Granberg File-N-Joint, Revisited

[Philbert]

I recently picked up this version, which I have not tried yet. Has a redesigned casting and a nice, quality feel to it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecomec-MS...ar-Mount-replaces-Oregon-557849-/382933160756

Philbert

 

[RED-85-Z51]

I recently picked up this version, which I have not tried yet. Has a redesigned casting and a nice, quality feel to it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tecomec-MS...ar-Mount-replaces-Oregon-557849-/382933160756View attachment 841971

Philbert

I picked one up to try...to see if its a product i want to sell, im not impressed at all so far.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

 

[Philbert]

I picked one up to try...to see if its a product i want to sell, im not impressed at all so far.

Why? Can you be specific? Features? Quality? Performance? etc.?

I own a number of these now (mostly due to this thread!), including some which appear to be cast out of cheap metal, or have a lot of plastic parts; different, physical sizes; the 'File-N-Guide' (shorter base) and 'File-N-Joint' (longer base); bench mounted ones, etc., etc., etc. This one appears to be well made with mostly quality, metal components, except for the file holders, which is OK with me, since I had some of the cheap metal ones crack and break. It also seems to fit in-between the smaller, 'consumer' Oregon 23829 SureSharp, which has a lot of plastic parts, and the larger, heavier, 'professional' Oregon 557849, in both price and size.

Philbert

 

[FordGT40]

Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.

Whenever I try to hand file a saw, I end up causing the saw to cut a curve to the left. After two or three trips to the shop to get my chain “professionally” sharpened, I decided there had to be a tool that would simplify sharpening for me.

So, about ten years ago I ended up looking for an inexpensive solution to my problem and ran across the Granberg G106B. Aside from a few reviews complaining about the difficulty of first use, most reviews were extremely positive. So, I bought one for my then 18” Craftsman saw. Yes, their instructions leave much to be desired, but there is enough there to get you started and after a few tries, it becomes fairly easy to use. It only takes 10 minutes or so to do a complete chain once you are proficient.

Boy what a difference it made. Since then, I always get beautiful straight cuts. Needless to say, I really like the Granberg especially since I can take it out in the woods to use without needing electrical power.

I currently have two G106Bs and a third on order. One I have set up for my Echo CS-400 and the other for my CS-600P. The chain for the 400 is filed square to the bar whereas the chain on the 600P uses 10 degree down angle on the file. I keep the separate file guides because doing the down angle adjustment is a pain and which is why I have a third Granberg on order - I'll have two for the 600P, one for left side filing and one for right side filing and I won’t have to mess with changing the settings.

 

[Philbert]

Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.

Welcome to A.S.!

Thanks for your comments, and sharing your experiences!

Philbert

 

[sundance]

Hi, all, I just recently joined the forum and thought I would add my two cents on the Granberg File-n-Joint.

Whenever I try to hand file a saw, I end up causing the saw to cut a curve to the left. After two or three trips to the shop to get my chain “professionally” sharpened, I decided there had to be a tool that would simplify sharpening for me.

So, about ten years ago I ended up looking for an inexpensive solution to my problem and ran across the Granberg G106B. Aside from a few reviews complaining about the difficulty of first use, most reviews were extremely positive. So, I bought one for my then 18” Craftsman saw. Yes, their instructions leave much to be desired, but there is enough there to get you started and after a few tries, it becomes fairly easy to use. It only takes 10 minutes or so to do a complete chain once you are proficient.

Boy what a difference it made. Since then, I always get beautiful straight cuts. Needless to say, I really like the Granberg especially since I can take it out in the woods to use without needing electrical power.

I currently have two G106Bs and a third on order. One I have set up for my Echo CS-400 and the other for my CS-600P. The chain for the 400 is filed square to the bar whereas the chain on the 600P uses 10 degree down angle on the file. I keep the separate file guides because doing the down angle adjustment is a pain and which is why I have a third Granberg on order - I'll have two for the 600P, one for left side filing and one for right side filing and I won’t have to mess with changing the settings.

