HF Chain Grinder Thread

[Wood Doctor]

Summary (sort of) . . .

6 years and 16 pages (!), based on a taunting dare from a fellow member. At one point, I had 11 of these puppies in my basement, trying out different variations. I still refer people to this thread when they ask about HF grinders. So, here is sort of an interim summary. 'Interim', because I may get drawn down that rabbit hole again.

- These grinders are attractive due to their low price. But they also take up little space in use; are compact and portable to transport and store; and pretty quiet, compared to 'conventional' grinders. In a sense, they are 'cute'!

- They have limited power and limited adjustability.

- If you are satisfied with the 'standard', fixed angles, are mostly 'touching up' worn edges, and understand what a finished cutter looks like, you can absolutely improve chains with these tools. If you are planning on custom angles, fixing badly damaged chains, or setting up a sharpening service, keep looking.

- Many of these are of 'modest' quality (some are junk). Repair or replacement parts may not be available. Some of them are of decent quality, but those tend to cost more. Although, price and quality are not always linked, 'you get what you pay for', should be in the back of your mind.

- *The grinding wheels are critical*. Better wheels grind better. Some of the 'better' wheels cost more than some of the cheap grinders (!). Many of these grinders only accept 1/8" thick wheels, which means that you will need to reposition larger pitch chains (multiple passes) to get a 'proper' grind.

As with any grinder (or sharpening method), it takes some knowledge, some experience, and some skill to become competent and efficient. These could even be considered a low cost, fun thing to try, for less than the price of a couple of pizzas, movie tickets, etc., if you understand the limitations. I absolutely prefer my 5-3/4" Oregon / Tecomec grinders over these for regular use, but understand that the $200 - $300 price of these is more than some guys can justify. For some guys, filing chains is a better option.

Most of my 'HF-style' grinders have now been sold off on CraigsList or garage sales: I just was not going to use them. I did keep a pair of the Forester 04844 / Oregon 310-120 style grinders, with better quality wheels installed, for fun, light-duty use.
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/
All that rationale stuff aside, my head still turns instinctively when I see one in a store, on-line, CraigsList, garage sale, etc. I have to remind myself that I am not running a museum, adoption shelter for grinders, etc.

Philbert

I'd like to personally thank Philbert for encouraging me to put my HF grinder back into service. I use it primarily for lowering raker (depth gauge) height but it comes in handy now and then for other tasks. I still admire at how quiet it is because my ears need a break in the action now and then. My Oregon 511A is old and starting to sound like a tank as its motor bearings slowly give up.

I suppose the man who gave me my HF about nine years ago would be proud to know that I have it in service again. He passed away last August after a long battle with colon and lung cancer. I repaired his chain saws for quite some time and this was his only way of paying me for my work.

Be careful outdoors this weekend, Philbert. The weather boys are talking about some really cold air in our neck of the woods, and you can safely expect about -20 F where you are. Burrrrr...

 

[jetsam]

Better Quality Forester Grinding Wheels for HF Type Grinders

I've mentioned the importance of the wheels when grinding chains, and how good wheels can really be an improvement over some of the fine grit, red/brown wheels supplied with many of these low cost grinders. So I was happy to find these Forester brand wheels for the mini-grinders at that store where 'You Save BIG Money', especially with the price: $10 for a 'bonus pack', including an 1/8" and a 3/16" grinding wheel. This is lower than what these wheels list for individually on eBay.

View attachment 862342

As noted, the fit can be tricky: some grinding wheels have an ID of 7/8", and some 22mm. Even though they are close (and sometimes mislabeled) they have to match the arbor on your grinder. Too small and they will not fit. Too large and they wobble (or worse!).

I tried them on a few of the 'HF type' grinders that I have. They fit the older style, 'Chicago Electric' (Harbor Freight brand, without the bicycle brake lever chain vise), and the similar looking 'Nick the Grinder'. But they did not fit an identical looking 'Infinity' grinder (seriously, you could not tell these grinders apart, except for the colors). Forester says they will fit their grinder, and the Oregon models, but I do not have these to try. So keep your receipt and test fit them on yours.

