get together this weekend

[HELSEL]

Great ideas about fueling the saws and quarantining them Bob. I`ll be the impartial fueler and I`ll also tweak the carbs while I`m at it.

On a more serious not however, what sense does a chain race make? Are we really supposed to believe that Marky makes his own chain or that Gypo could make his chain that good without a $2,000 grinder? If you guys want to have a chain race, let`s do it like The Game of Logging does. Everybody starts with an equally blunted round filed chain, then field sharpens it and makes time cuts. Some of the boys with West Coast connections and fat bank rolls are going to get their ***** handed to them. I`ll bet $5k of Simon`s money on this!

Dennis, as sincerely as I`m your buddy when I talk to you on the phone I`m still your buddy now, but the endless allusion to Gypo or Marky being equipment underdogs at the "ehp show" is getting old and lame.

Russ

A chain race,When is this gonna take place? I will let Cliff know.


WEBSTER BOUND

 

[jokers]

A chain race,When is this gonna take place? I will let Cliff know.




WEBSTER BOUND

That`s great Rick, I`d love to meet the legend in person, shoot, I`d even like to meet you in person.

 

[Simonizer]

That`s great Rick, I`d love to meet the legend in person, shoot, I`d even like to meet you in person.

Are Silvey grinders the best? Are there better machines?

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

On a more serious not however, what sense does a chain race make?

Dennis, as sincerely as I`m your buddy when I talk to you on the phone I`m still your buddy now, but the endless allusion to Gypo or Marky being equipment underdogs at the "ehp show" is getting old and lame. Russ

...."what sense does a chain race make?" Come on Russ...get your head out of ehp's a$$! A chain race "could" make you build a chain of your own. Gypo has, and how do his chains cut? $2000 grinder, at least he made his own chain, and Marky wasn't even at the last gtg with those expensive chains.

Getting old and lame? So are these staged gtg's. All but a couple of saws and chains were ehp's. This gas thing is a joke too! You guy's are so suspicious it's pathetic. I have work saws with heads, and they will cut all day? So, who came up with those rules? Hahaha! We all know who, and why, don't we? You guy's have gotten has chicken as the Rupley's. buddy Dennis

 

[HELSEL]

...."what sense does a chain race make?" Come on Russ...get your head out of ehp's a$$! A chain race "could" make you build a chain of your own. Gypo has, and how do his chains cut? $2000 grinder, at least he made his own chain, and Marky wasn't even at the last gtg with those expensive chains.

Getting old and lame? So are these staged gtg's. All but a couple of saws and chains were ehp's. This gas thing is a joke too! You guy's are so suspicious it's pathetic. I have work saws with heads, and they will cut all day? So, who came up with those rules? Hahaha! We all know who, and why, don't we? You guy's have gotten has chicken as the Rupey's. buddy Dennis

Good job Dennis.. I agree 100%

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Everybody starts with an equally blunted round filed chain, then field sharpens it and makes time cuts. Russ

If this happens...Russ you won't have a chance...ChainsawMarty will be kicking some serious A$$!


Hahaha!

 

[jokers]

...."what sense does a chain race make?" Come on Russ...get your head out of ehp's a$$! A chain race "could" make you build a chain of your own. Gypo has, and how do his chains cut? $2000 grinder, at least he made his own chain, and Marky wasn't even at the last gtg with those expensive chains.

This is exactly why I suggested the type of chain race that I did. It would involve a skill vs someone setting up(or having someone else set up) a grinder and going to town. I don`t mean to suggest that having a Pro Sharp will automatically make you a chain builder but it sure is a step up from anything else out there and you can`t refute that. Gypo`s chains cut very well and Gypo is a good operator, just that he`s not the only guy who can have a good run and it has nothing to do with cutting 100mbf a week, or the 10mbf that Gypo cuts.

BTW, I would expect that Gypo would do very well in this competition, are you saying that he wouldn`t? I have no idea how Marky would do based on experience with him but I strongly suspect that he wouldn`t fair too well because I don`t think that he has filed too many chains in his lifetime.

Another BTW, the only GTG that I`ve been to that Marky also went to, he was outfitted with atleast a couple of expensive chains and his saws were atleast the equal to anyone else`s. Poor little Yiddish Marky.

If everyone has to restore a chain freehand while being timed, how can you say that it doesn`t seperate the men from the boys? You only acknowledge what you consider to be appropriate, you don`t acknowledge that virtually noone in the east is working with square chain and thus have not developed the skill to create a square chain.

Getting old and lame? So are these staged gtg's. All but a couple of saws and chains were ehp's. This gas thing is a joke too! You guy's are so suspicious it's pathetic.

There is nothing staged at all about these GTGs. We advertised them well in advance and stated that the rules are work saws only in most classes and running pump gas. You are free to run your GTGs any way that you want. We want the GTGs to be fun for guys who don`t have a big investment in the game. The guys who have spent alot of time and money have another objective and there are plenty of shows for them to prove themselves.

