Had to quit first logging job after fitting in perfectly. How should I proceed?

[madhatte]

any body got a perfect hombolt stump pic? ya know one that the hinge broke clean.

Here's one. It's a red oak I cut inside the fence during storm cleanup a couple of years ago. I trimmed the root flare because I was having trouble keeping up the RPM's in that hard wood and didn't want to pack a bigger saw.

And another, a sweetgum, following the same storm:

Here's the butt end of an oak showing the hinge breaking cleanly:

Same oak (I think), stump pic:

Here's a biggish walnut yard tree swung hard against its lean with a tapered hinge:

Of course, I mostly cut fur, and they end up looking like this:

or this, with a tapered hinge to swing it ~45 degrees:

Here's a block face plus snipe:

Every one of these is a Humboldt variation. I'm just a forester, not a cutter, so you can reasonably expect that a pro faller is better at this than I am. Humboldts offer a LOT of different ways to do things.

 

[matthew sparks]

Sorry to start so many side discussions but when cutting hardwoods how big of a bar can a MS460 thats been gone through and at max power handle?

 

[matthew sparks]

Those pics look awesome. Looks like you could get trees on the ground a lot faster than I have been with a bore cut. I was making too many cuts and after 4-6 hours my notches weren't even straight.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I'm

Westboastfaller, no one ever said anything about a near miss, that's putting words in someone elses mouth. In the midwest US the fallers are usually cutting one on one, up to three fallers to one skidder depending on the circumstances. A common way to deal w a knot head skidder man is for the fallers to gradually ease up. then a chainfiling, a filter change or nature break by one or more can get him caught up to the point he takes a break or finds some way to loaf. The fallers tie in and cut solid and swamp him. In alot of outfits the skidder operators dont go home until the days cut is on the landing.

I never said he was wrong for quitting, thats his call. I never said anyone else was wrong for telling him he did the right thing. In all likelyhood he made a good decision,

BUT, when Matthew went to work that morning he had a wife, 4 kids, one w special needs, and probably like most younger family guys, bills, bills, and more bills. it just irks the crap out of me that at the end of the day, he still had the same responsibilities, but no job, the drunk still did. I have yet to see a logging or forestry crew yet that cant make life so intolerable for a person that they wont quit. And nothing illegal, immoral, or dangerous need take place. A missing lunch bucket one day, a snake in it the next, their personal pick-up up on blocks at quitting time, etc. We're not exactly talking about a bunch a girl scouts here, they're loggers.

And just for the record, at present I run a saw and oversee the daytime field operations for a forestry company that is owned by a man w a daytime federal govt job. He is VERY clear about the fact that im in charge while he is absent. NOT ONE of the crew has to worry about working with a drunk, a stoner, or a COCKY dangerous co-worker because I wont tolerate any of it for 2 minutes!!!

I'm glad you run a clean professional ship,*RESPECT*Having said that I would have expected a different response from you.
its not that he quit because his wrist was sore or he's c**t struck (maybe those to are related) anyway you are indeed been the one that's suggestive, that's your quote below.
Of course it exists in industry, I myself in 28 years of work, 25 been saw related, have only one experience with this, the only two other people were drinking and one been the contractor.
Well I looked back and he's in me falling zone with a tree hung up that he proceeded to fence post down. It was facing away and I took my eye of him for a bit and looked back and the tree was just about to strike me I attempted to run and got hit with the top between the shoulder blades. Then a fist fight, then
3 years later I get skidded of a job because the client recognized me from that crew and he remembered it as we were all drinking. One experience and I lost two jobs, got in a fight and was about 2 ft from getting killed.
[/quote]
"There are many ways to get a skidder operators attention"

Well that statement would be true but were talking about nothing different that a perpetual drunk driver and at one point was passed out at the wheel, IDN, I know a lot of fallers would shake their axe at him and say " You c_ _ck sucker better not come within 500 ft of me" If he didn't listen to that he better hope he's got good FOPS in place..
Know a faller that got back at a cat operator that would had killed him had he not just moved to the other side and he told the guy he was working there. He waited for him as he had about a two ft tree set up to go off a bank and laid it over his roof. Scared the piss out of him and he never came where he worked again.