As with the better quality Oregon wheel (Post #188), this made grinding fun! These smaller, lower powered, fixed angle grinders have their limits: they are good for restoring edges on cutters, but limited for fixed damaged teeth, custom angles, or doing depth gauges. But they are small, quiet, and inexpensive.

I went looking for more loops to sharpen. I did several 20" loops of STIHL .325 pitch chain and was pretty happy with the results.

View attachment 862344

Some of these grinders were only sold with the 1/8" wheels, which is too narrow for larger pitch chain. The 'Nick the Grinder' grinder took the 3/16" wheel with no problem. My 'Chicago Electric' grinder had enough threads on the arbor to hold the wheel, but will need a little trimming on the cover guard for additional clearance.

View attachment 862343

Nice to have decent quality, inexpensive grinding wheels to use with inexpensive grinders. So far, I have only seen this packaging at Menard's. Hopefully, it will become more available.

Philbert

@Philbert-

If you can recall.... if one was willing to modify the cover, would the arbor on the Chicago Electric be long enough to hold a 1/4" wheel?

I am toying with the idea of profiling a wheel for rakers, and just having a $30 raker machine sounds handy.

(Also, I blame you for this.... lol)

 

[Philbert]

... if one was willing to modify the cover, would the arbor on the Chicago Electric be long enough to hold a 1/4" wheel?

Pretty sure the answer is 'No'. Bit of a stretch even getting a 3/16" wheel to fit. But I was able to use that wheel to do some depth gauges with the Forester grinder:
Post #12 https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/

Philbert

 

[67L36Driver]

I have to run the cover loose on my Forester to accommodate the 3/16” thick wheel. [emoji19]

 

[Philbert]

I have to run the cover loose on my Forester to accommodate the 3/16” thick wheel.

Is it the wheel or the paper label that is rubbing?

About 6 posts back @Wood Doctor mentioned ‘shimming’ the side cover of his HF grinder with thin washers.

Philbert

 

[5155]

to the top for a friend to see the videos on page one.

 

[BerkshirePaws]

Yup today's "New and Improved" models usually mean that a product was modified to reduce the cost of production. Metal is replaced with plastic, machined parts replaced with stamped, etc. That a product no longer does the job as well as a previous model doesn't seem to matter to the bean counters. Not too many products made like a Henry rifle these days.

Ted

That’s because majority of people are as bad as the “bean counters”. May be junk but it’s cheap. Manufacturers and retailers are just giving people what they want.

 

[BerkshirePaws]

Good thread Philbert. A little background, I’m a “homeowner/ firewood hack”. I also spent years as a hydraulic tech/ mechanic. Been hand filing four over forty years, usually Stijl or a Granberg. I’d guess I end up sharpening chains about a dozen times a year.

I recently badly rocked a chain. Not looking forward to all the hand filing it would take to repair I decided to give a cheap grinder a go. Came down to the HF and the cheap Oregon. HF was less than half the price and the bicycle brake clamp looked like a great idea.

Well, this grinder reminded me of a lesson I learned ( and obviously forgot) many years ago. Don’t buy cheap tools.

As an exercise or experiment more power to you but this HF grinder is truly a POS though why anyone (including myself) would expect more for $30 is beyond me.

Flimsy plastic construction, check.
Anemic motor, check.
What was surprising was how bad the clamping mechanism is. What is really the deal breaker for me is how the center of the wheel is not centered over the vise. I haven’t measured but looks like an easy 3/16-1/4”.

I can rework the clamp and the flimsy chain stop. I can live with the pathetic motor. I just don’t see how to deal with the misaligned centerline. If someone has addressed this I’d love to see the fix.