Suspicious, I don`t think so. Apparently there is a long legacy of cheating at saw races, you have even alluded to this when you told me about the brothers who fielded an 066 at Morton who nearly beat your 084, and the opinion that cheating is so common place that many races or shows have fuel and tear down rules in place. Are you going to say that this isn`t true?

We don`t have a teardown rule because we wouldn`t want anyone to be able to say that Ed or anyone else just wanted to get a look at their saw building techniques. We say prove that it`s a worksaw by going to the woodpile and making a whole tank full of back to back cuts. If it`s a work saw it won`t be a problem. So far, we haven`t excercised this clause on anyone, even Gypo with the "**** Job" 044 which runs exceptionally well, and BTW, we had the fuel rule at the last GTG and provided the fuel but that didn`t stop Gypo, Chris, or Kenny from fueling from their own cans but we didn`t smell any nitro in the air either so it was all good. See, we`re about having fun, and how many guys are going to have fun at a GTG if they`ve lost before the saws even started?

I have work saws with heads, and they will cut all day? So, who came up with those rules? Hahaha! We all know who, and why, don't we? You guy's have gotten has chicken as the Rupley's. buddy Dennis

Actually Dennis, a "no head" rule seems to be the norm out here. I don`t think that Ed has had anything to do with it unless he makes the rules for all the shows. I never thought that he might be, do you think he is?

If you wanted to run "stock appearing" when anything that fits under the hood is fair game, that`s different, but that precludes most guys from racing without making a sizeable investment, and frankly, the most of the guys at our GTGs don`t have to prove their masculinity by winning chainsaw races.

Don`t let Rick`s compliment of "Good job Dennis........" go to your head. He`s impressed anytime that a person can put more than a ten syllable sentence into a coherent thought.

Your pal, Russ

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

This is exactly why I suggested the type of chain race that I did. It would involve a skill vs someone setting up(or having someone else set up) a grinder and going to town. I don`t mean to suggest that having a Pro Sharp will automatically make you a chain builder but it sure is a step up from anything else out there and you can`t refute that. Gypo`s chains cut very well and Gypo is a good operator, just that he`s not the only guy who can have a good run and it has nothing to do with cutting 100mbf a week, or the 10mbf that Gypo cuts.

BTW, I would expect that Gypo would do very well in this competition, are you saying that he wouldn`t? I have no idea how Marky would do based on experience with him but I strongly suspect that he wouldn`t fair too well because I don`t think that he has filed too many chains in his lifetime.

Another BTW, the only GTG that I`ve been to that Marky also went to, he was outfitted with atleast a couple of expensive chains and his saws were atleast the equal to anyone else`s. Poor little Yiddish Marky.

If everyone has to restore a chain freehand while being timed, how can you say that it doesn`t seperate the men from the boys? You only acknowledge what you consider to be appropriate, you don`t acknowledge that virtually noone in the east is working with square chain and thus have not developed the skill to create a square chain.

There is nothing staged at all about these GTGs. We advertised them well in advance and stated that the rules are work saws only in most classes and running pump gas. You are free to run your GTGs any way that you want. We want the GTGs to be fun for guys who don`t have a big investment in the game. The guys who have spent alot of time and money have another objective and there are plenty of shows for them to prove themselves.

Suspicious, I don`t think so. Apparently there is a long legacy of cheating at saw races, you have even alluded to this when you told me about the brothers who fielded an 066 at Morton who nearly beat your 084, and the opinion that cheating is so common place that many races or shows have fuel and tear down rules in place. Are you going to say that this isn`t true?

We don`t have a teardown rule because we wouldn`t want anyone to be able to say that Ed or anyone else just wanted to get a look at their saw building techniques. We say prove that it`s a worksaw by going to the woodpile and making a whole tank full of back to back cuts. If it`s a work saw it won`t be a problem. So far, we haven`t excercised this clause on anyone, even Gypo with the "**** Job" 044 which runs exceptionally well, and BTW, we had the fuel rule at the last GTG and provided the fuel but that didn`t stop Gypo, Chris, or Kenny from fueling from their own cans but we didn`t smell any nitro in the air either so it was all good. See, we`re about having fun, and how many guys are going to have fun at a GTG if they`ve lost before the saws even started?

Actually Dennis, a "no head" rule seems to be the norm out here. I don`t think that Ed has had anything to do with it unless he makes the rules for all the shows. I never thought that he might be, do you think he is?

If you wanted to run "stock appearing" when anything that fits under the hood is fair game, that`s different, but that precludes most guys from racing without making a sizeable investment, and frankly, the most of the guys at our GTGs don`t have to prove their masculinity by winning chainsaw races.

