heck of a saw week

[hammerlogging]

My my.

Running a 460. Working a block, modified shelterwood. About 60% slope, not toooo bad. Just another tall straight chestnut oak. Going sideslope. Bore cut (east coast style) cutting out, sh!t I guess I trimmed the hinge a little narrow (<3/4 inch) damn thing peeld around (of course I was on the downhill side where cutting is at waist level) broke off and smashed the fuel tank and handle, air filter etc., and the muffler, a top to bottom compression. That saw was out, got the parts to fix it, but not the time yet. Ran a company 660 for 1 1/2 days and a seal in the oiler went out-dumping bar oil out the middle of the saw. Out. Ran a company 460 for a day, then swithched to another company 660. Today the chain brake (of which I am a habitual user) broke, had to remove it and cut the rest of the day, 30 min. from the end of the day, walking up a steep slope, calks on rock, slipped, dumped saw on shoulder and what do you know, the little aluminum air port where the filter cover screws tight to the, well, carb., that threaded stem broke. Never seen that break. Ah, Sunday, plenty of saw work.

But, I have the parts for the 660 too, and both the 460 and 660 will be good (as new?) by Monday, plus as many chains as I can get to. Lots of $ in spare parts lost though.

One of those weeks. Was a week full of good timber though.

 

[matt9923]

Jeez. I couldn't do that much damage with a hammer.
Hopefully just a bad week.

 

[forestryworks]

makes me think of the social distortion song "bad luck"

hope you're up and running soon

 

[tramp bushler]

having smashed a few saws @ the stump I can empathize with you .......... Did the tree lean up the hill or down ... Only time you stand down hill of a tree at the stump is when it leans hard up the hill .......... Sometimes you can grab the starter rope , step back a little and pull hard , often the tree will give you a half sec to get the power head free before it smashes it ........ Yall must have some hard rocks if your corks slipped .............. Glad your ok tho .....

 

[slowp]

Sounds like you need a lot of duck tape, and a strong beverage. The pink tape is pretty strong. It has lasted 2 months taped to the asphalt on the road as Mile Marker 1. Yes, I think the pink will be the best for your saw repair.

 

[hammerlogging]

having smashed a few saws @ the stump I can empathize with you .......... Did the tree lean up the hill or down ... Only time you stand down hill of a tree at the stump is when it leans hard up the hill .......... Sometimes you can grab the starter rope , step back a little and pull hard , often the tree will give you a half sec to get the power head free before it smashes it ........ Yall must have some hard rocks if your corks slipped .............. Glad your ok tho .....

Agreed tramp, but I must ask for a calculated exception. I had trimmed the hinge too small. No, I shouldn't be under the lean, and am not on heavy leaners. This one was not a heavy leaner- yes iwas under the lean some, but not too much. So, for the sake of production, and ergonomics, and comfort, I'm prone to facing on the downhill side, and getting my bore in from there too. BUT, there is always tons of wood still holding as I transfer my body position further behind the tree as I ontinue the cut... stop.... last glance up and double check the escape route....release, escape, looking up. slam. At worst, I am 90 degrees from where she wants to go on her own. I was circling around toward the back when this one twisted/root pulled way early cause of small hinge but it twisted and rolled I tried to get her out but I had to bail.

Safety first.

Also, we run longish bars, for safety, and higher production as well, and bore cutting a 32" bar on the uphill side cutting sideslope is a pain.

 

[hammerlogging]

Sounds like you need a lot of duck tape, and a strong beverage. The pink tape is pretty strong. It has lasted 2 months taped to the asphalt on the road as Mile Marker 1. Yes, I think the pink will be the best for your saw repair.

I'll have a 460 and a 660 running full on by Monday and a new 660 on the way. I think one large pink polka dot would be a nice effect, maybe crooked over the starter and up on the top sort of. I have the pink paint already, use it on my axe. It'll help keep the mental state right. Don't take things quite too seriously, eh?

Ah, sounds bad, but it just goes in waves like that.

 

[2dogs]

Agreed tramp, but I must ask for a calculated exception. I had trimmed the hinge too small. No, I shouldn't be under the lean, and am not on heavy leaners. This one was not a heavy leaner- yes iwas under the lean some, but not too much. So, for the sake of production, and ergonomics, and comfort, I'm prone to facing on the downhill side, and getting my bore in from there too. BUT, there is always tons of wood still holding as I transfer my body position further behind the tree as I ontinue the cut... stop.... last glance up and double check the escape route....release, escape, looking up. slam. At worst, I am 90 degrees from where she wants to go on her own. I was circling around toward the back when this one twisted/root pulled way early cause of small hinge but it twisted and rolled I tried to get her out but I had to bail.

