some very good abrasive resistance at a very competitive price point . Nothing wrong with Stihl RS out of the box , just getting a little pricy of late IMHO .
firekindler
ArboristSite Lurker
As others have said, too many variables to have a definitive answer to your basic questions. Having said that, semi-chisel will dull slower and cut faster once it begins to dull, than chisel. I cut dirty wood all the time, so after the first sharpening, I use a 1/4" file on my 3/8" chain rather than the recommended 7/32", and take most of the hook out of the side plate. That leaves more metal at the edge, which holds up much better in those conditions, and saves me much filing. Also in terms of longevity of a given chain, once the leading edge of the cutter gets behind the rear rivet, it's important to file the rakers lower than the factory recommendation. Carlton gives a good explanation of why in a small brochure they put out. Since I began using their "progressive raker maintenance" program, my chains cut fine until enough cutters break off to undermine that. I get a lot more use out of each chain now before losing cutting efficiency.
In recent years, I've noticed my Oregon chain stretching much more than previously. I think something shifted when they got sold. I now have to remove two drive links in the life of each chain to be able to adequately tighten it towards the end of its life, which I never had to do previously. I have not noticed that on the Carlton chains I've used, and plan on buying Carlton next time I'm in need of a re-stock.
In recent years, I've noticed my Oregon chain stretching much more than previously. I think something shifted when they got sold. I now have to remove two drive links in the life of each chain to be able to adequately tighten it towards the end of its life, which I never had to do previously. I have not noticed that on the Carlton chains I've used, and plan on buying Carlton next time I'm in need of a re-stock.
Sidecarflip
Addicted to ArboristSite
No chain lasts forever as they all need sharpening and sharpening removes tooth material so repeated sharpening's render any loop not useable after a while.
The frequency of replacement entirely depends on how you use it. Sticking it in the dirt or hitting metal in a cut or inadequate oiling all shortens the chain life, some appreciably. I tend to buy Oregon loops or make up my own from bulk chain which is the most economical actually. Bulk chain is somewhat expensive to initially purchase but in the long run, more economical. Of course you need the proper tools to make up your own loops.
You need a chain breaker as well as a rivet spinner and you have to be able to count drive links as well.
Like I said, I buy Oregon chain in bulk simply because it's readily available. I don't sweat metallurgy or hardness of saw chain, never have actually and I keep my loops sharp all the time. I always carry a sharp loop with me when cutting and when the loop on the saw starts to build pitch on the heel of the cutter teeth, I change out to a sharp loop.
A dull loop only makes sawdust and causes any saw to labor when cutting, whereas a sharp loop don't cause any saw to labor, makes real chips and cuts quickly.
You can have the most powerful power head and an excellent bar and a dull chain will always cut slow, and cause the powerhead to labor.
Finally, I only use greaseable roller nose bars, preferably ones with replaceable (riveted on) roller noses and I grease my roller nose bars prior to using them, every time I use them.
Your mileage may differ from mine but that is how I do it.
The frequency of replacement entirely depends on how you use it. Sticking it in the dirt or hitting metal in a cut or inadequate oiling all shortens the chain life, some appreciably. I tend to buy Oregon loops or make up my own from bulk chain which is the most economical actually. Bulk chain is somewhat expensive to initially purchase but in the long run, more economical. Of course you need the proper tools to make up your own loops.
You need a chain breaker as well as a rivet spinner and you have to be able to count drive links as well.
Like I said, I buy Oregon chain in bulk simply because it's readily available. I don't sweat metallurgy or hardness of saw chain, never have actually and I keep my loops sharp all the time. I always carry a sharp loop with me when cutting and when the loop on the saw starts to build pitch on the heel of the cutter teeth, I change out to a sharp loop.
A dull loop only makes sawdust and causes any saw to labor when cutting, whereas a sharp loop don't cause any saw to labor, makes real chips and cuts quickly.
You can have the most powerful power head and an excellent bar and a dull chain will always cut slow, and cause the powerhead to labor.
Finally, I only use greaseable roller nose bars, preferably ones with replaceable (riveted on) roller noses and I grease my roller nose bars prior to using them, every time I use them.
Your mileage may differ from mine but that is how I do it.
I've been wondering about this....how much/many times can you actually sharpen a chain.
I've read, "no more than 10 times", my DeWalt 20 volt (8") mini-saw states "no more that 4 times, recommended". Are these companies just trying to sell more chains, or is there any merit in their recommendations?
So, I really don't know (I'm a novice..).
So, I've sharpened this chain at least 10 times, and swapped it out for a new chain. Should I save it? I had actually thrown it in the trash, and took it out for these pics...
It still cut fine (to me, anyway..) but I'm just "following orders", like a good soldier.
Rich
Sidecarflip
Addicted to ArboristSite
I dress them (I don't hand file any of mine, always machine grind them) until I reach the 'witness mark' that is present on most chainsaw teeth and when I reach that mark, the mark is indicative of enough tooth left that the chance of a tooth breaking off from snagging something in the cut is still only a remote possibility, once past the mark, the teeth are wea to the point where failure can be an issue.
That witness mark is also used as a guide concerning tooth grind angle but you already know that or should at least.
When I grind a loop, prior to grinding, I look at the loop and find the most damaged tooth and start there with grinding, but grinding only enough to remove the buggered up part and then grind the rest of the loop to that dimension both left and right teeth I might add and then if necessary, I grind the rakers to 0.020 if required.
Takes me a long time to get to that point I might add and I have no idea how many times I sharpen a loop, never counted them but I have to presume at least 10-15 times and that all depends on the pitch of the loop as well. There is a lot more 'tooth' on a say 404 loop than there is on a lo-pro loop.
Far as depth gages are concerned, I tend to use a raker gage and grind them 0.020 because the lower the rakers are the harder the saw has to work simply because the the raker (depth gage) is what allows the tooth to take a bite and the bigger the bite, the more power the chain requires from the powerhead.
I grind my rakers as well. One of my chain grinders is set up expressly for grinding depth gages (rakers). I use a wide CBN wheel on the grinder with the head laid over at the angle I need to cut the rakers and leave a 'ramp' on them.
I very rarely 'booger' a chain simply because I'm careful about what I'm cutting and never stick a chain in the dirt either.
When it comes to customers chains (I sharpen a lot of chains that don't belong to me), all bets are off on them and I remove enough tooth to render the chain useable again and cut the rakers if necessary as well. Least I've educated my customers to put their dull chains in a bucket of motor oil because if I get a customer loop where the drive links are rusty, that chain goes in the scrap bin. Rusty drivers will quickly destroy a bar.
What and how I do it works for me, but may not work for you. I own multiple chain grinders btw.
That witness mark is also used as a guide concerning tooth grind angle but you already know that or should at least.
When I grind a loop, prior to grinding, I look at the loop and find the most damaged tooth and start there with grinding, but grinding only enough to remove the buggered up part and then grind the rest of the loop to that dimension both left and right teeth I might add and then if necessary, I grind the rakers to 0.020 if required.
Takes me a long time to get to that point I might add and I have no idea how many times I sharpen a loop, never counted them but I have to presume at least 10-15 times and that all depends on the pitch of the loop as well. There is a lot more 'tooth' on a say 404 loop than there is on a lo-pro loop.
Far as depth gages are concerned, I tend to use a raker gage and grind them 0.020 because the lower the rakers are the harder the saw has to work simply because the the raker (depth gage) is what allows the tooth to take a bite and the bigger the bite, the more power the chain requires from the powerhead.
I grind my rakers as well. One of my chain grinders is set up expressly for grinding depth gages (rakers). I use a wide CBN wheel on the grinder with the head laid over at the angle I need to cut the rakers and leave a 'ramp' on them.
I very rarely 'booger' a chain simply because I'm careful about what I'm cutting and never stick a chain in the dirt either.
When it comes to customers chains (I sharpen a lot of chains that don't belong to me), all bets are off on them and I remove enough tooth to render the chain useable again and cut the rakers if necessary as well. Least I've educated my customers to put their dull chains in a bucket of motor oil because if I get a customer loop where the drive links are rusty, that chain goes in the scrap bin. Rusty drivers will quickly destroy a bar.
What and how I do it works for me, but may not work for you. I own multiple chain grinders btw.
Rich, my being of very limited resources, I would definitely not throw that chain in the trash. Soak and clean it up and if you don't get anything more from it than a learning experience, it will pay for itself way many $$$$ worth than the cost of a chain. What sidecarflip says is also very important.
Learn to sharpen and perfect your technique with chains.
Lot's of beginner info about chains and sharpening here:
Also a good how to on the basics of what to aim for visually and the nuances of how to finesse the file methodically to attain a good sharp edge on every tooth. Watch how he slowly rotates the file as his hands " glides" the file till the edges of the plates get sharp, fixes any knocked off corners or rounded ( convex) edges and shoots for nice crisp straight plates and as sharp edge to the curve and even burrs just clinging to the edges at the moment of the tooth being sharp.
Learn to sharpen and perfect your technique with chains.
Lot's of beginner info about chains and sharpening here:
Also a good how to on the basics of what to aim for visually and the nuances of how to finesse the file methodically to attain a good sharp edge on every tooth. Watch how he slowly rotates the file as his hands " glides" the file till the edges of the plates get sharp, fixes any knocked off corners or rounded ( convex) edges and shoots for nice crisp straight plates and as sharp edge to the curve and even burrs just clinging to the edges at the moment of the tooth being sharp.
Bar maintenance too. Remember to flip your bar 50% of the times you cut. It will prolong life and keep cuts true.
I regularly true my bars & dress the rails & clean the groove every 4 sharpenings . Often I will flip the bar afterwards . I do not buy greasable roller tip bars , the winter grade bar oil I use annually migrates & effectively oils the roller tip adequately . I have never wore out a bar tip . I like his bar dresser , I will check it out online .
