hey fallers, 45 or sideslope?

[hammerlogging]

So, I was cutting a nice big clearcut over the past few days, actually just an opening, but lets say we now have a gap about 250' deep and about 1000' long, before I rounded a point and transitioned into a shelterwood.

So, its averaging about 60% slope. Pretty steep, not too bad of ground though. I sidesloped the whole block (except what just wouldn't). Sure is pretty, and less up and down for limbing and topping. One of the other fallers prefers 45ing a slope because he says it safer topping, less chance of things rolling down on you from above.

Any input?

 

[slowp]

Disclaimer: I am not a faller, nor do I intend to be one.

Ok, but I can offer some input. My question is, what is easier for the yarder/skidder?

I once took a vacation and my boss took over my work. He had a severe conversation with the fallers. He wanted the unit cut with trees at the 45 angle towards the skid trails. The fallers complied. I came back. Trees were getting scarred more than usual. I talked to the skidder operators and they said they weren't used to working that method. I told them to go back to the way they were doing things, pre boss, and the damage stopped. I told my boss too. He agreed with what I did.

For a yarder in a partial cut, any angle that helps on the inhaul is good. But safety is the first priority.

 

[oregoncutter]

we usually get a unit map showing how everything needs to be laid out based on where the yarder will be sitting, normally You want a straight shot for skidding the logs, and allmost allways they want logs laying straight up and down the hill, less chance of them rolling over someone throughout the time they are on the ground, and when You go to pull em in theres less tendecy for em to roll (bad thing). I have cut jobs where due to the fact the yarder was only able to sit in certain spots I have had to lay em down at 45s or 90s to the slope allthogh most the jobs are steep enuf they roll away from you

 

[bullbuck]

we have two d6c low track winch cats with chokers so we tend to get all of the steeper units in our area,our fallers get paid by the piece so they do not have time to mess around with wedges or anything like that,where its headed is where it goes,but just as a personal favor to me the cat skinner i ask that they try to get at least 10 to 15 degrees downhill lay on their trees,i cannot ask much more of them because they will tire quite a bit more getting back up to the next tree to be fell,but if they do give me 10 to 15 on these partial cut units it usually gets the but log below the next lower tree where as when i drive directly downhill when choked i can pull it out and down to keep from scarring the leave trees,but if they sidehill at a 90 alot of logs get busted and trees torn up for on steep ground once you bail in you are committed alot of times i will stand on my blade and visualize my path and spot the bucks and stumps before i dive in helps alot because on steep ground cats really dont turn too well,years ago we had a link belt with 1600 foot main line?i think?anyways my boss would fall the corridors for them and they wanted everything perfectly sidehill in the corridors

 

[056kid]

Where is you cutting at?

Cable riggin??

 

[hammerlogging]

Since its a silvicultural clearcut (opening-- less than 2.5 acres, right?) leave tree damage not an issue. Its going to be logged uphill with jammers- essentially a shovel with a tong thrower package but retrofitted with a choker and a dead weight for throwing to the hookers. Pretty good lift, not like with a skyline, but way better than off a fairlead on a skidder or dozer. Logged of course from uphill to downhill so shouldn't creat more danger to the hookers. So essentially its a question only about the falling/limbing/topping. But, thanks for the replies.

 

[BarkBuster20]

So, I was cutting a nice big clearcut over the past few days, actually just an opening, but lets say we now have a gap about 250' deep and about 1000' long, before I rounded a point and transitioned into a shelterwood.

So, its averaging about 60% slope. Pretty steep, not too bad of ground though. I sidesloped the whole block (except what just wouldn't). Sure is pretty, and less up and down for limbing and topping. One of the other fallers prefers 45ing a slope because he says it safer topping, less chance of things rolling down on you from above.

Any input?

uhm im sorry but what your doing will get you killed just two cents from a west coast faller, fall the downhill it is generally easier to yard out and 100% safer. its all easy and pretty till a log rolls over you. then your just dead.

 

[hammerlogging]

uhm im sorry but what your doing will get you killed just two cents from a west coast faller, fall the downhill it is generally easier to yard out and 100% safer. its all easy and pretty till a log rolls over you. then your just dead.

10/4: should listen to gut, I know a time or two sidesloping in a clearcut can open you up for something rolling down on you,. Should be a no-brainer, if it can happen it will. Thanks for the 2 cents. But, then again, not positive on this one. Sidesloping is common, and leaving some high stumps here and there holding things on the slope, and seeing if what you're working on is or is not touching something sketchy, basically awareness of surroundings, that bad?

 

[arboralliance]

we have two d6c low track winch cats with chokers so we tend to get all of the steeper units in our area,our fallers get paid by the piece so they do not have time to mess around with wedges or anything like that,where its headed is where it goes,but just as a personal favor to me the cat skinner i ask that they try to get at least 10 to 15 degrees downhill lay on their trees,i cannot ask much more of them because they will tire quite a bit more getting back up to the next tree to be fell,but if they do give me 10 to 15 on these partial cut units it usually gets the but log below the next lower tree where as when i drive directly downhill when choked i can pull it out and down to keep from scarring the leave trees,but if they sidehill at a 90 alot of logs get busted and trees torn up for on steep ground once you bail in you are committed alot of times i will stand on my blade and visualize my path and spot the bucks and stumps before i dive in helps alot because on steep ground cats really dont turn too well,years ago we had a link belt with 1600 foot main line?i think?anyways my boss would fall the corridors for them and they wanted everything perfectly sidehill in the corridors

No advice on that "Q" sorry HL, we were clear felling old growth with D10's n winches v-different to silviculture...