Don`t let Rick`s compliment of "Good job Dennis........" go to your head. He`s impressed anytime that a person can put more than a ten syllable sentence into a coherent thought.

Your pal, Russ

Russ....when I say "staged" gtg, you know good and well what I'm talking about, and I'm not calling anybody a cheater. I would just like to see some competition besides all ehp saws. Since you're just trying to have fun, why not? One of the funny things to me is, pretty much anyone of you guys could build a woods modded saw, but choose to not to. Same thing with chain. You're never gonna learn anything about chain building doing a round file chain race. Stuck in Lodi again. Hahaha! Remember, your gtg's don't have to prove their masculinity.

"Suspicious, I don't think so" hahaha! why do you want everybody to run your saw gas. What a joke at a gtg. Are you afraid someone will put nitro in a work saw. Come on!...It don't work that way why friend, and I think you're a little confused about that 066 vs 084 story. We don't even race that kind of saw at Morton.

One of these days, if you do build your own stuff, and do well, I think you'll see how it feels, and you won't have to wipe the sh!t off your head anymore. Ask Gypo how it feels. hahaha! Later buddy Dennis

 

[Mr.]

I would love a chain race ala joker's idea. As long as we can run the powerhead with a chain that we bring first to qualify it for aggressiveness. You said round filed chain. I suggest that we should be able to use any file that we can buy readily from the common online sources i.e. Bailey's, So we can use what we use for the woods not someone elses preference. Also it takes me about an hour to correct someone else's POS chain, so allow atleast that much time. I can't do anything up north until the spring, so take that under advisement before saying I wanted it and wouldn't come.

 

[jokers]

Russ....when I say "staged" gtg, you know good and well what I'm talking about, and I'm not calling anybody a cheater.

No Dennis, I don`t know good and well what you are talking about but it sure looks like you`re accusing someone of cheating, or atleast stacking the deck.

If this stacking the deck, how is it any different from the shows in your area where everything is won by your saws or Tommy`s saws and chain?

Since you're just trying to have fun, why not? One of the funny things to me is, pretty much anyone of you guys could build a woods modded saw, but choose to not to. Same thing with chain. You're never gonna learn anything about chain building doing a round file chain race.

Maybe most of us don`t care enough about race chain to try and learn how to build one. Everyone is interested in having a sharp work chain and since most guys with any saw time at all can produce a reasonable facsimile of a chain sharp enough to cut wood, it would be fun. Besides, I`m pretty sure that even if I built an a$$ kicking chain all I would ever hear from you is that Ed must have built it.

.......why do you want everybody to run your saw gas. What a joke at a gtg. Are you afraid someone will put nitro in a work saw. Come on!...It don't work that way why friend...

I`m not at all afraid of someone putting nitro in a woods saw. I am concerned about someone putting nitro in their race saw and then competing with those of us running gas saws. This doesn`t seem like an unreasonable concern to me. Would you run a gas work saw against someone`s nitro burner if you had a choice?

.......and I think you're a little confused about that 066 vs 084 story. We don't even race that kind of saw at Morton.

I am not doubt confused about where the 066 nearly took your 084 but I`m not confused about the other details of the story that you related to me when I asked you if I should buy a 395 or 660.

One of these days, if you do build your own stuff, and do well, I think you'll see how it feels, and you won't have to wipe the sh!t off your head anymore. Ask Gypo how it feels. hahaha! Later buddy Dennis

I`m confused here Dennis. If I`m reading you right, I have Ed`s sh!t on my head because I have paid him to build me several saws that I`ve competed with. So if I`m understanding you correctly, buying a product or service from an accomplished craftsman such as Ed, or even yourself puts sh!t on a person`s head, then aren`t you also saying that people like Penny Halvorsen has your sh!t on her head because she bought a bike saw from you, or how about anyone else that has bought one of your saws, do they have your sh!t on their heads also? WOW! Seems like a pretty dim view of the people who pay you alot of money for the toys to compete in their sport.

Russ

 

[jokers]

I would love a chain race ala joker's idea. As long as we can run the powerhead with a chain that we bring first to qualify it for aggressiveness. You said round filed chain. I suggest that we should be able to use any file that we can buy readily from the common online sources i.e. Bailey's, So we can use what we use for the woods not someone elses preference. Also it takes me about an hour to correct someone else's POS chain, so allow atleast that much time.

Your ideas seem like they could be worked into the details but I surmise that you square file based on your comments, which would give you an inherent advantage. We could still give everyone notice that they need to work on their square filing well enough in advance to actually get some practice, but must guys either won`t or can`t invest in the expensive equipment to square grind.

Everyone obviously needs to run the same powerhead and a few practice cuts with a work chain, not the chain to be raced with, seems fair enough to me.

Russ

 

[Mr.]

