Hotshot performance airfilters...

[JimL]

I have worked on quite a few saws with these on them and just bought another 066 with one on it today.

Every single one I have opened up has more dust inside carb and airfilter area than the stock ones do. I never see any dust inside my other saws with factory airfilters.


Anyone else have this problem or seen it?

 

[bwalker]

I wouldnt touch a holeshot filter if you are seeing dust inside the carb.

 

[don]

Would you agree the only mod to a saw would be

A velocity stack?
A filter is a filter is a filter.
Keep the dust out and that's a good thing.
What is the difference between one or the other?
Propaganda. Marketing.

 

[John in MA]

Filters that can pass more air will give a small (probably unnoticable) performance boost, but the downside is the same as it is with K&N filters for cars. They let a lot of dirt in. Good if you're racing your saw/car, but not for everyday use.

 

[Jacob J.]

Hi Folks-

The Holeshot?Max-Flow air filter system is higher maintenance than the stock Stihl air filter. The outside element must be kept oiled and should be thoroughly cleaned every 25-30 hours or so. However, the trade off is the higher performace. Also- the green pre-filter insert from the stock Stihl should be used inside the Holeshot cage to prevent the dust and residue build-up. If you ever "hop-up" or modify a saw for more power, these filters are the way to go. Otherwise the saw wants to suck too much air/fuel mix and probably won't get enough. I've seen modified 272s and 281s "cook off" the top of the piston because of the poor stock air filters. The 372 air filter system is excellent, as is the Stihl system if you remove the felt outer wrap and use a different filter cover. Thanks, Jason.

 

[bwalker]

Otherwise the saw wants to suck too much air/fuel mix and probably won't get enough. I've seen modified 272s and 281s "cook off" the top of the piston because of the poor stock air filters.

Ok, Ill bite on this. What the heck are you talking about Jacob? Pistons melt because of heat caused by too lean a mixture, detonation, pre ignition, etc. A over restrictive filter will cause the saw to run rich and thus cooler. The max flow filter may flow more air, but I have seen cases(snowmobiles) where more airflow has the effect increasing fuel consumption and nothing else. My feeling on the maxflow filter is that it trades of filtering efficancy for bulk flow. I am not really willing to trade off durability for the slight increase inpower it may or may not provide.

 

[Jacob J.]

Hi Bwalker-

<p>The saws in the past that I've seen "cook off" were the ones I mentioned- 272, 281, and Jonsered 920. By cooking off I'm referring to large amounts of carbon build-up on top of the piston, not the piston melting down.<p/>

<p>However- it's been my experience that when the stock filter gets blocked with sawdust and debris, it doesn't necessarily run cooler. True, it does run richer, but then cutters are keeping the saw wide open and exerting more force on the bar to get the saw to do the same amount of work that it normally would. I run logging crews here in Oregon and they're very hard on saws.<p/>

 

[bwalker]

By cooking off I'm referring to large amounts of carbon build-up on top of the piston, not the piston melting down.

No arguing their. Rich mixtures cause deposits.

However- it's been my experience that when the stock filter gets blocked with sawdust and debris, it doesn't necessarily run cooler. True, it does run richer, but then cutters are keeping the saw wide open and exerting more force on the bar to get the saw to do the same amount of work that it normally would. I run logging crews here in Oregon and they're very hard on saws.

If you are forcing the saw in the cut it will run hotter for sure. That more of a dull chain issue than a clogged filter one though.

 

[JimL]

Every night when I get home I bring whatever saws I used with me. Blow them off. Take the side cover off, blow that off. Clean the air filters. Blow the dust out of the carb area. Sharpen the chain. Top off the petrol and oil, and toss it back in the truck.

Filter maintanace isn't an issue with me here.

I got a stack of 10 new filters for my 066's. Couple spares for my 038's too.

 

[87boosted]

Originally posted by John in MA
Filters that can pass more air will give a small (probably unnoticable) performance boost, but the downside is the same as it is with K&N filters for cars. They let a lot of dirt in. Good if you're racing your saw/car, but not for everyday use.

i argue this, my k&N is ALWAYS properly oiled, my engine is CLEAN inside and OUT, theres is VERY little that will get through a properly oiled K&N and they are almost as good in stopping crap as a stock filter on a CAR, my filter is as long as my gfriends arm and have never had any type of damage from debris, a PTE 53 is a turbo...if ANY dirt or FOD,FOREIGN OBJECT DEBREE touches it goes BYE BYE, 700 dollars is a lot to pay for a turbo and its just the tip of the iceberg thats been DUMPED into it, sorry but i dissagree totally on the letting alot of dirt in part, i do not know ???? on chainsaws but when properly oiled they do their job...

 

[bwalker]

K&N's stink for turbo applications. Go check out the turbo diesel register and see how many people have had problems with them. You dont get something for nothing when it comes to filtration. More flow equals more dirt.

 

[JimL]

Originally posted by bwalker
K&N's stink for turbo applications. Go check out the turbo diesel register and see how many people have had problems with them. You dont get something for nothing when it comes to filtration. More flow equals more dirt.