Welcome to AS.
I quit doing the 10 degree down angle on my chains (use a Granberg) because it was such a pain. Can't really tell any difference in performance for my uses.
Mine gets used for 3/8LP, .325 and 3/8 all filed at 30 degrees. All the chains work well.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Thank you for all the great information. I'm *rather frustrated* by taking newer chains to be overly ground by the local professional, not to mention having to own a load of chains so when one dulls out it can be swapped for a fresh one. I'd heard of hand-filing chains a few years back and finally decided to make it happen. I just purchased a lightly used Granberg File-n-Guide G-108 and am looking forward to having sharp chains cut great and last a long time, plus the convenience of sharpening on the fly.

 

[sundance]

Thank you for all the great information. I'm *rather frustrated* by taking new chains to be overly ground by the local professional, not to mention having to own a load of chains so when when dulls out it can be swapped for a fresh one. I'd heard of hand-filing chains a few years back and finally decided to make it happen. I just purchased a lightly used Granberg File-n-Guide G-108 and am looking forward to having sharp chains cut great and last a long time, plus the convenience of sharpening on the fly.

Good choice. With some of the guidance contained here you should do well. I've used one for years. Personally, I use 30 degrees and no tilt as it gets painful to set. I've been happy with chain performance in all three sizes I use (3/8. .325 and 3/8LP). Chains now seem to last almost forever. Wish I didn't have a bunch of new chains bought back when I was getting them ground. Think I've got a couple lifetimes supply now. Really ought to try and sell some.

 

[Philbert]

Someone recently asked me which model to purchase. Since I typed it into a PM, I figured I ought to copy most of it here:

I have more than a dozen of these (!), largely due to the rabbit hole I created with the (this) thread. They all work.

* Key thing is to remember that it is a guide, to help you file consistently and precisely, and is not intended to force the file to do anything. *​

The differences I see, among all the different models in this thread:

- Size: in the photos you can see the big differences between some. The more massive ones may have advantages in durability, or if used on harvester chain (?), but can also be heavy and clumsy. Even the 'Pro' Oregon one can feel big (pickup truck versus compact car preferences). Smaller ones can be easier to carry in the field, and keep your hand closer to the cutters (for control) when filing.

- Plastic: too much means more flex, especially in the hinged, top portion. But plastic is OK, IMO, in the top cap, where the guide bar slides, and in the 'frames' (clamp the file, top bar, and middle bar): I have had the pot metal ones crack /crumble.

- Quality: side-by-side you can see differences. I had to take my newer Granberg models apart and remove all the casting flash before using them, because it made me crazy; pretty good otherwise. I am confident that cheap models off eBay will have other quality issues. Most of the Tecomec, Oregon, and other brand name ones should be pretty good.

- Design: the older style 'File-N-Grind'' models have a shorter base, and do not hold the cutters down when filing. The 'File-N-Joint' models (last 40+ years) have a longer base, and the clamps to help hold the cutters. I would really like one with a second thumb screw to hold it to the bar more securely (so that it can't pivot) once positioned.

I have picked these up at garage sales for less than a dollar, and payed some serious money for a couple. Most used ones clean up pretty easily, even if they have some light rust. I prefer to work with the guide bar in a vise (on or off the saw) or somehow stabilized. The guides all work, if you understand what you are trying to accomplish and have sharp files. Choose one (or more) that makes you happy!

