Filing Depth Gauges with Granberg Guide.

[dooby]

Yeah I unfortunately ran over my file n joint with my 973c (flat and little peices) and searched for a replacement which I found at Lowes. Used it once and now need another Granberg. Does anyone know if the Stihl one is any good. The Granberg I had was given to me by my father which was purchased I believe in the early 80's. Are the current ones the same quality?

They are not the same quality as in the 80's butt 101% better than Oregon's stuff. BB guns are that way, also. They look identical but they are lighter. The throw-away society that the rest of us have to compete with is .................:msp_angry::bang:

 

[jus2fat]

Yeah I unfortunately ran over my file n joint with my 973c (flat and little peices) and searched for a replacement which I found at Lowes. Used it once and now need another Granberg. Does anyone know if the Stihl one is any good. The Granberg I had was given to me by my father which was purchased I believe in the early 80's. Are the current ones the same quality?

Yes they are...You can probably buy at Northern Tools if you have one where you live..
(call and ask if they stock it..most do...but if not they can order and get to the store in a day or two)

Other option is to order from Bailey's..AS sponsor...but you will have to wait for shipping delivery.

J2F

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Must be user error.

I have a couple and they work just fine. They came from Lowe's and are mostly metal. Oregon brand. I keep one in each of the toolbags that go with the saw so we can sharpen in the field if needed. One of my guys never has used a saw or sharpened one (mainly runs the splitter, rakes up the yard, piles up branches, etc) I setup him up with the sharpener and 5 or 6 chains. He had them all done in under 20 mins and they were almost perfect.


I normally sharpen on a grinder at the shop, but sometimes don't have enough sharp chains and need to keep cutting. (the worst with yard trees, have had a few that were FULL of metal)

Kinda off the subject but for anyone thinking about a Granberg type sharpener don't waste your money on the Oregon branded one. It is made in China and is very loose and sloppy. Mostly plastic and just generally a POS.

 

[Philbert]

Kinda off the subject but for anyone thinking about a Granberg type sharpener don't waste your money on the Oregon branded one. It is made in China and is very loose and sloppy. Mostly plastic and just generally a POS.

Oregon sells 2 versions: the $20 - $25 (retail prices around here), and the $40 +/- one that is physically larger and mostly metal. Both appear to have been made by Tecomec in Italy, but were moved to China a year or so ago.

I don't mind the plastic file HOLDERS because I have had the pot metal ones crack. Glass-filled nylon would be better. But I agree that the plastic GUIDES flex too much.

I am on my phone, but if you search for "Granberg File Guide Revisited" there is a discussion and photos of many of the models.

EDIT: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-n-joint-revisited.193630/

Philbert

 

[CTYank]

Pix have been restored.

ST still there, expounding on desirability of pseudo precision of some depth-gauge filing guides. If .025" not enough, go for .030" as the cutters wear. Sheesh! Just look at the chips.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
Good quality pix. Just a couple things on the set up / operation. You need to center the chain clamp on the rivets, and the chain stop should be behind the heel of the tooth. When you go to file the rakers, file them in the same direction as you do on the cutting edge. So, file a RH tooth from left to right, and a LH tooth from right to left. You'll get much more uniform results, and your file will last way longer.
Regards
Gregg

 

[CTYank]

Howdy,
Good quality pix. Just a couple things on the set up / operation. You need to center the chain clamp on the rivets, and the chain stop should be behind the heel of the tooth. When you go to file the rakers, file them in the same direction as you do on the cutting edge. So, file a RH tooth from left to right, and a LH tooth from right to left. You'll get much more uniform results, and your file will last way longer.
Regards
Gregg

I've found, over about 35 yrs with that guide, that it is preferable to have the clamps grab along the rivet tops, so they can exert some downward force on the rivets (and the chain). Unless the chain is really taut, it can randomly lift a bit off the bar.

That height variation is especially suboptimum for doing depth gauges and not great for filing cutters either. Sorry, Gregg, but I see no reason to grab them lower.

About the chain stop, I much prefer to get double duty from it, with it sitting in a gullet. Serves as protection from file hitting edge of cutter. That also matches well with the location of the file, sitting flat. Sitting the back of a cutter against the stop would work fine for knocking down the TOP of the CUTTER.

Maybe you could talk to the folks at Granberg about publishing directions that help folks?

 

[gunnusmc03]

You have it right Ctyank, the rails are supposed to be placed just above the rivets to help keep the chain from riding up when filing.

 

[Philbert]

I've found, . . .that it is preferable to have the clamps grab along the rivet tops, so they can exert some downward force on the rivets (and the chain).

+1

This is the advantage of the 'File-N-Joint', versus the earlier 'File-N-Guide'.

+1 on the instructions too!

Philbert

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
I found this but, I'm not sure if it's from Granberg. Maybe somebody will come along who's just purchased one and post the recent instructions. These instructions say to clamp over the rivets but, clearly shows it clamped above the rivets. The problem with clamping above the rivets especially with smaller pitches is that there is virtually nothing to bite on to, and as soon as the guide clamps wear a little, you've got no bite at all. Clamping above the rivets has as much potential to lift the guide as it does holding the chain down if you hit a snag while advancing the chain.
Regards
Gregg

 

[gunnusmc03]

The FNJ does have it's limitations Grande Dog. If you are clamping on the rivets (versus over/above) you might as well loosen to clamp up and not use that feature because it has nothing to lock on to.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
I'm aware of the limitations, and the biggest one is a worn bar. Let's face it, these are made for entry level operators. Nothing wrong with that, and at best they're a training tool for free hand filing. I worked on promoting them to the USFS as a training tool. They liked them because a trainee could use it with little instruction, and could be free handing it in no time at all. I've been selling these things for well over 30 years, and I've talked hundreds of people away from the ledge who's bought one. Realistically, if your using one to set your rakers, you're wasting time. To each his own.
Regards
Gregg

 

[zogger]

I don't have one of these things yet, nor a grinder..

Tell ya what I want, I don't think it exists but it might..I want a hand filer that will do half a dozen to a dozen cutters *at once*. Clamp everything up, a few good strokes..a big piece of the chain is done on that side. It's the one.....cutter....at....a...time that bugs me about chain filing.

edit...a freehand multi file holder seems doable to make, fairly easily, thinking about it right now..

 

[CTYank]

Howdy,
I'm aware of the limitations, and the biggest one is a worn bar. Let's face it, these are made for entry level operators. Nothing wrong with that, and at best they're a training tool for free hand filing. I worked on promoting them to the USFS as a training tool. They liked them because a trainee could use it with little instruction, and could be free handing it in no time at all. I've been selling these things for well over 30 years, and I've talked hundreds of people away from the ledge who's bought one. Realistically, if your using one to set your rakers, you're wasting time. To each his own.
Regards
Gregg

Everyone's entitled to his opinion. Most important (to me) is what that opinion is based on. Pushing "free-handing" raises questions. As an ex-machinist, precision is much preferred over guesstimation.

Now, realistically, a FNJ is capable of sharpening chains razor-sharp with so little metal removal, that I almost never have to touch the depth gauges. When I do, it's surely not a waste of time, IMO. It's a small amount of time well invested.

Always carry one in my kit bag, and two files.

No need to be condescending.

 

[Philbert]

Tell ya what I want, I don't think it exists but it might..I want a hand filer that will do half a dozen to a dozen cutters *at once*. Clamp everything up, a few good strokes..a big piece of the chain is done on that side.

Reminds me of something we tried in sixth grade to write, "I will not misbehave in class" 100 times. Taped 6 pencils to a ruler . . . .

Philbert

 

[zogger]

Reminds me of something we tried in sixth grade to write, "I will not misbehave in class" 100 times. Taped 6 pencils to a ruler . . . .

Philbert

Ya, doesn't seem too hard in theory. Couple of pieces of small bar stock, drill holes to fit the file ends, cut in half long ways, add a couple cross holes for wingnut tightening. Two ends, some cross pieces to hold it together, and handles. File hold down hole spacing would be the most important, have to measure that pretty darn carefully.

 

[Philbert]

File hold down hole spacing would be the most important, have to measure that pretty darn carefully.

And then there is 'chain stretch' . . .

Philbert

 

[zogger]

And then there is 'chain stretch' . . .

Philbert

That's true. Hmm..when advancing, set files in cutters where they would fit, wiggle it around a scosh to get that set, then lock chain down by the drive links.

 

[Grande Dog]

Howdy,
My apologies that my post came off as condescending. This certainly wasn't my intent. I've been trying to think of an analogy that would relate to a machinist, and having a hard time of it because everything they do is exacting. I guess the best thing I can come up with is tolerance. Sawchain is pretty forgiving with inconsistencies. However people choose to sharpen their chain, they should be at ease with it, because when you're using it you really don't need to be thinking about whether you used the right method.
Regards
Gregg

 

[Philbert]

I like the Granberg type jigs for getting sharp, consistent teeth. I think that a simple, drop-type gauge is simpler, faster, easier, and at least as effective for setting depth gauges.

Philbert