Gas life?

[ammoaddict]

I am wondering the life span of gas.
I have a gallon I bought during the summer so it’s probably 7 months old. It’s 91 octane, no ethanol and had 50:1 red armor oil added to it along with a cap full of seafoam and the proper amount of fuel stabilizer (red Stabil). It’s been sealed tightly in a gallon metal can (the stihl motomix metal can).

I’ve never thought twice about using gas like this because Stabil states gas is good for 1 year when treated but I’ve read old gas can cause piston damage. Gas is cheap. Rebuilding a saw, not so much.

How long will you store gas in this condition?

Toss it every time I’m not going to use it for a while or do you think it’s ok?

Do you run Stabil in your gas if you’re just a homeowner and don’t go through that much?

Let’s hear your thoughts.
-Ryan

I just started a husqvarne 50 chainsaw yesterday that has been sitting for almost 2 years with 90 rec gas, amsoil saber and seafoam. It started in 6 pulls and ran just as good as it ever has. I don't have a problem using 2 year old rec fuel. I don't use ethanol fuel in any of my small engines anymore. I wouldn't trust it over 3 months old.

 

[jblnut]

While we are at it, how long should diesel last ?

With a decent treatment it should go 5-10yrs like others have stated.

I use chemtech diesel treatment.

Same here. It goes in the 5k farm barrel when it gets filled in the spring. We have a filtration/stir system that filters water and anything out that doesn’t belong. We run it on a timer from spring through fall and rarely over winter as the barrel will be a big jelly jar when it’s cold out. The filter/stir system is also the fill system so we just grab the nozzle and start filling it when it’s running and we get filtered and clean diesel every time. It’s a nice simple setup.

As far as saw gas goes ….. Red armor at 32:1 - 40:1 depending on what it’s going in. E0 only with nothing else. I’ve got an 041 that Pops purchased new and we use weekly and it runs like a champ. Been gone through a few times but everything has been replaced due to normal wear and not scoring from fuel issues. Love that saw.

 

[Sidecarflip]

Like I said, there are a number of Biocide treatments out there, the telling fact is, they have to have the required MSDS label on them. Just so happens that I use Bio-Kleen because it's readily available here.

I also have a 500 gallon ORD diesel tank on the farm. One thing I do is, I'll drain off the bottom of the tank regularly to remove any accumulated sludge. My supplier adds biocide to my diesel but I add additional biocide, just in case. You really cannot add too much but you can add too little.

My 30KW diesel fired standby genset also draws from my bulk tank and I added a Racor Fuel Polishing unit to it as well as both my farm tractors, just as added insurance. The Racor will remove ANY water as well as it filters down to 5 microns.

Nice thing about the Racor units is, the bottom of the filters all have a screw on clear bowl that you can easily observe any and all contaminants and drain them out very conveniently. Since installing them on the tractors 2 years ago, I have not changed the spin on fuel filters.

After I learned the hard way, I take no chances.

As any FYI, all new common rail ECM controlled Kubota tractors now come with fuel polishing units from the factory. Not sure of the brand, I just know they do. Remember, I work part time for a Kubota dealer so I get to see a ton of new units.

 

[SAWMIKAZE]

I have never seen seafoam remove carbon from a two stroke and I have inspected with a bore scope. On the contrary I believe it actually causes deposits.

Not in my experience.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Like I said, there are a number of Biocide treatments out there, the telling fact is, they have to have the required MSDS label on them. Just so happens that I use Bio-Kleen because it's readily available here.

I also have a 500 gallon ORD diesel tank on the farm. One thing I do is, I'll drain off the bottom of the tank regularly to remove any accumulated sludge. My supplier adds biocide to my diesel but I add additional biocide, just in case. You really cannot add too much but you can add too little.

My 30KW diesel fired standby genset also draws from my bulk tank and I added a Racor Fuel Polishing unit to it as well as both my farm tractors, just as added insurance. The Racor will remove ANY water as well as it filters down to 5 microns.

Nice thing about the Racor units is, the bottom of the filters all have a screw on clear bowl that you can easily observe any and all contaminants and drain them out very conveniently. Since installing them on the tractors 2 years ago, I have not changed the spin on fuel filters.

After I learned the hard way, I take no chances.

As any FYI, all new common rail ECM controlled Kubota tractors now come with fuel polishing units from the factory. Not sure of the brand, I just know they do. Remember, I work part time for a Kubota dealer so I get to see a ton of new units.

I added a Racor system and a CAT 2 micron filter to my little diesel after repeatedly getting dirty and contaminated fuel from local stations. Not an issue since, although I have had to drain water from the Racor a few times.

 

[ammoaddict]

Not in my experience.

Mine either. I put an ounce in every gallon I mix.

 

[bwalker]

4 gallon can of fuel, I put 1 ounce of green Stabil (marine Stabil) and 4 ounces of seafoam. One cleans the engine, the other stabilizes the fuel. I do the marine due to where I am and the humidity in the air.

