Free climbing?

[MasterBlaster]

I LOVE my Big Shot!!! I've had it only a couple of weeks now and I get better every time I use it. Its already saved me a lot of climbing. Like my trusty Gibbs, I'll never go without a BS again!

Alas, I do body thrust. I don't see what the big deal is about it, ain't nutten to it.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It's best to have all the tools at your disposal, and know when to use what.
I mostly throw my bag, but use the bigshot for harder shots. Some trees I can just look at and know it'll be faster to climb and set the line.
I do some work for a guy, who had a die hard fling and zinger work for him for a while. Sometimes it worked great, but his guy didn't know when to quit. Even though the guy was a great climber, his production was way off, always futzing with his fancy tools.
That is where the fling and zing guys sometimes lose, they gotta learn what works best and when.

I don't really care about this topic, I just want to build Jimmy's thread.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
most of us have gotten just a tad more efficient with the BigShot after a year's practice.
Yeah, I have too; got one right after you left. It's very useful on some trees, but not on most if you are proficient with other ascension technology like ladders , monkeyfist, polesaw. If you don't want to use those and fling on almost every tree that's your business. Maybe we can have a TCC of our own and time our ascent on a range of trees.
you cling to your backwards, inefficient methods.

Pitiful, isn't it?
You're quick and nimble and flinging may be more accurate and coiling may be faster, but still I think the backwards methods would get me to the top faster on average. If it doesn't I'll enjoy the ascent more as I stop and smell the lichens

 

[jimmyq]

thanks Mike, you're an ego booster.

 

[Stumper]

Go Paul! Have you done the dangle yet?

 

[Ax-man]

I got no problem with with being secured at all times while accending .

I have a problem every once in a while of not being able to be tied in with the lanyard every time while making a chain saw cut, due to being in an odd position that can hinder you or run the risk of cutting the lanyard.

Any one else run into this type of situation and willing to fess up they can't always follow the rules all the time.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Ax-man
I have a problem every once in a while of not being able to be tied in with the lanyard every time while making a chain saw cut, due to being in an odd position that can hinder you or run the risk of cutting the lanyard.

The standard is to be tied in twice, not tied in with a short lanyard, when making a chainsaw cut. To avoid hindrance, a longer lanyard or a short climbing line can be used to double secure.

This standard is one I pay attention to for safety reasons as much or even more than the one that says when the three-point technique is OK. Also using a short line makes redirects so much easier, to get into a good position to make a clean cut with any saw. Good tip reduction pruning is often impossible without use of a short line and a telescoping polesaw/pruner.

 

[Tree Machine]

tying in twice

I didn't used to tie in twice every time I fired up the saw, but I've modified my technique to to do so at least almost all the time. Now, though, I am very aware and self criticize myself if I'm only secured at one point (on rope, w/ no flipline).

You may want to try a flipline with safety snaps at both ends. It allows more tie-in versatility, more possible tie-in configurations for different situations, and the freedom and level of tree gymnastics you demand. -TM-

 

[jimmyq]

Stumper, not yet, have to wait till after Christmas and buy myself some climbing rope, after that, "See you at the top!"

 

[MasterBlaster]

Doing TDs I tie in twice. Always.


Trimming? Never. I may use my lanyard as an additional aid to positioning myself.

 

[Ax-man]

Guy,

You misunderstood me. I'm always tie in with the climbing line, it's being tied in twice, all the time, for every chain saw cut is where I have a problem every once in a while.

I am very conscience of the rules of being tied in twice while making a chain saw cut. I have pretty much broken myself of those early day habits of not tieing in twice when using a chain saw. But there are a few times I break the rule, but try to figure out a way to do it right should it come up in the future.

TM

I've tried the two ended snap lanyard, didn't really care for it first time out. Maybe I'll give it a whirl again.

I've also toyed with the idea of the 20 to 25 ft lanyard. I use a 12 ft. now, but have been using all the length of it to help gain more mobility on limbs, I can see where the longer length can be an advantage in the right tree.

 

[MasterBlaster]

So the reason you guys have such long lanyards is to use it as a 2nd climb line? Knot and everything?

I've always just used the tail of my rope.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

This is one of the rules that makes more sense to follow because it just makes good sense than becase its written in the Z133.

Jeff Jepson was doing some minor pruning when the saw jumped and cut his line. If he would have had a second tie in he wouldn't have fallen and we might not have the Tree Climber's Companion now.

