RandyMac
Stiff Member
Yep, every week. There was an 8X8 standing on the lawn at the old ARCO office, that time of year, got 'em nicely polished.
Felling tree
- Thread starter KG441c
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Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
KG441c -- you have some guys with real pro experience commenting here.
You'll notice, almost all of them are alluding to the fact that a keyboard and a set of reading glasses will never replace being at a tree, watching, learning, listening, smelling, feeling. Actually touching a saw, feeling the tree move, etc.
Sure, the written word can teach, but at the end of the day -- words and the internet don't bring you home safe. Experience and the wisdom gleaned from those experiences do that.
I find old fallers (they've made it to "old" for a reason) --and I see if they're willing to show me things. Not tell me. . . Show me.
Even guys my age (near 40) can have some 15+ years on a saw, 6 days a week -- 270+ days a year. That equates to a buttload of time.
Find someone local that is known fir their experience. Tell them you want to learn, & you're willing to come pack gear, drag brush, whatever -- but you want some saw time and instruction in trade. You won't be working for free, you'll be getting paid in valuable experience and instruction.
Books are good, reading is good, videos are good -- but they represent an extremely small percentage of the knowledge you need to safely and successfully cut trees down.
You'll notice, almost all of them are alluding to the fact that a keyboard and a set of reading glasses will never replace being at a tree, watching, learning, listening, smelling, feeling. Actually touching a saw, feeling the tree move, etc.
Sure, the written word can teach, but at the end of the day -- words and the internet don't bring you home safe. Experience and the wisdom gleaned from those experiences do that.
I find old fallers (they've made it to "old" for a reason) --and I see if they're willing to show me things. Not tell me. . . Show me.
Even guys my age (near 40) can have some 15+ years on a saw, 6 days a week -- 270+ days a year. That equates to a buttload of time.
Find someone local that is known fir their experience. Tell them you want to learn, & you're willing to come pack gear, drag brush, whatever -- but you want some saw time and instruction in trade. You won't be working for free, you'll be getting paid in valuable experience and instruction.
Books are good, reading is good, videos are good -- but they represent an extremely small percentage of the knowledge you need to safely and successfully cut trees down.
Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
Running a saw is the easy part, a book will never prepare you for the many different aspects and elements.
Good luck.
KG441c
Keith
Being only a part time firewood cutter I doubt ill cut in a lifetime what some of u guys cut in a week. Looking for some basics and dos and donts and safety. I understand hands on experience is best and Ive been cutting trees all my life and have probably been lucky. Just interested in safety and proper terms and techniques. Thanks for all the input
KG441c
Keith
I do have a good friend who works for the FFS here in La. , but travels the US on fires. He would be my best bet Im sure
RandyMac
Stiff Member
This is a very serious subject.
ColdStihl
Now the leg, huh?
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Our resident pro's can tell you if this isn't on the right track, but the Husky website has a bunch of good chainsaw tips for the beginner. Videos, diagrams, etc.. Hey, it's a start I think.
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
Just be careful watching the cut too long. On a taller tree, the top will have moved several feet by the time you see the kerf start opening. Plenty of feet to have sent a widowmaker heading your way. Also, don't get complacent after it starts going the right direction. **** has a nasty habit of falling from the sky when you think you are safe. This applies mostly to when the tree is in the woods and will interact with other trees on the way down
bnmc98
ArboristSite Guru
watch the cut, watch the top, watch the cut, watch the top, watch the cut, watch the top, watch the cut, watch the top, watch the tree go down and don't turn your back on it
you have to do both. You won't know a barber chair by looking at the top, might be too late by the time you hear the crack... if it lets you know.
KG441c
Keith
Thats exactly why Ive been sending the tree on over with a wedge. For me its to easy being inexperienced to overcut the hinge especially with a ported 461
HuskStihl
Chairin'em for the sound
Well said
Don't leave too much of a hinge either. Using wedges is good and I'm a firm believer in them but too much wedging can break a hinge before you're ready for it. If your wedge isn't where it should be the hinge can break unevenly...one side before the other...and the tree will go sideways on you. Make sure the wedge is lifting straight and you're not putting any side load on the tree by wedging crooked. But...wedging crooked will sometimes help turn a tree a little if you combine it with a tapered hinge and maybe a dutchman.
You might want to fall a few with the basic cuts before you start trying any fancy stuff. The more intricate cuts are good to know but they don't always work, either.
I almost always use a wedge, especially if the wind is squirrely. A tree can sit down on your bar pretty quick and a wedge will help keep that from happening.