Philbert

 

[4CornersPuddle]

Philbert, I've really appreciated and enjoyed all your chain related threads.
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth regarding chain filing, specifically relating to filing guides.
I started felling timber in 1972 with practically no helpful instruction from seasoned veterans about felling practices nor saw chain filing If you think about it, this was 2 years before Doug Dent published his Professional Timber Falling book! Talk about being a greenhorn and reinventing the wheel! After a summer job in the woods, I went spent three years in the Army, dreaming about getting back to my Homelite 924/925 and making some more logs.
When I returned to the woods, I spent a couple of months with a crew of moderately competent fallers, several who use the Granberg File-N-Joint of the day. I quickly bought one and figured out how to put it to really beneficial use.
I went through two of these tools, smashing the first with a tree that wandered out of the lay and into my gas jugs and tools, and actually wearing out the bushings and rods on the second one. Since then, I've only filed free hand. I do keep a File-N-Joint on hand to demonstrate to neophyte saw users what I'm talking about when I describe the angles etc. of a saw chain tooth. I've been known to give the guide away to a new saw user when I give them a saw. Yes, I rebuild saws and give them away. Spread the wealth, I say. Ha ha.
A sawing partner back in the '80s bought the Oregon tool. We compared it day in and day out to the Granberg. In our opinions, the Oregon tool was not as user friendly and wore out sooner than the Granberg. Both could certainly show a sawyer what they needed to achieve when filing.
Our site member Gaudaost has certainly shown what some understanding of filing means. It's my belief that many, if not most, folks would benefit from using one of these quality guides that clamp on the bar.
I've preached for years to new saw users, particularly fallers I've trained, that "It takes two years to know what a sharp chain is, and 10 years to learn how to really get there." This could be an exaggeration, but I've seen it repeatedly ring true in the 48 years that I've been running chainsaws for hire.

 

[Philbert]

"It takes two years to know what a sharp chain is, and 10 years to learn how to really get there."

Thanks.

My position has mostly been: 'Everybody needs to find something that works for them'. If they can freehand file; fine. If they use a grinder; fine. If they pay someone else to sharpen for them; fine. Different folks in different circumstances. I have conversed with folks who are 'professionals', in that their income is derived from running a saw, who just do not want to sharpen chains! I don't sell any products, so it is not an issue to me how people sharpen, or which brands they use.

The chains that I see are not from guys who know how to sharpen, or who are satisfied with their current methods. As I stated at the beginning of this thread, the Granberg style file guides are something that I came back to, after trying a bunch of things, for folks that want consistent, precisely filed cutters. It's one option. If it serves as a 'training tool' for some, that can be a good thing too. I have learned a lot since starting this thread, and am impressed that even after 60 years, this basic design has remained a useful product.

Philbert

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

As an update, I now have really, really sharp chains thanks to you guys! It was still a learning process with the Granberg--there are a lot of things to keep in mind all at once--but with a little practice and a lot of attention paid to all the tips others gave (using a felt marker on the cutting edge is genius!) learning was fast and easy.

Some (most) old pros say sharpening is a skill that can't be reduced to numbers and has to be learned by years of practice and "feel." I've [harshly] believed "they don't know what they're doing, only that it works" which is usually correct--otherwise they'd all agree and there would be no discord. But there is discord, and many beers consumed while arguing over who has the best hand-filing skills (because Grinder-guys are hacks, it seems).

There are generic numbers that work incredibly well, and those can be fine-tuned to take other factors into consideration, and sharpening is certainly a skill that can be advanced to an art.

Hand-filing is certainly a skill that's not mastered easily. The Granberg Jig is like having training wheels that keep me out of trouble and let me concentrate on the result. There's still finesse involved in getting chain teeth angles near perfect with razor-sharp cutting edges, but filing guides make that repeatable, and with a lot of attention to detail these chains are super-fast and the edge lasts a long time.

One other thing: There's almost no noticeable material removal. Previously, when the chains went in to get ground all the teeth were taken back to the same size and there was no doubt the teeth were smaller. With hand filing (using a jig) it's difficult to tell any material was removed because it's the material underneath that's removed to re-establish proper angles and sharpness--and then you stop. It's literally 2-3 strokes to sharpen a chain that's in good condition. Some of the chains that were sharpened on a grinder required 15-20 strokes to get them back to what a new factory chain looked like, and maybe 5 more super-light strokes to polish them in. (I bought a new factory chain and used it to set up the jig to be sure the jig was set correctly.) When the chain started dulling--and that took a lot of cutting--it only took 2-3 light strokes to sharpen it back up. My experience is super-sharp chains cut more wood between sharpening, so with proper oiling chain life is way, way longer.

Thanks again guys, this really does work!

 

[Philbert]

A lot of information to scroll through. Reposting links to some tutorials by @CTYank (in Post #106, above). Also check out videos linked in Post #98 above).

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-file-guide-setup.237730/
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/filing-depth-gauges-with-granberg-guide.238512/
Philbert

 

[tomalophicon]

Here's something different.
Picked up this variation for free on marketplace.
This is solid. It weighs 2 pounds. The body is a solid chunk of cast iron.
Made 1947?
It's is perfect working order and the build quality is so much better than the new Granberg I bought this year.
Looks like a square file could be used based on the instructions?
Came with a couple extra goodies too.


EDIT:
After using this thing it absolutely blows the Granberg out of the water. Much more solid construction, solid as a rock, the screws for the file actually stay tight. It doesn't flex under use. Chattering much reduced. I'll be relegating the Granberg to the field box and keeping this in the shed.

 

[tomalophicon]

Original Granberg Patent?
Goes back to 1955 (filing date) and 1958 (award date)!


Chain saw sharpening and jointing apparatus
Publication number US2818752 A
Publication date Jan 7, 1958
Filing date Jul 1, 1955
Inventors Elof Granberg
Original Assignee Nygran Ind Ltd

Available on Google patents for real chain geeks!
View attachment 554738 View attachment 554739

Philbert

Philbert, the 'Piccolo' above may pre-date the Granberg? Interesting if it does considering the patent information you linked.
There's zero information on this sharpener on the net.
Tom.

 

[Philbert]

Nice, older model. These devices have been made / sold under many names, as well as private labels (e.g. ‘Sears’, ‘Homelite’, etc. ).

Earlier versions had shorter bases (‘file-n-guide’). Longer bases (‘file-n-joint’) came later.

The numbers probably mean something other than patent date or manufacture date. Might be easier to date from the accompanying literature. I’m guessing mid 1960’s to early 1970’s?

Nice file guide in any case.

Philbert

 

[FordGT40]

Here's something different.
Picked up this variation for free on marketplace.
This is solid. It weighs 2 pounds. The body is a solid chunk of cast iron.
Made 1947?
It's is perfect working order and the build quality is so much better than the new Granberg I bought this year.
Looks like a square file could be used based on the instructions?
Came with a couple extra goodies too.
View attachment 938420View attachment 938424

EDIT:
After using this thing it absolutely blows the Granberg out of the water. Much more solid construction, solid as a rock, the screws for the file actually stay tight. It doesn't flex under use. Chattering much reduced. I'll be relegating the Granberg to the field box and keeping this in the shed.

Nice find! That looks very solidly built. Yes, the Granbergs due flex a bit if you put some pressure to them.

 

[Braintree]

Philbert, the 'Piccolo' above may pre-date the Granberg? Interesting if it does considering the patent information you linked.
There's zero information on this sharpener on the net.
Tom.

Tom,Does that say Zürich on the body of the sharpener? So it may have been made in Austria? But the literature was from Canada? That’s really nice I never seen a shopping like that. I’ve got both stihl model When you anchored to your bench the other one you just put on the bar. Is that one there are some cool. Nice find

 

[MacAttack]

I feel like I've gotten good at putting a good sharpening on a saw with my old McCulloch F&J. I really need some new files though, what size file do you guys favor for 1/4 and 3/8 lp chain?

 

[Philbert]

I Googled ’J. Hunziker’, and, apparently, it was a brand of chainsaw.

There was also a post from someone else who found a similar filing guide, on a chainsaw collector forum (unable to post a link):



Philbert