And seafoam does do the trick in removing carbon deposits.
I had to get my spark plugs changed in my 2008 5.4 gas Ford engine with the spark plugs that would snap off in the engine block due to carbon buildup. Didn't want that so I emptied a bottle of seafoam into 10 gallons of fuel and then did it again on the way to the dealer for the change out. Dealer was impressed as to how easy they all came out, no carbon. Told him my experiment and now he recommends it to all that need the change out.

In the first case you are talking about a 4 cycle engine. A two stroke is a different animal.
In the second your assuming the plugs where full of carbon. You really have no idea.
I can say for certain that I have ran seafoam through two strokes and then checked them out internally with a bore scope and it did nothing.
I have also tried to use seafoam on 4cycle engine GDI deposits and again it did nothing.

 

[bwalker]

So it looks like the best is non ethanol fuel and just the red armor oil mixed together stored in a metal can with the cap on tight.

The stabilizer and cleaners do nothing and can cause the fuel to degrade faster? Maybe that’s up for debate.

I’ve read on here running your saw out of fuel can score the piston. Any truth behind that?

Stabil does something, but I do believe they are selling alot of sizzle and not much steak.
Seafoam contains alcohol, which will attract water and will make the fuel go bad sooner. That's not disputable.
I have ran plenty of saws put of fuel and never scored one, but I shut the saw down as soon as I sense it's running empty. I am sure some of the ham fist crew can figure out a way to seize them by running them out of fuel, but I would also bet a lean condition prior to running out is a factor.

 

[bwalker]

I am wondering the life span of gas.
I have a gallon I bought during the summer so it’s probably 7 months old. It’s 91 octane, no ethanol and had 50:1 red armor oil added to it along with a cap full of seafoam and the proper amount of fuel stabilizer (red Stabil). It’s been sealed tightly in a gallon metal can (the stihl motomix metal can).

I’ve never thought twice about using gas like this because Stabil states gas is good for 1 year when treated but I’ve read old gas can cause piston damage. Gas is cheap. Rebuilding a saw, not so much.

How long will you store gas in this condition?

Toss it every time I’m not going to use it for a while or do you think it’s ok?

Do you run Stabil in your gas if you’re just a homeowner and don’t go through that much?

Let’s hear your thoughts.
-Ryan

My advice would be to dump it in your truck.

 

[bwalker]

Not in my experience.

How did you verify this?
You do realize that Seafoam contains nothing that will remove carbon? Chemicals that remove carbon are pretty nasty and show up on a msds every time.
If you like pouring alcohol and a light napthenic oil in your saw have at it.

 

[OM617YOTA]

My advice would be to dump it in your truck.

Any doubts, rotate for sure. Don't take on any headaches over five bucks of fuel.

 

[capetrees]

In the first case you are talking about a 4 cycle engine. A two stroke is a different animal.
In the second your assuming the plugs where full of carbon. You really have no idea.
I can say for certain that I have ran seafoam through two strokes and then checked them out internally with a bore scope and it did nothing.
I have also tried to use seafoam on 4cycle engine GDI deposits and again it did nothing.

In the first case, I mix the fuel for the 2 stroke chainsaws. Since mixing, I've never had a problem with water in the fuels of gas aging out. And why would I put Stabil in a 4 stroke vehicle I use every day?

In the second case, the mechanics shop suggested the idea as a precaution and preclean as he's seen carbon on almost all of the plugs he had to remove and the ones that broke did so due to excessive carbon.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

This is how they list them online.

Ethanol gas 90 days and draws in moisture. Most folks try to use as quick as possible 2 weeks - 30 days.

E-free from pumps they say 6 months. But I have it stored in Gen and Boat much longer with never a issue. Gen even over a year with K100.

There is a simple test for checking Efree from pumps to make sure efree and was posted here in thread. Using food coloring.

Also like said above try to buy from pumps with it's own hose. If not pump a few gallons in car truck before can.

Some I just tested recently. See difference. How you can tell. Efree from pump and then e10 ethanol one

 

[stihltech]

Use it up in about 3 months. Problem solved, no extra expense.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

I did a test one time years back. Took some Berrymans B12 and took seafoam. Put carbon up pistons in each.

Guess which one removed the carbon and started dissolving it and turning the stuff black. Not seafoam barely even changed color. So I only use Berryman's B12 for soaking and cleaning carbon from old saws that come in now. Works great in them thin ring pistons helping clean grooves.

 

[ammoaddict]

I did a test one time years back. Took some Berrymans B12 and took seafoam. Put carbon up pistons in each.

Guess which one removed the carbon and started dissolving it and turning the stuff black. Not seafoam barely even changed color. So I only use Berryman's B12 for soaking and cleaning carbon from old saws that come in now. Works great in them thin ring pistons helping clean grooves.