My opinion is if time is money sharpening chains then buy quality. If you can’t justify dropping $250+ on a good quality grinder then My vote is to buy good quality files and guide and learn how to use them. It’s not that hard. A dull undamaged chain can be be sharpened to better than new in minutes. My badly rocked chain ended up taking maybe 45 minutes off and on. I did enjoy the MythBusters clip on polishing a turd.

If you mistakenly bought one of these turds as I did then please continue to give us ideas on how to overcome their shortcomings.

 

[Philbert]

Well, this grinder reminded me of a lesson I learned ( and obviously forgot) many years ago. Don’t buy cheap tools.

It's very appealing to spend $30, instead of $300, for an item that you only plan to use 'a 'little bit'. And if your expectations are tempered, that can be OK for some. One of my key sharpening mantras / axioms is:

'Lots of ways to sharpen a chain: everyone has to find something that works for them'.​

As noted near the start of this thread, it was intended to be a fun distraction for about the cost of a movie ticket and popcorn. The HF grinder is often on sale for $24. You can always resell them, used, on CL or at a garage sale for $10 -$15. A low risk investment.

As noted in the thread, I did learn that the 'older-style' HF grinders (without the 'bicycle brake clamp') worked better:
- because of the simpler design;
- because they came with better wheels (the part that does the actual grinding).
Similar ones are still available, under a variety brand names, on eBay, Amazon, and used at garage sales. Though they are still limited in power, adjustment, precision, etc., they can still be used to initially 'even-up' a randomly filed, or rocked chain, to be followed by a final sharpening with a file. In other words, for 'roughing in' the basic shape, or to 'hog off' the damaged portions, if they are not satisfied with the grinder produced edges. This could still save the user a lot of time, as well as several $ in files.

The Oregon 310-120 grinder, and the Forester version, are a big step up in quality, but are still limited, and I do not like the OEM wheels. But they can be an affordable, and compact option for many. I acquired 20* saw chain grinders (*counted and inventoried, not estimated*) over the past several years, doing these threads, and these are the only 'mini-grinders' I have kept, although, I replaced the grinding wheels with coarser ones.
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/
The 'standard', 5-3/4", Oregon / Tecomec grinders have more power, are more consistent, allow a greater range of custom angle choices, etc., and I prefer these over the 'clones'. But they can be expensive for a casual sawyer, and frankly I would prefer that they invest in good PPE first. My first one was 'a want' more than 'a need', and it became an interesting hobby. If you like nice tools, keep an eye out for a used one, or consider investing some discretionary income (a.k.a.'birthday money') towards one. It's certainly a good way to attract friends too!

Philbert

 

[jetsam]

I have a better grinder, and I still might buy one of those guys.

I am thinking that with a CBN wheel and an added angled depth stop on the swing arm, you could have a grinder that automatically finds 6° on the tooth and grinds the depth gauge to that height.... how awesome would that be! (You couldn't do this with regular wheels because their height varies and the height of your stop presumably wouldn't.)

I rarely grind these days, but figuring out what that stop looks like and fabricating it would be a fun project, so I may do it yet.

 

[Philbert]

I have a better grinder, and I still might buy one of those guys.

I am thinking that with a CBN wheel and an added angled depth stop on the swing arm, you could have a grinder that automatically finds 6° on the tooth and grinds the depth gauge to that height.... how awesome would that be! (You couldn't do this with regular wheels because their height varies and the height of your stop presumably wouldn't.)

I rarely grind these days, but figuring out what that stop looks like and fabricating it would be a fun project, so I may do it yet.

Not sure that a HF grinder would have the power to properly spin a CBN wheel.

Philbert

 

[landfakers]

Just got one of these cheap HF guys from my in-laws for christmas They heard me complain a few times about sharpening by hand and I guess they wanted to help. I don't expect miracles, but hoping it will be good to clean up chains after they get lent out to other family members and inevitably find rock and dirt! Went through the whole thread and hoping to find a quality 3/16 wheel that will work( 80% of my chains are full size 3/8) but will give it a go with the stock cheapo wheel and see how things go. Going to get it mounted up on a block later this week and try my hand on some old chains I have kicking around from saws of the past. Wish me luck!