Yep your right.
My dad does heating and airconditioning for a living. He gets people telling him all the time that those "hog hair" filters are the best. Hell I could read a book through one of those things if i knew how to read.

 

[87boosted]

My first posts and already i have stepped into a debate, Wonderful. I do not go to Diesel turbo websites, i go here...turbobuick.com and there are a few more but why bother, the point is you think K&N filters stink for turbo applications, correct?? I can speak only from my experience and those that i have been around, run the right size filter for your application and if it is allowing debris into your engine then that product should be taken off the market. Remember a car or truck pushing 500-600 pounds is going to want to suck quite a bit of air. Mine is somewhat overkill in my opinion but i KNOW for a fact NOTHING gets by it, if so there would be some form of BUILDUP on the TURBINE blades of the turbo. They are grey just like they should and there is no signs of any type of dirt. There are quite a few on that board up above running those filters and running eight nine 10 11 and 12 second QUARTER miles and have had 0 problems for 1000's of miles. If i was to stick a stock filter it would not only be a bottleneck but i truly would not feel any better using it. Now some small microns of dirt will get by a filter, whether stock or modified, sorry but there is nothing besides blocking the passing of air that will stop that but a K&N is PERFECTLY fine for a turbo, if they were dangerous i am sure there would be some type of damage by now on my car but of course it just keeps on running

 

[87boosted]

If i remember right K&N filters do not void new car warranttees....wonder why that is if they let dirt fly in....there is a big difference between a hog hair filter and a K&N filter...still do not agree with you, but once again to each his own

 

[bwalker]

First of all contaminants can get past the filter and leave no sings on the turbo itself. One has to get the analyzed to find out if you are getting contamination. People on the site I have mentioned have done this and K&N filters show higher silocon levels as well as wear metals. I also work in the auto filtration(fuel)industry and its pretty common knowledge that K&Ns stink.

 

[87boosted]

point was they stink for turbo applications...if they do nothing to the turbo then why do they stink for turbo applications, my old turbo that was on my car had 154,000 miles on it and the one on my ttype had 138,000 but the bearings were begining to leak on it, no damage whatsoever to the blades and 0 problems due to fod. Now I am running 23 psi on the street with no knock and can rip the tires apart at anything slower than 45 miles per hour, ...I talk about my car like some of these guys on here talk about chainsaws, im not rich but i love it. If i thought for one instance a K&N filter caused damage to my car it would not be on there, i have NEVER heard of someone blaming a failure of an engine or turbo due to a filter...bet you have one though

 

[87boosted]

in my opinion an engine whether boosted or otherwise will fail long before any K&N filter would have contributed to any type of damage within..

 

[87boosted]

Originally posted by bwalker
First of all contaminants can get past the filter and leave no sings on the turbo itself. One has to get the analyzed to find out if you are getting contamination. People on the site I have mentioned have done this and K&N filters show higher silocon levels as well as wear metals. I also work in the auto filtration(fuel)industry and its pretty common knowledge that K&Ns stink.

So what should i do, go down to advance auto and purchase a stock air filter which is going to choak my car so badly that the benefits of better filtration are far outweighed by the crappy performance they provide...sorry but ill keep my 31/2 ft long k&n filter and the second you show me how poor filtration they provide is when ill look for an alternative...

 

[bwalker]

the second you show me how poor filtration they provide is when ill look for an alternative...

Do a serch of the website I posted. Its not hard to find. As far as your car goes. There are other filters that can be used that will work better. Do a web search. If you insist on using a K&N I would use there foam prefilter as well

 

[xander9727]

Originally posted by 87boosted
My first posts and already i have stepped into a debate, Wonderful. There are quite a few on that board up above running those filters and running eight nine 10 11 and 12 second QUARTER miles and have had 0 problems for 1000's of miles.

8 second cars driving thousands of miles? Sorry but I have to call you on this one.
I know I'm heading down the technical highway again!
87 please explain to me how you can increase air flow (decrease resistance) in a filter without increasing surface area?
Before you bring up the filter as long as your girlfriends arm keep in mind the K&N claims more air flow from filters that are the same size as stock. I can purchase a K&N filter for my pick up that is the same dimensions as my stock filter. The only thing I can figure (without changing the laws of physics) is that the perforations (holes in the filter) are larger. I know that cotton gauze is more permeable than paper. I also know that in theory the oil in the filter helps to trap the particles. However, the more permeable the material the more likely it is to allow dirt to pass through the element. I would be willing to bet that if you conducted controlled test that you would find that the gauze type filters allow more particles to pass by than do paper elements. This would definately be true after extended use. The question here is how much is too much. I am rather certain that the K&N filters do allow more dirt to pass by but I am not convinced that they allow particles large enough to do significant damage.

P.S. (Means post scriptum or after the writing of) FOD (foreign object damage or foreign object debris) usually refers to larger particles. The minutia that passes through a filter typically won't damage turbine blades. Think about it for a second. Helicopters and jet aircraft operate in deserts and on or near beaches. If a few grains of sand would FOD out an engine we would have looked really bad in Desert Storm. I'm not stomping your sack I'm just trying to prevent a thrashing on your first few post.