hand filing

[topnotchtree]

Not quite sure what a square filed chain looks like or even means. Do you use a square file, not a round one? And if so do you need a different chain for this type of filing?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There 's a good parallel thread going on right now:
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=18372

It even has pictures.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I'm with you on the side hook or half moon, in a workers comp. book it says not to do this cause "it will make the chain dangerously aggressive", sounds good to me.

Too much hook slows you down as well as making it dangerous, that's important to know.

 

[topnotchtree]

Thanks Mike, maybe this whole thread belongs in the saw forum too!

 

[Crofter]

Lowering your rakers will allow a dull chain to keep on cutting. more hook (file lower on the tooth will also allow a dull chain to continue cutting (actually tearing wood out) They cause the chain to bite and pull hard as it inefficiently makes its way through the wood, but it is putting a lot more wear on chain, bar, and sprocket and vibration damage on the operator. As Mike Maas points out it also is not faster. When your tooth is filed irregularly as to straight line across top plate ( you wobbled or changed down handle during stroke) it is necessary to remove extra metal before you get a tooth that is sharp ALL the way across the top and down the side cutter. A straight stroke is a big plus. It gets you sharper with less tooth removed. If some of you are getting over 45 use your readers so you can see the chrome peeling. I have seen a few old fellows go back to the flat plate file guides because it is just easier for them to get good results in the field. I can round file with my readers, but use a 3X magnifier head band mounted for square filing.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Frank, the file guides make for a consistent outside side plate angle. They also have reference lines to help with outside top plate angles and inside side plate angles. Then drop your file a few degrees, and you also have inside top plate angle.
If you don't like any of the preset angles the file guide gives you, they can be changed with shims or grinding.
Freehand (no guide) leaves room for error. A skilled filer has little error, but error, just the same.
I see in your picture of the jig to thin cutters inside mating surface to drive links, you used a jig. Why didn't you just grab the cutter with a vice grip and grind away? See my point?

 

[clearance]

My old boss showed me the top hook (curve in the hook looking down on it) trick when I was juvenile spacing. I already knew about the side hook working good despite what has been said here (I don't mean a huge side hook, just a good one). Spacing is piecework so production is key. No undercut, just slice right through in one push with the back of the bar, the tree goes over your left shoulder as you move to the next one. You don't see it fall, it actually slides along your bar. This is known as stump-jumping. We used 266xp saws with 18inch bars and regular 73lg chain. 6-9 inch Douglas firs all day. This method works real good. After filing by hand for years I know that I can make a saw rip, but ultimately Mike is probably right about guides making for a more conisistent job.

 

[Crofter]

Mike I agree with you 100 % Most people use more hook and horse off the rakers to try to compensate for a dull chain instead of sharpening it properly. You better go back and reread me. Clearance if you sharpen often, and don,t worry about some of the tradeoffs I think you can get good results with what you are saying. Put a chain like that into the dirt though and the slender extended beak on the corner will need a lot of tooth removed to put a keen corner back on it. In otherwords it puts a sharp aggressive but delicate edge on a tooth.

 

[clearance]

Crofter-you are so right about it being a ????? to get a chain that has hooks in it back after it has been rocked. I only do this when I am falling. I like the rakers at about 30 thou. I have heard of guys bucking on a muddy landing that snap all the rakers off with vise-grips. When I worked construction last summer the foreman said "just file down those little tits, it'll cut better".

 

[Scars2prove-it]

I file chains free hand but rarely mess with the rakers. When it's time to file the rakers I just put a new chain on. I only pay $20 for an 84 link chain so I don't like my guys wasting time filing when they have better things to do. My crew is good at keeping chains out of the dirt so usually they only have to file after they hit metal in the wood.

Some people that file free hand like to make the angle on the teeth real sharp. If there is a guide etched into the top of the tooth I show it to them and explain why it is there.

 

[Tree Machine]

Pretty awesome thread, Guys. I went up to my Grandpa's place this last week. I was rifeling through his garage and he had over a hundred spent 16" chain loops hanging on a wall! I don't think the guy ever threw a used chain away.

I was fingering through the collection, seeing if there were any salvagable chains there. I realized he used .050 gauge, and I use .058, so nothing there for me. All of the chains had teeth that were about halfway through their useful life, and then he retired them. Upon closer inspection I noticed not a single chain had the rakers filed back. I saw a lot of rakers that had the tippy tops rather highly polished and a good number of the chain's teeth were actually sharp, but it all came clear; no one had ever told him about filing down the rakers.

 

[Tree Machine]

Most people use more hook and horse off the rakers to try to compensate for a dull chain instead of sharpening it properly.......it puts a sharp aggressive but delicate edge on a tooth.

I'm guilty of this, except for the dull part. I'll often touch up a chain even when it's not truly in need. This because, as Crofter says, the tooth is a bit more delicate and sensitive. It's a trade-off in getting the 'sharp-aggressive'. It's a magical feel when, as Mike says, you get a fast, smooth, straight cut, expecially with the big saws through big wood.

I've adopted using a hatchet to shave away the circumference of the bark before doing an ALAP cut on the base of a takedown. A minute removing the sand and grit from the cut line will often save me having to resharpen. I take pride in sharpening a chain, but don't particularly enjoy it.

 

[Tree Machine]

Straight smooth fast.

 

[Scars2prove-it]

Tree Machine, Next time just grab that hose and blast the dirt off.

 

[Tree Machine]

I don't think it would be as complete, as quick or as dry. I've always got an axe on board, hose and water not always available. Wet mud, never an asset.

 

[Old Monkey]

This is a good thread. One thing that works for me is that if I dull the chain I stop right away and put licks on it. A lot of guys bare down harder and try to finish the job with a dull saw. I find this greatly increases the time it takes to sharpen the teeth. I also like to put licks on my saws while they're still sharp. It sounds weird but I find it easier to keep a sharp saw sharp. I tell my groundies to bring me dulled saws straight away. I hate seeing guys cut with dull saws. Clearance, a half-moon sounds too deep into your gullet. I usually picture it as a cresting wave. Stumper, I was always told to use a ten degree "up" angle. I can't quite picture what the advantage is to a ten degree down angle. Are there any pics of a cutter like this? Have any of you tried back filing? That is filing from the point in. I tried it when I was on a fire crew and found it to be sharper but it destroyed files and made a god awful noise. Fun to try though. I also new a guy named Rob Burney, a good faller who used a triangular file on his cutting teeth.


I still think that no one can accurately file their rakers free hand.

 

[Stumper]

Monkey, It makes the bevel of the edge at the corner longer/finer/sharper. That is a trade off-if you rock out the damage is greater but it cuts better in clean wood. Accurate raker filing IS possible freehand (Sneaky trick number 462: Lay the flat file across the tops of the teeth and eyeball the gap. It is pretty easy to make them all the same if you check them.)

 

[Brock2saws]

Man, what a great thread. Finally we're talking about something that has application to tree work.

Sharpening chains is one of my weakest skills but like most things, I'm getting better with practice. I think one of the most impt steps in helping a beginner to sharpen a chain is to have them understand: a) how the cutter and raker works (as Maas so eloquently outlined); and b) where/how the file must be placed in order to optimize the cutter and rakers' function.

These two concepts, until understood, have the propensity to leave ppl (even those who can put a moderate edge on) with the feeling that sharpening is "intuitive" leaving the uninitiated with a sense that the process is somehow "magic." But it's relatively simple, you just have to understand the characteristics of wood and the engineering of the cutter and raker.

Well done fellas, you've helped me a great deal. I'm looking forward to sharpening again.

BAB

 

[Old Monkey]

These two concepts, until understood, have the propensity to leave ppl (even those who can put a moderate edge on) with the feeling that sharpening is "intuitive" leaving the uninitiated with a sense that the process is somehow "magic."
BAB

I think some people deliberately sharpen poorly just to get someone else to do it for them, "I can't do it as good as you...here you do it." I've been sharpening chains since '89. I'm much better at it now and hope to be better at it later, if I'm not too arthritic. I try to remember how it was for me when I was starting out. I give some pointers and then let them blunder through it on their own(on their saws ofcourse).

 

[Crofter]

The terms to define the file angle in regard to top plate angle are often confusion. The usual method to round file is from inside to out to prevent chatter. If you notice the top plate is (usually) inclined downward toward the centreline of the chain. To get a consistant bevel all the way across the top cutter you should match this angle with your file. Some people refer to down handle, or filing down and others refer to the same thing as filing upward. It is also possible to lower the handle even more than the top plate slope and achieve more hook at the trailing edge. This edge does the least work and can survive being of a more slender profile. It also renders a more sharp side cutter angle and more vulnerable corner to the leading edge. Advanced move that. Get plain vanilla down pat first.