 

[Philbert]

Let us know!

Philbert

 

[NSEric]

I bought the amazon version of the HF chain grinder. I picked up a 8 dollar 3/16 wheel for it at princess auto. The 3/16 wheel is only 100mm od and it had a 10mm center hole, I drilled it to 7/8 with a step bit easily so it fits. The smaller dia wheel doesnt seam to hurt anything, the cutters are really close to the same length from side to side.
I sharpened over a dozen chains on it now, it does ok if you're careful/gentle with it. My hands have been aching and cramping running a file lately so I'm liking the grinder better than hand filing for now.

 

[NSEric]

I modded my cheapie grinder for more hook, it wasnt as good as my hand file on .325 chains.
This is very easy to do all you need is a small bolt.
You unbolt the right hand side of the clamp, put the small bolt in it then set the clamp on the screw and tighten it, it'll pinch the clamp and hold it in place.
According to the angle finding app on my phone I added 7 degrees of tilt and now it grinds like 53 degrees of tilt while stock is 60.
You could notch the clamp and get anything between 60 and 53 degrees of tilt with this mod, I like the look of 53

 

[NSEric]

Here's a .325 chain sharpened on the modded grinder.

 

[Sidecarflip]

The inherent issue with the HF grinders is they are cheaply made and thermo plastic is prone to flex, I'd never consider buying one when there are much better alternatives that don't need modified out there. I'm cheap but not that cheap. The other more important issue is the bastard sized wheels.

I should add that one, I don't use vitrified wheels at all, only plasma coated CBN wheels that are coated on aluminum discs so zero imbalance and they never need dressed, just cleaned infrequently and will last many, many loops. In fact, I've run well in the excess of 150 20" loops to date and the wheels look like new.

and.. I have 2 chain grinders, one is the Tecomec / Oregon grinder and the other is an Amazonian special, aka: Vevor that is the exact copy of the Tecomec / Oregon grinder right down to the motor and chain vise and it was just under 100 bucks with free shipping. I will say the Vevor has a better depth stop than the Oregon has and I don't run the clunky shields on either as CBN wheels don't explode so they are not needed. The pivots on the Vevor are tight and there is no slop in them at all (I do keep both of them oiled anyway). Don't buy the bad reviews on the Vevor as whomever posted them is brain dead. I'm here to tell you none of them are even remotely accurate. I have a wide surface CBN wheel in the Vevor and all I do with it is set the rakers. It's canted over 60 degrees for that.

 

[Seachaser]

I’m actually surprised that HF hasn’t put out a better copy. They do that all the time. Maybe a Tecomec copy?

 

[Philbert]

I’m actually surprised that HF hasn’t put out a better copy. They do that all the time. Maybe a Tecomec copy?

HF likes cheap prices. They must be selling a lot of these.

But, if you go back to the early parts of this thread (10 years ago!), you will see that their previous version was better: fewer parts, simpler, better grinding wheel, etc.

I discussed that with them. Not interested in going back.

There are many versions of the 5-3/4”, Tecomec ‘clone’, grinders out there, ranging fim $75 to $175. I don’t know if HF ever offered one.

We first saw those as ‘Northern Tool’, ‘Black Friday’ specials around 2006 (?). Here’s one of the early threads (several followed):
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/fyi-northern-chainsaw-sharpener.39995/

Philbert

 

[Sidecarflip]

HF will never 'improve the grinder', why should they? It's dirt cheap and any improvement would increase the price. In HF's defense, they do offer quality tools and I have them but while they may be cheaper than brand name stuff, they aren't all that much cheaper unless it's tool cabs, the HF has the market cornered. I have their Series 2 cabs and they are as good as the Snap-On cab I also have at 1/4tth cost. I also have their Icon hand tools and torque wrenches, just as good (maybe better) than the competition and I have a full set of Bauer 20 volt cordless tools as well and never have had one failure with any of them.