hand filing

[jamie]

enjoyment

i enjoy sitting down sharpening a chain at lunchtime, knowing that when i get up the saw will cut like a dream.i take pride in a razor sharp chain. hit something stop and sharpen. that and i got a roasting when i sharpened it wrong/ took to long.

jamie

 

[Tree Machine]

Mebbe I'm just paranoid

Did anyone else notice today, that when you were sharpening your chain there was this little Mike Maas sitting on your shoulder critically eyeing your sharpening job? :Eye:

 

[Stumper]

Did anyone else notice today, that when you were sharpening your chain there was this little Mike Maas sitting on your shoulder critically eyeing your sharpening job? :Eye:

Spring is here-the pests are out. (We love you Mike-ya pest.) :angel:

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Here's a cutter angle that would cut through a paper bag. Anyone want to guess why?

 

[Tree Machine]

It would cut through the paper bag because no matter what the condition of a chain, a paper bag is no match?????? What izzackly you mean, Boss?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There are four cutting angles of the cutter in this picture. Outside sideplate angle (hook angle), inside sideplate angle, outside topplate angle, and inside topplate angle.
Each one is important. As I said before, the outside sideplate angle is by far the most imoprtant. The ideal angle is such that it hits the fiber straight across.
If you've followed me this far, you're wondering, how a curved angle can hit a bundle of fibers straight across. It can't. That's why square ground is faster, it can.

 

[Tree Machine]

The size of the round file used on this tooth was a size too big, yes? Wait, the file size is OK, but the filer had the file too high up in the gullet.

Please continue.

 

[Crofter]

It was filed handle high. Hook is excessive yet not filed to the bottom of the gullet so I would guess that a too small file was used.

 

[Tree Machine]

By the looks of the gullet scarring, I'm not so sure it was done with a file. The cutting edges of a file are more or less perpendicular to the curved face of the gullet and wouldn't have created those long, horizontal striations. That tooth looks to have been done with a wheel, a coarse one at that, and the wheel was not adjusted downward enough.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The cutter was filed by hand, see the shavings? the outside hook angle is way too steep. The file was to low.
In regard to the file handle been too high or low, it was too high, see the striations? They show the angle the file was held.
How high or low you hold the file handle determines the inside top plate angle.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

What is confusing you is the tooth is magnified. Before you argue with me more on this, file a cutter and look at it with a magnifying glass.
The teeth on a file do spiral, but when you push it straight across a cutter, it leaves straight lines. And a grinder does not leave metal shavings like you see stuck on the tie straps.

The point is moot because the principle I'm trying to explain is the 4 different cutter angles and what they each do, along with raker height and shape. For the sake of these points, it doesn't matter if you grind the angles or file them.

 

[Crofter]

I think the "smart money" is on the Maas. Pictures do funny things to perspective. I see another possibility. Se the remains of the original factory grind angle in the botton of the gullet. I assume that ange to be 25 / 30 degree and the one made by the file being much straighter across. Makes the file marks appear that the handle was high. Definitely too low on the tooth at the side plate. Could that be filed for ripping?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Ripping is an interesting topic to bring up now. Think about that board with the chisel I posted earlier.
When you rip cut, very little fiber gets cut. It's mostly like when you are pushing the file in the same direction of the grain in the board. As the cutter enters the wood, it cuts just a few fibers and then drags between the fibers making long strips of wood shaving.
The top plate and side plate sort of reverse rolls. The top plate does most of the fiber cutting and the side plate just separates the grain.
The outside top plate angle (that's the angle you see if you look straight down on the chain) now becomes the attack angle. You want it to hit the wood grain straight on. So ripping chains have almost no outside top plate angle.

The red line shows what a ripping angle might look like, the orange line shows a typical top plate angle.

 

[Lumberjack]

I am following your post carefully mike, I didnt know you had so much understanding of this topic.

Also on ripping chains every other pair of top plate is baisically removed.

I find that my working chain is acceptable for ripping pieces into managable pieces, I have never used a ripping chain though, I am sure there is an appreciatable difference.

The only time I get long stringy chips is when I cut with the bar running parallel to the log, such as if the log was laying in front of you and you set the dogs on the butt end of the log and cut down. It can be minimized by keeping the powerhead lower or higher than the tip.

 

[Crofter]

It seems harder to get good self feeding when doing 90 degree ripping. I have made up quite a few ripping chains by removing various amounts of the top plate. The teeth penetrate better and spend more time cutting intead of scraping and dulling themselves. Though you have removed almost half of your cutting edge it seems to cut faster and stay sharp longer. This is more noticeable on hard and dry wood.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

The one angle I haven't defined is the inside side plate. I couldn't figure out how to show the angle in the picture, so I just drew a circle.
A blunt angle will be short here, and a sharp angle will be long, if that makes sense.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Square ground cutters are easier to show the 4 angles. So here is a test to see if Lumberjack can name them.

 

[Lumberjack]

Square ground cutters are easier to show the 4 angles. So here is a test to see if Lumberjack can name them.

A: Top Plate
B: Hook angle
C: Chisel Angle
D: Side plate angleEDIT: I see you called that "Inside side plate angle"

Hows that?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Carl, that pic needs to be at least TEN times bigger! Get with the program!

 

[Lumberjack]

Hows this MB? You can take off your glasses now.