[/quote]
"You just pack out and quit everytime something going on you dont like, you'll get the reputation as a whiner. Believe me, contractors and owners talk to each other. Surprises me that someone smart enough to go to engineering school couldnt figure out something better than to pack out and quit. Fallers have many ways to get a skidder operators attention."

I wasn't trying to make out you said something you didn't, I was just saying HE'S DRUNK!!! He will have more near misses, hurt someone or kill someone. Its senseless, no excuse for it and no excuse to remain working in that environment. The worker that puts up with it, or the D' bag that employs 'THAT' is no better.
A D' bag like that May as well sell people for money.

 

[madhatte]

Sorry to start so many side discussions but when cutting hardwoods how big of a bar can a MS460 thats been gone through and at max power handle?

Most of those were cut with a bone-stock 440 and a 28" bar running full-comp semi-chisel chain. That's my setup at work.

 

[matthew sparks]

I know so many of you will tell me to never work alone but after reading that Westboatfaller I just want to go buy a skidder and work alone. HAHA

 

[matthew sparks]

I bought a fully rebuilt 460MS that seems to have more power than a new 461. I was told my MS391 was not big enough to worry with so i traded my new 391 and 200.00 for the 460ms.

 

[madhatte]

460 is a good saw. I ran one for a couple of years, never had a problem. I run a 440 now because it's lighter, and have a 660 in reserve for when I need the extra oomph.

 

[matthew sparks]

I don't know if I could handle a 660. Like I said my notches weren't straight when I got tired even with the 460. I am sure that stamina comes with cutting down thousands of trees like most of you guys have.

 

[bnmc98]

I don't know if I could handle a 660. Like I said my notches weren't straight when I got tired even with the 460. I am sure that stamina comes with cutting down thousands of trees like most of you guys have.

You will learn to line up your cuts with time, as for the saw, use what the wood calls for. dont lug a 660 around if you are cutting smaller trees, that will help your stamina and your wallet. as for bar length on a 460. I run a 32" on my 461 but I have to run a skip chain to keep rpm up, I log at 6000 plus feet and that robs hp. Pulls it fine in softwood, not a hardwood cutter so I dont know for sure on that one. I have always ran a 460 with a 28" bar and FC chain, but again we cut softwood.

 

[madhatte]

660 is a nice saw. Good power-to-weight. I would use it more if I was in more of a hurry. 440 is good enough for 75% of my cutting.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I know so many of you will tell me to never work alone but after reading that Westboatfaller I just want to go buy a skidder and work alone. HAHA

Well there's working alone and there's working alone, that was some years back but that particular industry is removing danger trees after a narrow mechanically cleared swath.
Falling zones are still to be respected, 60 metres or two tree lengths, which ever is greater. The guy should have cut to the side by side (utv) and leapfroged ahead and I do the same.
Noboddy can enter you falling zone with out permission from the faller by radio or approach from the highside and yell from 60m away (200ft) like if Iwanted to cross your quarter to get to my wood I'd say , Mathew! Is it ok if I 'come' across your face... lol sorry man, but its pretty funny when you get to say it three times " you sure? Its ok to 'come' across your face.
and the guys saying yes of course you can come across my face...lol
See you couldn't have that kinda fun by yourself.
Most fallers are loners

 

[matthew sparks]

HAHAHA! no you may not come across my face but I really appreciate the advice. I don't know if anyone has a radio in West KY. They all know how to scream really loud and all are hard of hearing though. I would just assume stick my wife in the truck and work alone and have her check up on me via radio. My first couple of days working I was worried about hurting myself or someone else. Then it got to where I worried more about someone else hurting me. I think the majority of loggers around here whether they are fallers or skidder drivers are all pretty reckless. I saw the owner domino four trees one day when we were all on lunch break. I asked him why he cut them that way and he said just for fun. He said he liked the adrenaline rush and he knew what he was doing.

 

[Westboastfaller]

I guess I need to make sure I explain how they bore cut here. I am not saying this is the right way of doing it but this is how they do it. They cut the notch in the direction they "think" the tree will fall and then plunge in 3 inches behind the notch and bore into the middle of the notch and then span the saw back toward the backside of the tree until they are a few inches away from the back. Then they plunge in the same way on the other side. Some start in the back, some in the front on the second side cut. They called it half moon cutting. Just a redneck term I am sure. Then when all but the two small side hinges are cut they go cut down the back to release the tree. The only adjustments I saw them make was they would leave additional wood on one side of one leaning to one direction.

I asked them one day about a wedge. They said they didn't use them so i made a mallet and and wedge out of a limb in order to have a wedge in my back pocket. That seems to be the way everyone does it around here though.

We call that a beaver tail and thats for big diameter/heavy leaner You wouldn't need to "heart it out"(cut the middle out and just leaving a post of holding wood on each side (still making it a legal stump here. on small diameter I just bore right through behind the holding wood then cut back and and leave what we call, a back strap. So you can get way back and
hit it with your tip. Always go a few inches below your main back cut or it may take your saw for a ride, and thats not always good. Thats a good way to do a push as well.
Instead of using a wedge.
Just do the same as well but leave a couple of inch back strap
and make another cut in the back again below the undercut
but about 8" this time and cut in a couple of inches (make sure its not to rotten at the strap) I pop an earmuff for saftey and walk to my "bullet" or pusher tree.
Back straps are used all the time for big cedar here.
On a big enough tree 7-8 ft you can bore the highside first and cut it back to your high 'corner' where your exit is( excape route) then
bore in and cut close to the lowest side corner and possibly heart it out to make sure because you cant go back there. Turn your saw around and walk the cut back to the high side meeting your cut.
Proper procedure would be to start your low side first especially on a leaner. also a diamond cut for small leaners.
Its move of a V cut . As much undercut as it will take but not over 25% (standard on heavy leaners /wedge trees 25%)
Then its basically a V cut cut low side then hight side without cuting a corner off then cut strait in on the back cut cutting out the V.
On the big leaners a big concern can be root mat pull, that back strap and/or beaver tail will save your life.

 

[northmanlogging]

pushing for fun... STOOPid...

anyway to go back to your 460 question, ran an 046 for years with a 32" bar and full skip, never a problem, never cut any oak mind but she pulled fine in maple. Currently drag a 461 around, one muff modded the other bone stock, biggest issue with them is bar oil, I'll cut anything with them, and bar for bar they pull as good or better then a stock 660, just run out of clutch and oil anything over 32"

 

[matthew sparks]

westboastfaller thanks so much even though I didn't fully understand all of that( I'm very green on various cutting methods) northmanlogging I haven't tried anything besides a 20" bar on the 460. The only thing I don't like about the saw is no autotune on the carb. When you guys talk about various chains all I have ever ran is Stihl .050 square top chains. Thats what I was told to use and not use safety chains. They seem to cut fast but the kickback after sharpening the drags when trying to plunge scare the hell out of me

 

[Locust Cutter]

Considering I use my Stumpbroke 372 (7-pin) to pull a 28" bar of full-comp/round chisel in Hedge, that 460 having a few more CC's should do the same or a bit better while not straining quite as much. 32" with a full skip should be fine in about anything. I would experiment a bit with your raker height and find what your saw likes. If it's rough or grabby (even if it pulls it fine) then your drags are too low and you're asking for trouble. In softwood you can get away with a bit more, but ultimately smooth is fast (and controllable which is more important as you'd probably like to go home in the same condition that you left). On Hedge, Locust, Ash, Black/ Pin/ Burr Oaks and Mulberry I normally use the standard stihl file plate setting and a single file pass beyond and get a smooth, quick cut. A lot more has to do with your filing angles than your drag setting when to comes to production-vs-chain life though. What angles are you running for filing, or are you just eyeballing it?

 

[matthew sparks]

I am just eyeballing. Only way I have been taught to be honest.

 

[Gologit]

Either of these two methods work well with leaners. I usually use the triangle but that's mostly because it's easier for me to match my cuts. Either way will work.

 

[matthew sparks]

Im surprised you can leave that much holding and the tree will still fall on the triangle. The T seems to be easier to me. I will see if I can draw how I have been cutting. It seemed to work but was slow. Thanks so much for the pictures.