I find it much easier to use a long lanyard than to pull up the tail of my rope. If you use an access line to get into the tree you could hang the second, short rope, from the access line along with the chain saw and retrieve it for the few times either are needed. No need to drag heavy gear around.

Read 7.2.8:
Arborists shall use a second point of attachment[work positioning lanyard or double-crotched rope] when operating a chainsaw in a tree, unless the employer demonstrates that a greater hazard is posed by using the second point of attachment while operating chain saws in that particular situation.

So, it's only the employer that can allow climbers to not use the second tie in. It's encouraging to hear so many people pausing and considering when they opt to not use a second attachment.

This situation is approached much differently in the UK. Along with their Training and Assessment program they are taught how to position themselves if they find that they need to be single attached. That said, there are only RARE instances when a climber can really say that a second tie in will be exposed to "...a greater hazard..." I'd like to know if anyone can share what they would call a "greater hazard" in order to slip through the loophole.

Tom

 

[Ax-man]

M B

That is the advantage I'm seeing.

Double crotching requires pulling rope, making bowline and taut line bridge, then you have to untie the whole mess.

Double crotching has it's place no doubt, but the long lanyard makes more sense, not to mention speed and ease of set up.

Unless your doing some thing different with the tail of your rope??

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by Ax-man


Unless your doing some thing different with the tail of your rope??

Nope, thats pretty much how I do it. Retrieving the tail is not much of a problem because I climb mostly with my short rope. Untieing the 'mess' ain't nothing.

I hardly ever use my 120' rope anymore.

 

[Joe]

Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
I'd like to know if anyone can share what they would call a "greater hazard" in order to slip through the loophole.

Tom

A tree that is hung in another tree.

Joe

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
I climb mostly with my short rope. I hardly ever use my 120' rope anymore.

Me neither! The short rope works well, but if there's a doubt the big rope's tied on the tail or snapped on my side.

Hey Axman I know you're always tied in. Sorry if I was confusing. Happens a lot.

And Tom I can't think of a second tie-in creating a hazard. Sometimes you have to move away from a cut, so a short lanyard will keep you where you don't want to be. But you can always use a longer rope for a second tie-in.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i would think that even 'free climbing' that someone helping on belay, can make sense outta popping a line in, let alone being sure you're going home in your bed that night as stated.


When needing a quick ditchable situation, cut and slide behind something as hinge steers etc.; but then i usually go 1/2 legal and choke lanyard in rather than basket giving more reach to 19' lanyard, or choke Lifeline redirect sling in, then lanyard in single leg support position; giving me 20' of leash, not as good as basket support of lanyard, but better than nothing, when can't on the spot, figure out how to safely follow book. In Joe's scenario, i've gotten bucket, passed or put in 2 lines.

1 trick i found is to lace lanyard under horizontal etc. log standing on, set, tighten up with knees bent, then straighten legs to give good stable support against the very tightened lines compressing me into log.

Lanyard and snap, also good at 'Boomeranging' back around to you, can also catch/deliver lines to you as it does. Aluminum snap has enough throw weight for me, unlike aluminum carabiners.

 

[Tree Machine]

Just did this a couple times today

but then i usually go 1/2 legal and choke lanyard in rather than basket giving more reach

I do this fairly regularly, but only when I don't expect to actually put any weight on the chokered flipline. It's there for a second tie-in, not necessarily a suspension point. Flipping the lanyard around an adjacent limb and clipping it back to itself has its place amongst your tie-in strategies.

Since chainsaws are right-handed, and if your cut will be done off the right side of your body, this is where a double-ended flipline comes in handy - do as above, but first unclip it from the right side D, and clip onto the left. That way if you have to make a terminal reach, the flipline's not coming across your belly, twisting you left and robbing you of a belly's length of lanyard. -TM-

 

[jimmyq]

ok, so I snuck into the store and got me a 50 foot length of 1/2" -16 strand and a 10 foot length of prussik cord (8mm accessories cord). should be short enough rope to keep me from going too high. Staring at my climbers companion practicing my knots, hope to get a dangle in on the weekend at my parents place in their london plane or out back in the Linden.. also bought a pole pruner/saw (not the zubat pole , thats for spring when I have some money..) so I can borrow an orchard ladder and take care of the small gleditsia that started this whole thread for me. thanks again for all the input folks !