Safety first.

Also, we run longish bars, for safety, and higher production as well, and bore cutting a 32" bar on the uphill side cutting sideslope is a pain.

First off I didn't think there are any bars longer than 20" east of the Rockies. :greenchainsaw: You must get some looks running a 32 incher.

What I hear from your first post is just a simple telling of the facts. No whinning. The mark of a man. Sorry about your saw and having to run a company saw. I work on my saw every night after work even if it just to sharpen it with a Granberg jig. (The Granberg makes up for my lousy chain sharpening skills and leaves an edge like a razor.) The company saws are never sharp and the air cleaners are ALWAYS dirty. ALWAYS!

Now... about learning to use a Humbldt with as Dutchman. Just kidding.

 

[tramp bushler]

Pics Requested Please!!!!

Hammer ; I,m trying to get a mental pic of how you do this .. How big is the timber ??? I can,t understand why you would bore in , es

pecially if you are quartering them down hill ????????? Good typing skills , huh ...

 

[John Ellison]

. Only time you stand down hill of a tree at the stump is when it leans hard up the hill .......... Sometimes you can grab the starter rope , step back a little and pull hard , often the tree will give you a half sec to get the power head free before it smashes it ........

Yep, if it is a slow motion deal you can run your tape thru the handle and take off with the end.

Somedays the "wear and tear" on equipment is a lot worse than others. Its good that it was nothing major and you did'nt get hurt. It kills me to be looking right at a saw and watch it get smashed into the ground.

Making cuts on the lower or off side of a tree is just all wrong to me. Sometimes you have to, if there is something in the way. At least if it were me I would feel a lot more vulnerable and would be slower than normal or would be smashing a lot of saws. You can get away with a lot if you are on the upper side and guess at the lower side of the hinge. But the other way around you can't get away with anything. I have heard of guys cutting that way but it is completely foreign to me. Is that a standard practice on hillsides?
I hope it does'nt seem like I am attacking you, because I enjoy your posts and can tell you are an accomplished faller.

 

[tramp bushler]

. . Ya Hammer ; ya gotta help us out here ............... How big a timber are you fallin .. I,ve a number of trees 7 foot on the stump with a 32" bar and the only boring cut I made was for a Siswheel swing cut ... And I kinda hogged out the heart from the face side , but not boring it out .... Standing on the down hill side of a tree you are falling is plain dangerous , and you seem like a good production cutter .... Need more info .!!!! Soon too as on Monday I,m flying into Moose camp for a week or 2 .......

 

[hammerlogging]

yes the underside is the bad side, but if its not that bad of a downhill lean then I'll face from there because that puts the face at waist level instead of ground level. I'll dogear the sapwood off the uphill side to keep wood from tearing up the trunk, and barely nip the sapwood on the downhill side as I take my tip from resting on the horizontal of the face cuts and slip around to bor in behind the hinge.

I bore cut because it is hard wood. I bore more than the other fallers I work with but its the right way to cut hardwood. Barberchairing is very easy on hardwood- not always the explosive kind, but you're still getting some fracture on that butt. So the bore avoids that. The long bar is so I can bore through almost all of the timber, and face cut from only one side, way faster than the normal 20 or 24 inch east coast bars.

The danger element: Yes, I'm working under the lean, but am out from under the lean and behind the tree while there is still 40-50% of the holding wood still remaining. This one just messed up, yes, thats how you get killed, but it wasn't a close call or anything, it peeled off the hinge and the remaining holding wood ripped a big root out. I obviously misjudged this one, it counts as a wake up call, it must have had more downhill lean than I took it for. But, I am cutting form the uphill side ("good side") about 1/3 of the time for the sake of this safety factor- I just pushed the boundary on this one, but I was already getting behind the intended direction of fall when she peeled off on me.

I am falling 80 y.o timber, this is second growth from when this fine land was logged out before your ancestors moved out west to the next virgin timber. Sometimes the remains from what was logged in the 80's, sometimes it wasn't logged in the 80s, thats where the timber is really sweet. Generally 24-34 inches across the stump, about 40-50 of sawtimber and usually a stick of pulpwood on the top.