Where it went mostly but always wedging, yeh rolling logs dont ask questions or take prisoners...

Re the quote bullbuck, we had a 324D Excavator w horizontal grab spit a track last week, lucky had another 324D on site to help lift the limper but still nearly a day on the steep ground to egt it back on... I bailed to other jobs n left operators n foremen to it, ah the joy of bein a suby...

 

[bullbuck]

i hear you arbor,we used to only have one d6,it would get i little sketchy shoving it around with the 380grapple on the steeps,when we got the second cat it made it nice you could shove the wounded soldier of the hill,and closer to the low boy if needed

 

[BarkBuster20]

10/4: should listen to gut, I know a time or two sidesloping in a clearcut can open you up for something rolling down on you,. Should be a no-brainer, if it can happen it will. Thanks for the 2 cents. But, then again, not positive on this one. Sidesloping is common, and leaving some high stumps here and there holding things on the slope, and seeing if what you're working on is or is not touching something sketchy, basically awareness of surroundings, that bad?

it can be done, and is done, but dont let that give you a false sense of security. and trust me, everytime you do it your gambling with your life. being a faller is dangerous enough as it is, dont try to kill yourself.

 

[bullbuck]

it can be done, and is done, but dont let that give you a false sense of security. and trust me, everytime you do it your gambling with your life. being a faller is dangerous enough as it is, dont try to kill yourself.

words of wisdom there,when i first started i was told "it is what you dont see that gets you"this keeps me punchy to this day.

 

[oregoncutter]

words of wisdom there,when i first started i was told "it is what you dont see that gets you"this keeps me punchy to this day.

Kind of off topic of rolling trees, but I have had my fair share of rocks from pebble size to vokswagen size break loose uphill from me when I am cutting.

 

[bullbuck]

Kind of off topic of rolling trees, but I have had my fair share of rocks from pebble size to vokswagen size break loose uphill from me when I am cutting.

i dislike this topic also but,there was a landing man in this area just walking the deck minding his own business when a rock kicked loose from a dozer way up on the ridge found its way directly to him,and it cost him his life,just a bad deal

 

[captainsteep]

nice to see you working, I have found that its better to cut that way for the chocker setters because its easer and faster to pick up you got less tops to deal with and when you are done with a area it looks nice.

 

[hammerlogging]

yeah, and blocks are cut from downhill to uphill, so its not like its a whole mountain's worth there above you laid out.

If/when there is a processor working behind the initial extraction and so we have no limbing and topping except for the largest stems, then dumping downhill is a no-brianer.

 

[tramp bushler]

Now hold it here .. Did you start your strip from the bottom of the unit ,or the top ....... You always start at the bottom and work up .... I try to always keep my timber @ about 15 degrees below level ... Meaning , I want the tops to be below the butt , but not so much I,m spending all day UP AND DOWN the hill..... A little down lets the tree run out a little and isn,t such a sudden stop so I break alot less of the log .. Push the break out into the tops is how I was taught ...
.
. starting at the bottom and working up as you go back and forth across the hill will have almost no logs above you .....
Falling them straight down the mountain will mostly get you sent walkin down the road ,kickin rocks mad and talkin to yourself up here ............

 

[BarkBuster20]

Now hold it here .. Did you start your strip from the bottom of the unit ,or the top ....... You always start at the bottom and work up .... I try to always keep my timber @ about 15 degrees below level ... Meaning , I want the tops to be below the butt , but not so much I,m spending all day UP AND DOWN the hill..... A little down lets the tree run out a little and isn,t such a sudden stop so I break alot less of the log .. Push the break out into the tops is how I was taught ...
.
. starting at the bottom and working up as you go back and forth across the hill will have almost no logs above you .....
Falling them straight down the mountain will mostly get you sent walkin down the road ,kickin rocks mad and talkin to yourself up here ............

i dissagree with you. most of the time you need to go straight down the mountain, the yarder is generally on the landing which is generally above where your working lol. always fall safely, anything else is dumb. and its not having trees above you thats the most dangerous part its the fact that you have something that gravity is trying to make roll down a hill , and countless variables when considering the terrain, makes for exceptionally dangerous limbing, its as bad as falling uphill and should be done about as often.

 

[Metals406]

Now hold it here .. Did you start your strip from the bottom of the unit ,or the top ....... You always start at the bottom and work up .... I try to always keep my timber @ about 15 degrees below level ... Meaning , I want the tops to be below the butt , but not so much I,m spending all day UP AND DOWN the hill..... A little down lets the tree run out a little and isn,t such a sudden stop so I break alot less of the log .. Push the break out into the tops is how I was taught ...
.
. starting at the bottom and working up as you go back and forth across the hill will have almost no logs above you .....
Falling them straight down the mountain will mostly get you sent walkin down the road ,kickin rocks mad and talkin to yourself up here ............

That's generally how our sawyers laid out for us, or 45° (ish) to horizontal of the slope. It worked well for yarding.

 

[tramp bushler]

Bark , you hav'nt cut timber up here have you ??
. You can disagree all you want , but you don,t fall timber straight down the mountain unless you have to .........
.
.
. I can just see someone doing that . Up here you work your lead with the ground and wind .. We have lots of both that change real often ......
.
. Hopefully guys like Hump or John Ellison , or others who have cut in both places will reply .... If you are falling slightly down hill and keep a little bit of a belly in your strip , you won,t have logs above you ........