If you're cutting a fairly well balanced tree the wedge, combined with good cutting techniques, will help with falling it the direction you want it to go. Don't take it for granted that this will always work perfectly. If you're cutting a leaner, and you're falling to the lean, a wedge usually isn't necessary.
I wish that we could give you absolute answers, carved in stone and guaranteed to work in every situation. We can't. Stay aware of what the tree is doing. Stay focused. Don't dawdle around with your cuts but don't go balls-to-the-wall in every case, either.
Most of all, since you're not cutting for a living, ask yourself "do I really need to cut this tree?" If your gut tells you that it's dangerous or beyond your experience level your gut is probably right.
KG441c
Keith
Great advice. What r some determining factors for size of hinge? Ive considering marking the end of the facecut and the width of hinge I want with spray paint?
RandyMac
Stiff Member
I'm a hinge chaser.
zogger
Tree Freak
I used to be a skirt chaser....
bnmc98
ArboristSite Guru
I wouldn't recommend you engineer the tree down to the ground, forget the paint and ruler. eyeball it, you're going to see where your cuts are. The hinge is like a tool to be learned how it works and how to manipulate it to get what you want.
every tree is different, leave enough so it doesn't break off on you, doesn't take much on a healthy tree. Neutral stance trees will require more of the hinge to be cut to get it to tip usually, heavy leaners will start to go before you want them to, leaving too much wood and that can be bad. special cuts can overcome that. rotten wood, well, not much to say there, except, know what you are doing, and if you start to cut it, finish the job and don't leave it for some poor unsuspecting soul to get crushed by.
look for signs of rot, fungus, weak or sluffing bark, bug holes, cat faces, looks like its been standing dead for a while, etc... It doesn't take much to bore into a tree and check the chips.
if its a small tree and you are not falling against the lean and you have to pound wedges, your hinge is probably too thick.
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
not much i can add here, these guys got ya covered.
number one things i see people not doing right; open up the face; do not put the back cut under the face, better to be slightly over than under. yes use wedges but like Bob said, its not a cure all........nothing is...........be carefull and live........run from um all.
number one things i see people not doing right; open up the face; do not put the back cut under the face, better to be slightly over than under. yes use wedges but like Bob said, its not a cure all........nothing is...........be carefull and live........run from um all.
Words don't help though. You actually need a chainsaw
I know what Bob means though. Everybody starts somewhere and it always helps to know the theory but in the end practice and proper training is what gets things done properly and safely. Now I'm no pro faller despite falling around 40,000 trees and I do not pretend to be in the same league as guys that have fallen old growth as part of their daily job.
One thing that I have constantly seen with guys that have little practical experience is that they actually know how to fall a tree but they don't have any feel for where the bar is in the cut. Am I cutting through the hinge? Is the tree starting to sit back or go?
A common mistake is running the bar tip through the hinge on the far side which can often lead to the tree (if not balanced properly) tipping back over the faller. I actually saw this happen to a guy at a falling course that interestingly had worked with a tree crew (domestic) for many years. He was running a 394XP and had the tree fall back over him. He was very lucky that these trees were part of a windrow and the neighbouring tree held it partly up. He was that focussed on getting the jammed saw out he actually overlooked the fact that there was a tree falling towards him.
Sadly on the internet we have what are called "the lowest common denominators". That means that advice could be given to somebody who is very smart or sadly advice could be given to somebody that kills themselves tomorrow. For example a mate of mine came out falling with me all day and was watching everything I did with extreme interest. The next day he drops one of his own trees and smashes the neighbour's fence and shed. There are so many things taken into consideration when falling trees professionally that quite often it looks very easy to an outsider with little experience.
I have seen members here in the past post photos of trees that have barberchaired and actually believed they did a good job because they didn't get hurt.
My advice would be to read all the literature you can in regard to falling, watch as many videos on Youtube of true professionals who know what they are doing, and then find as many trees as you can to practice on where there is little risk to property or yourself. Small trees are actually good to practice on. I have sent numerous small trees the wrong way (not thinking!) but only one larger tree. In that case I overestimated just how much load the hinge could take on a hardwood leaner and tried to swing it in a direction it didn't naturally want to goAll of my errors have been my own fault although one was a sudden gust of wind on an otherwise calm day.
"Feel for where the bar is in the cut" is one of the most valuable things I've heard. It goes hand-in-hand with familiarity with your saw & using the "eyes on the ends of your fingertips". These are weaknesses in my abilities, so they really ring a bell, & help to remind me to prepare carefully & concentrate like crazy!
Thanks for the reminder!
Me too. Except when I'm not. Sometimes it's "screw the fiber pull, I'll long butt it, I'm outta here".
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
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