Not all trees are this size, this is the sawtimber. Theres plenty of 12-16" dbh trees in there too- supressed hardwoods and co-dominants. These various canopy classes make uneven aged management tree selection on our productive sites questionable-- the selective stuff, uneven aged mgmt, is best for the lower quality sites, thus our emphasis on small clearcuts (where heavy to poplar) alternated with modified shelterwoods on oakier sites (less heavy to poplar) and then selective harvesting on our points and south/ soutwest faces.

 

[hammerlogging]

I cut for about 2 years with a 20" bar. Usually facing from both sides, and boring from both sides, sometimes having to bore in from the face. Thats a whole lot of maneauviering to get a tree on the ground.
Then I cut with some ex heli dudes. The conversation went like this:

"Why do you cut with that little bar?"
"Here in the east we pride ourselves on being able to cut a 50" tree with a 20 inch bar"

"Yeah, we can to, only these are a whole lot safer, and faster too, try this 28incher for a day"

So I did. And my production went way up. And, it was way safer, trimming limbs with lots of tension, having that extra space. And, walking the trunk limbing off the little branches, everything is just like at your fingertips. The other fallers i work with now run 30" but I am taller so I run a 32, for this trunk walking thing. Zip zip zip.

I can't let my 460 bite as hard as it wants too in the bigger wood or it bogs down, have to keep that chain speed up, and the chain has to be perfectly sharp, but I keep up with the 660's anyhow. But, I like the 660's if all the timber is running bigger.

2dogs, yes, similar story on our company saws.

 

[hammerlogging]

Working steep drains where I HAVE to fall across the drain I've done the stepped blocked out face humbolt thing to get the butt to hit before the tip. On heavier leaners I've (from the uphill side!) nipped off a bit of the downhill side of the hinge before I continue the backcut to complete the uphill side of the hinge (still open faced though) for a dutchmen like effect- working on backcutting a little more. This would be on polars- grow tall and straight. its a soft hardwood and we fallers LOVE good poplar patches.

Wait till I explain the "side band swarp notch", now thats some deep Appalachia tree swingin'. Not recommended.

 

[slowp]

Working steep drains where I HAVE to fall across the drain I've done the stepped blocked out face humbolt thing to get the butt to hit before the tip. On heavier leaners I've (from the uphill side!) nipped off a bit of the downhill side of the hinge before I continue the backcut to complete the uphill side of the hinge (still open faced though) for a dutchmen like effect- working on backcutting a little more. This would be on polars- grow tall and straight. its a soft hardwood and we fallers LOVE good poplar patches.

Wait till I explain the "side band swarp notch", now thats some deep Appalachia tree swingin'. Not recommended.

AT last! Somebody else uses the term Swarp. Which used to be commonly used in this valley. I use it at times--the phrase. Right now I'm swarping out the big room. Actually, getting tired of it.
OK, sorry, back to cutting.... opcorn:

 

[BlackenedTimber]

In one week, I had the same groundie back the chipper over two different 361s, demolishing both. Later in that week, had a dude set a 200t behind the bucket truck after removing a large white birch. Driver backed over the 200t, destroying it.

It was a bad week, I feel your pain bro.

Oh, and then the following week, the same dude that crushed the 361s decided to open up his face cut on a large ash spur after having already started the back cut. Pinched the bar as the spar was dropping, and ran. Crushed a relatively new 440. He didnt work for me after that.

Then the neighbor wanted to borrow the chipper for some brush... threw some old boards through it (though denied that to the end) and knocked the edge off of the drum knives, and actually chipped the blades. Must jave been some nails in there...

Oh, the headaches...

 

[matt9923]

In one week, I had the same groundie back the chipper over two different 361s, demolishing both. Later in that week, had a dude set a 200t behind the bucket truck after removing a large white birch. Driver backed over the 200t, destroying it.

It was a bad week, I feel your pain bro.

Oh, and then the following week, the same dude that crushed the 361s decided to open up his face cut on a large ash spur after having already started the back cut. Pinched the bar as the spar was dropping, and ran. Crushed a relatively new 440. He didnt work for me after that.

Then the neighbor wanted to borrow the chipper for some brush... threw some old boards through it (though denied that to the end) and knocked the edge off of the drum knives, and actually chipped the blades. Must jave been some nails in there...

