Found a decent deal on an 044

[fatjoe]

I wish someone else would chime in.All the 044`s I`ve done had a bushing on that side in which the seal sealed against.Also, the seals I did on that side were all flush or sticking OUT just a bit, never recessed like yours is.Not all had the rubber ring, just the oldest, but all did have a bushing that slid over the crank.Maybe your 044 is a different model.

 

[fatjoe]

Do a search for 044 clutch side bushing.There is a Bushing that goes on that side.The seal will not seal until that bushing is installed.There is also an o-ring.Check into it before you proceed.I do think your seal might bee in too far also.There is not a lot of room there.I just don`t want you to have any problems.

 

[USMC0802]

Do a search for 044 clutch side bushing.There is a Bushing that goes on that side.The seal will not seal until that bushing is installed.There is also an o-ring.Check into it before you proceed.I do think your seal might bee in too far also.There is not a lot of room there.I just don`t want you to have any problems.

How about a part number? Also, with the pressure/vacuum test, there's absolutely nothing between the case and the cylinder right now, so I doubt it would hold a seal. I'd like to get this question over the clutch side seal straightened out and then check the press/vac test.

 

[fatjoe]

I don`t know a part number.Use the search function.Punch in 044 clutch side bushing.Three posts come up.The third post has an ipl and a discussion about the o ring and the bushing/spacer.You and Poge, were talking about a Vacuum test.That seal will leak the way it is.i also believe it is in too far.I think it is touching the bearing.

 

[USMC0802]

I don`t know a part number.Use the search function.Punch in 044 clutch side bushing.Three posts come up.The third post has an ipl and a discussion about the o ring and the bushing/spacer.You and Poge, were talking about a Vacuum test.That seal will leak the way it is.i also believe it is in too far.I think it is touching the bearing.

I try the search function here, but I got nothing on the Google function.

This is talking about the bushing for the worm gear.
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19864&highlight=044+clutch+side+bushing

 

[fatjoe]

Yes, thats the bushing I`ve been talkng about.The seal seats on that bushing.

 

[Brian13]

I think this might be the other thread.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121403&highlight=044+clutch

 

[fatjoe]

putting that bushing in allows you to guage how far in the seal needs to be.Some model 044`s call for a o-ring also.Part number96459451170.My point is, you should be putting that bushing in now, while you have access to the seal.It`s the bushing that the seal seals against.

 

[USMC0802]

Yes, thats the bushing I`ve been talkng about.The seal seats on that bushing.

putting that bushing in allows you to guage how far in the seal needs to be.Some model 044`s call for a o-ring also.Part number96459451170.My point is, you should be putting that bushing in now, while you have access to the seal.It`s the bushing that the seal seals against.

I see what you're saying, but when I pulled the oil pump, the bushing was outboard from the seal. I'll check the service manual.

 

[fatjoe]

That bushing is supposed to fit tight against the flared part of the crank.the seal does seal around it.I also did some checking, and a few different posts mention the seal only being installed flush with the race.Recessed and it will certainly rub on the bearings.It is best to tackle this now instead of when it`s all together.

 

[fatjoe]

I see what you're saying, but when I pulled the oil pump, the bushing was outboard from the seal. I'll check the service manual.

That very well may have been the demise of the saw.

 

[USMC0802]

That bushing is supposed to fit tight against the flared part of the crank.the seal does seal around it.I also did some checking, and a few different posts mention the seal only being installed flush with the race.Recessed and it will certainly rub on the bearings.It is best to tackle this now instead of when it`s all together.

I was going on the it goes back together the way it came apart, but whoever assembled this thing before me didn't do it right. The service manual clearly indicates that the bushing for the oil pump worm gear goes on first against the bearing and the seal goes over that.

Good thing I posted pictures. Now, how do I pull this seal without ruining it. I don't want to have to order a new gasket set from Bailey's for a single seal.

 

[fatjoe]

Good question.Try Private messaging pioneerguy.I`m sure it will come out fairly easy.The good thing is you can get a hook type tool in there because it not sealed against anything.Something hooked but not sharp.Take your time, maybe try it tomorrow after you think about it.I might have an extra seal you can have.I`ll check tomorrow.Pioneerguy has always responded to me.Take your time, we`ll get it figured out.

 

[USMC0802]

Good question.Try Private messaging pioneerguy.I`m sure it will come out fairly easy.The good thing is you can get a hook type tool in there because it not sealed against anything.Something hooked but not sharp.Take your time, maybe try it tomorrow after you think about it.I might have an extra seal you can have.I`ll check tomorrow.Pioneerguy has always responded to me.Take your time, we`ll get it figured out.

Very interesting that the o-ring on page 76 of the service manual, as seen here (image from the thread Brian posted a few back) in the middle top image on the page, isn't on the IPL anywhere that I have.

I bought the Lisle seal puller, but I don't think that's going to work without tearing the rubber.

 

[USMC0802]

I sent Pioneerguy600 a PM for assistance. I'm wondering how much the seal is at the dealer. If it's only a couple bucks, maybe I'll just go grab one tomorrow so I can move forward with the build over the weekend.

Also noticed there isn't an o-ring in the base of the bushing.

 

[Brian13]

I got my seal for 15$ at the dealer. I think I have got a little lost here. Are we saying that the bushing goes under the seal?

 

[USMC0802]

I got my seal for 15$ at the dealer. I think I have got a little lost here. Are we saying that the bushing goes under the seal?

Yes. When starting reassembly, on the clutch side, the first thing that goes on the crankshaft against the bearing is the worm gear bushing with an o-ring in the wider end which is recessed on the inside. Then the oil seal goes over top of that.

Check out page 46 of the service manual in the section "Replacing the oil seals."

Clutch side:
- Apply the puller (with jaws 3.1) and
withdraw the oil seal at the clutch side.
Note: When using the puller make sure
that it does not damage the crankshaft
surface, especially in the area of the oil
seals.
- Slip the oil pump spacer bush without
0-ring (large diameterfirst) over the
crankshaft.
- Coat the sealing lip of the oil seal
with lubricating grease - see 12.2.
- Push the oil seal over the spacer
bush. Open side of oil seal must
face the crankcase.
- Remove the spacer bush and press
home the oil seal with the press
sleeve.

However, I'm not sure how you'd remove the spacer bushing and then pess the seal home...

 

[Brian13]

Ok, now I remember, for a second I could not remember doing that at all. I was getting scared for a minute. I am on the same page now. I also read on one of those two threads posted earlier that you should put a little grease in the bushing to help the seal. I dont know if you will be able to remove the seal with out harming it. If you have some paint keys and a two bolt puller you could try that. The pain keys are pretty blunt and might do it, but I would plan on needing a new seal.

 

[USMC0802]

Ok, now I remember, for a second I could not remember doing that at all. I was getting scared for a minute. I am on the same page now. I also read on one of those two threads posted earlier that you should put a little grease in the bushing to help the seal. I dont know if you will be able to remove the seal with out harming it. If you have some paint keys and a two bolt puller you could try that. The pain keys are pretty blunt and might do it, but I would plan on needing a new seal.

Pioneerguy600 also suggests planning on a new seal. I guess I'll grab that tomorrow so I can keep moving. Hopefully it's in stock.

Sucks I'll pay $15 for it when a complete seal and gasket set is less than $10 at Bailey's.

 

[Brian13]

If it makes you feel better, by the time I finished my first rebuild I spent about double or better of the value of the saw. I learned a lot about rebuilding top ends. If all you have to replace is the seal your doing pretty good.