I don't square file and am not afraid of those who do. I just don't want to set up a chain from scratch with someone's worn out, thought it was made in Europe, piece of Taiwan, only good for doing toe nails, POS file.

Let the guys do what they do. If someone can convert a rocked out chain into a race chain with just a file in around an hour. We all need to kiss his @$$ and make him teach us.

I seldom learn anything when I win and I've learned alo by competing in everything in my life.

Beat me I'll like it.

My $.02

 

[Gypo Logger]

I like the idea of having a chainrace and within an aloted time use whatever fle you deem most worthy.
Just because a square file can make a chain cut faster than a round file, doesn't mean the filer will accomplish that end.
I would say 5-10 minutes with a stock chain will seperate the men from the boys regardless of what file is used.
It seems like everybody is in a fighting mood tonight! lol I already popped on my Kubota dealer!

 

[Marky Mark]

Russ all I can say is this. Does Dale Earnheart Jr. build the car or just drive it. Me I feel if I can afford the best gear out there why not. How come your not racing Dozer Dan's saws? Because you want the better gear.

Oh by the way Russ I tend to use the file more than the brand new Silvey I don't know how to use.

I might take a ride up next week with Ken when Ed comes down. Maybe we can fool with some chains I have.

 

[Crofter]

If you have a short time limit and especially if you must file on the saw, round filing may win out. Allow a bit more time and use of a chain clamp and the square filed has the jump, I think. How does the chain get evenly dulled?

 

[Gypo Logger]

Frank, that has been my beef about square filing from the beginning. If ity takes an hour to file one, what freaking good is it? However, if I could file one as fast as I could with a round file it may be worth learning.
The only reason to learn to square file by hand is because it makes a faster race chain unless that was the way I learned to file from day one.
In other words, a lousy square filer can be beat hands down with a round filed chain.
That's if everybody gets my drift.
John

 

[jokers]

Russ all I can say is this. Does Dale Earnheart Jr. build the car or just drive it. Me I feel if I can afford the best gear out there why not.

Good to see you posting Marky. I don`t disagree with you, I just don`t understand how you`re attitude fits in with Dennis' that anyone who buys Ed`s saws and chain have their head up his arse. Wouldn`t the same sort of logic apply to guys who buy his or Tommy`s stuff?

Oh by the way Russ I tend to use the file more than the brand new Silvey I don't know how to use.

kudos to you Marky for learning how to square file, I simply haven`t even considered investing the time. BTW, are you saying that you finally bought a Pro Sharp?

I might take a ride up next week with Ken when Ed comes down. Maybe we can fool with some chains I have.

It will be good to see you. BTW, I think we`re headed north of the border to meet at Playinwood`s place, bnut I could have this wrong. Wouldn`t be the first time.

Later, Russ

 

[jokers]

Frank, that has been my beef about square filing from the beginning. If ity takes an hour to file one, what freaking good is it? However, if I could file one as fast as I could with a round file it may be worth learning.
The only reason to learn to square file by hand is because it makes a faster race chain unless that was the way I learned to file from day one.
In other words, a lousy square filer can be beat hands down with a round filed chain.
That's if everybody gets my drift.
John

Man, you summed it up nicely for most of us John.

Russ

 

[Crofter]

I pretty much have to agree about the practicality for hand filing. If you are on huge wood and piece work and do up spare chains on a square grinder, you may be money ahead. I could probably round file a chain by moonlihgt in a pinch; to do a cecent job square filing takes excellent light. 3 times as long and the files cost 5 times as much. It also takes 40 times as long to learn how! That to gain perhaps 15 % speed. However when it comes to competition we know where the cards fall.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Russ, I won't try to speak for Dennis, but I think I know what he's trying to say even though he's a Jacka$$.

We can all look back, but we can't look ahead, however we can glimpse the future somewhat thru history since it has a habit of repeating itself.
You have been around here as long as I have been and we have both seen saw builders come and go for various reasons, however they all had one thing in common. They all wanted everybody to buy "their" saws and the majority of them wanted to keep their clientele right where they wanted them. Right in their hip pocket. In otherwords, anyone who wished to advance beyond their boundaries were no longer in their camp.
And that's where the bullsh!t lies. We all want to improve ourselves and we all want to get ahead.
Fook the freakin sawbuilders if they want to keep you in one spot.
It's not who wins, it's how you play the game. But when you walk up to the log everybody should try to do their best.
All the saw builders have helped me immensely that's why I'm doing my own stuff now.
Those that are relatively new here will find all this going over their head possibly, but the bottom line is Walkers, Greffard, Dunn, Heard are all stepping stones to where we are now regardless of wether they are friends or merely acquantances. Our biggest mistake is to project ourselves as something we are not, and we have sure seen a sh!tpile of that!
This isn't directed at anyone inparticular, but if the shoe fits then wear it!
John