View attachment 1149129

B12 is a strong cleaner/solvent. I have used it to clean carbs and carbon build up. I put some in an old echo 750 fuel tank and it started dissolving the paint. It was a sticky orange mess.
I use seafoam as a fuel system cleaner, it does a good job for that, it's not as strong and you can run it all the time. I don't use it as a decarbonizer. With good fuel, oil, proper tuning and running of the saw, it shouldn't get much carbon build up.

 

[JoshNY]

I'm not a fan of Seafoam, I've seen a study that it actually decreased the shelf life of gas.
If you look at the msds, the ingredients are 40-60% pale oil, 25-35% naptha, and 10-20% isopropyl alcohol.
So you buy ethanol free gas and then add alcohol back in anyways by adding Seafoam.

I run ethanol free 90 or 91octane gas and Amsoil Saber 2 stroke oil and have no problem with it keeping a year. I have had it as old as 18 months without issue.

 

[Hermio]

I am wondering the life span of gas.
I have a gallon I bought during the summer so it’s probably 7 months old. It’s 91 octane, no ethanol and had 50:1 red armor oil added to it along with a cap full of seafoam and the proper amount of fuel stabilizer (red Stabil). It’s been sealed tightly in a gallon metal can (the stihl motomix metal can).

I’ve never thought twice about using gas like this because Stabil states gas is good for 1 year when treated but I’ve read old gas can cause piston damage. Gas is cheap. Rebuilding a saw, not so much.

How long will you store gas in this condition?

Toss it every time I’m not going to use it for a while or do you think it’s ok?

Do you run Stabil in your gas if you’re just a homeowner and don’t go through that much?

Let’s hear your thoughts.
-Ryan

I use Amsoil and Sta-bil with E10 fuel. Never had a fuel-related problem. I go up to 9 months storage.

 

[Sidecarflip]

I added a Racor system and a CAT 2 micron filter to my little diesel after repeatedly getting dirty and contaminated fuel from local stations. Not an issue since, although I have had to drain water from the Racor a few times.

Much easier to do as well. Just open the drain **** on the bottom of the clear bowl on the Racor and let it out. Been using IFJF spin on filters on mine. Less expensive than the Racor filters and according to independent tests, actually filter a bit better than the OEM cartridges. I have the optional bowl heaters on mine though I never wired the up. Got them just in case. I will say they remove all the water and any crud as well. The issue with mine was placement of the unit between the cab and the loader frame on my big ag Kubota's. I wound up drilling and tapping (with my MAG drill), mounting holes in the stationary loader upright but not where they were in the way anything that could impact them.

What sold me on them was the fact that every ship with diesel power has at least one or more for each fuel tank. Pretty much SOP for diesel powered boats.

Again, what I really like is the fact that I no longer have to renew primary fuel (engine mounted) fuel filters or deal with the secondary mesh filter attached to the engine itself, which is in my case a PITA to access. Going to put one on my diesel pickup truck as well. I believe they are an excellent alternative to contaminated fuel. Like I said, cost me a grand in replacement parts years ago.

 

[Sidecarflip]

My personal preference with any and all gasoline is: I only use blue/green Marine Stabil, not the red stinky stuff and no seafoam at all. Only thing I use Seafoam for is cleaning the intake tract on my Ford GDI engine and it's CAT converter and I do the same with my wife's Suburban to clean it's Cat, and that is via direct application post MAF sensor because Seafoam will destroy a heated MAF sensor and I never use seafoam in my diesel farm tractors or my pickup truck. It's a good solvent and it's overly expensive. I'd never use it in any chainsaw, but then I only run canned fuel anyway and in my case, Echo, Red Armor 50-1 except when breaking in a new saw, then it's Tru-Fuel, 40-1 for the first couple tanks and never Stihl canned fuel or Stihl Pre-mix as I've read on here and elsewhere that the Stihl pre mix promotes carbon buildup in the exhaust port and muffler, mainly the spark arrestor screen, that may or may not be true and I cannot say because I don't use it anyway. All I know is my spark arrestor screen stays carbon free. and when I remove the mufflers and peer into the port, I have no score marks on the piston and that includes my 45+ year old 028, which is probably going to need new crank seals shortly as things do wear out eventually and most likely a new impulse and fuel hoses as well.

I do use Archoil Nano-Borate oil additive in all my engines and have for years. I will say it keeps the internals very clean. I had to replace the injector and glo plug harness on my 1997 F350 7.3 Navistar diesel in my truck last year and upon removal of the valve covers (100K miles), there was no sludge or buildup on the top of the heads, in fact it was as clean as when new. My tractors get it too and last time I had the shop adjust the valves, I was there when they pulled the overhead cover and same deal. Nothing in the way of deposits or sludge on top of the head or in the valve cover itself and that was at 4000 and 6000 hours respectively. Even the tech was amazed at how clean it was. That is the Nano-Borate additive I use with every oil change. Modern multi grade synthetic oils (I use Shell Rotella T6 5-40) exclusively, tend to leave behind a bronze colored deposit on internal engine parts. I don't get any of that either.