Oh, the headaches...

I learned not to lend equipment the hard way. Its worse when they deny it.

 

[BlackenedTimber]

Yeah, no one plays with my toys but me nowadays. Too expensive to correct other people's mistakes.

Not to mention that the common man seems to have little appreciation for the blood, sweat, tears, and determination that enabled us to buy our equipment in the first place.

 

[Greystoke]

yes the underside is the bad side, but if its not that bad of a downhill lean then I'll face from there because that puts the face at waist level instead of ground level. I'll dogear the sapwood off the uphill side to keep wood from tearing up the trunk, and barely nip the sapwood on the downhill side as I take my tip from resting on the horizontal of the face cuts and slip around to bor in behind the hinge.

I bore cut because it is hard wood. I bore more than the other fallers I work with but its the right way to cut hardwood. Barberchairing is very easy on hardwood- not always the explosive kind, but you're still getting some fracture on that butt. So the bore avoids that. The long bar is so I can bore through almost all of the timber, and face cut from only one side, way faster than the normal 20 or 24 inch east coast bars.

The danger element: Yes, I'm working under the lean, but am out from under the lean and behind the tree while there is still 40-50% of the holding wood still remaining. This one just messed up, yes, thats how you get killed, but it wasn't a close call or anything, it peeled off the hinge and the remaining holding wood ripped a big root out. I obviously misjudged this one, it counts as a wake up call, it must have had more downhill lean than I took it for. But, I am cutting form the uphill side ("good side") about 1/3 of the time for the sake of this safety factor- I just pushed the boundary on this one, but I was already getting behind the intended direction of fall when she peeled off on me.

I am falling 80 y.o timber, this is second growth from when this fine land was logged out before your ancestors moved out west to the next virgin timber. Sometimes the remains from what was logged in the 80's, sometimes it wasn't logged in the 80s, thats where the timber is really sweet. Generally 24-34 inches across the stump, about 40-50 of sawtimber and usually a stick of pulpwood on the top.

Not all trees are this size, this is the sawtimber. Theres plenty of 12-16" dbh trees in there too- supressed hardwoods and co-dominants. These various canopy classes make uneven aged management tree selection on our productive sites questionable-- the selective stuff, uneven aged mgmt, is best for the lower quality sites, thus our emphasis on small clearcuts (where heavy to poplar) alternated with modified shelterwoods on oakier sites (less heavy to poplar) and then selective harvesting on our points and south/ soutwest faces.

I agree that it is hard wood! I remember some of the oaks and other hard woods in Northern Florida when I was working there for Columbia...Hard as a rock and they do barber chair easy.

 

[Greystoke]

I cut for about 2 years with a 20" bar. Usually facing from both sides, and boring from both sides, sometimes having to bore in from the face. Thats a whole lot of maneauviering to get a tree on the ground.

Then I cut with some ex heli dudes. The conversation went like this:

"Why do you cut with that little bar?"
"Here in the east we pride ourselves on being able to cut a 50" tree with a 20 inch bar"

"Yeah, we can to, only these are a whole lot safer, and faster too, try this 28incher for a day"

So I did. And my production went way up. And, it was way safer, trimming limbs with lots of tension, having that extra space. And, walking the trunk limbing off the little branches, everything is just like at your fingertips. The other fallers i work with now run 30" but I am taller so I run a 32, for this trunk walking thing. Zip zip zip.

I can't let my 460 bite as hard as it wants too in the bigger wood or it bogs down, have to keep that chain speed up, and the chain has to be perfectly sharp, but I keep up with the 660's anyhow. But, I like the 660's if all the timber is running bigger.

2dogs, yes, similar story on our company saws.

I remember the guys that were local loggers that Columbia contracted to work the landing looking puzzled at our 32" and some 36" bars. They have a whole different method back there and it is good to see someone who has come around to some of our "PNW" ways That was the first time that I had ever been called a "Stumper". By the way, sorry about your chainsaw...I would not know how that feels because I have NEVER smashed a saw:angel:...Just Joking! I will say that grabbing the starter handle and holdin on to the bitter end has worked to my advantage before...you just have to know when to let go. I have also tried the tape measure trick before but my tape broke and somehow my saw had an invisible forcefield around it that day! Dang snags in Alaska were the worst for testing my invisible forcefields!:censored: