How much slower is spikeless climbing?

[Koa Man]

I have never gaffed myself in 20+ years of climbing. I did have (notice, past tense) one idiot climber employee who gaffed himself a real good one in the upper thigh. The gaff bottomed out on his leg. This was after the job was done and he was walking back to the trunk carrying his gaffs by the foot step with the gaffs next to his thigh. He slipped and the gaff went straight into his leg. Good thing he had pole gaffs and not the tree gaffs on. Out for 2 weeks. I asked him "what were you thinking, carrying the gaffs like that?" Everybody I know carrys the gaffs by the shank.

 

[matty f]

[QUOTE=Do people climb spikeless because they care about the tree or because there have been so many horror stories about spike related injuries.

Spikes just feel to heavy and clumsy to be moving around a tree when you can swing round on a rope,how people could be wearing them to do trims.
Chainsaw trousers and boots are heavy enough for me.

Ill only put spikes on if im felling a pole from bottom up or ill stick them on at the top to slab down..........i think my worse tree nightmare ive had is slabbing down a big dead English oak trunk double cutting with a stihl 88 on spikes...wear them for a couple of hours and you walk out the tree a cripple,its just not natural to have that much pressure on that part your feet.

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

Well if you have a 'tree care' company you better be doing it for the 'care of the trees', doesn't that make sense? I feel like this work pays well enough to not have to chew up the sides of someones tree on a trim just to leave the jobsite six minutes earlier...it just ain't that tight.

I don't know much about line clearance but I would guess if utility crews are spiking trees under powerlines, they are doing so because dealing with throwlines and ropes will take longer than spiking in that particular environment full of brush and heavy growth. Priority is for the many, many trees to be kept out of the powerlines and they need to move along.

On a 200 year old college campus filled with well manicured lawns and gardens and long rows of tall, open trees the gaffer will do twice the work in twice as long with 100 times (or more) the damage...mind you this is talking about two equally skilled climbers and is only my opinion.

I guess my point is that I wouldn't expect a sports car to beat my big ol' 4x4 off road...nor would I expect my 4x4 to beat a sports car in the city. How silly to even compare.

I think we(I) just need to realize that some jobs need spikes and some jobs don't and we are all just treemen doing a job we love to make a living!

well said beowulf343.

 

[Climb020]

Wow, stitches once a week. Maybe you need to stop sharpening your gaffs so they don't pierce the skin so easily.

Never spiked myself once. But if you move around alot with spikes on you have to take too much time being careful as apposed to without spikes you can just run straight out on a limb and not worry about spiking yourself.

Yes tree care is exactly that. To take care of the tree and not ruin them.

 

[xtremetrees]

So I use red loop runners as foot steps oh about 3 times a week or day? huh, which is it a week or a day tree coboy?

Yes Ive spiked my heels I guess all of us have. Thats nothing compared to a removalof a lightening struck oak. Rope that on that. whoa!

You folks I can have fun with becuase I know yall havent used a loop runner as a step in months haha.:rockn:

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Yes Ive spiked my heels I guess all of us have. Thats nothing compared to a removalof a lightening struck oak. Rope that on that. whoa!

:jester:

If "removal" is involved, then of coures spikes are o.k. I can't believe how many people don't grasp the basics. PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tree Machine]

You folks I can have fun with becuase I know yall havent used a loop runner as a step in months haha.:rockn:

Well, not a loop runner, but a rated sling. I would have had to put two loop runners together to get the extension as shown in the pic.

Another good trick to have in the bag, but I use loop runners or slings it seems like once every couple years as a footloop. If you look for a faster way around a situation like that, you'll usually find it. In this pic I simply forgot to leave myself a stub to step on and it was either a foot sling, or send up the spikes (area was directly over a house). The tree was a takedown.

(please excuse that this pic has already shown up in another thread)

 

[Ryan Cafferky]

On an 85 foot tree I can put a throwball into the top and go up SRT and get up and prune the tree in less than an hour. While the climber with spurs is putting his flipline around and over every limp a climber going SRT can just zip up the rope past all of the limbs to the top. I don't even use spurs for my removals 99% of the time and I live in the northwest where we have some pretty large trees. :

I'll walk off a job if someone is pruning a tree with spikes on. That is one of the big reasons I left the last company that I previously worked for. I was the foreman and had a pretty cush job but the owner didn't care and was even encouraging spurring of trees that were being pruned. All he cared about was profit. All I cared about was the trees.

 

[clearance]

On an 85 foot tree I can put a throwball into the top and go up SRT and get up and prune the tree in less than an hour. While the climber with spurs is putting his flipline around and over every limp a climber going SRT can just zip up the rope past all of the limbs to the top. I don't even use spurs for my removals 99% of the time and I live in the northwest where we have some pretty large trees. :

I'll walk off a job if someone is pruning a tree with spikes on. That is one of the big reasons I left the last company that I previously worked for. I was the foreman and had a pretty cush job but the owner didn't care and was even encouraging spurring of trees that were being pruned. All he cared about was profit. All I cared about was the trees.

I can run up a 85' and prune it, spiral, sidelimb, whatever and be on the ground in less than an hour with spurs, do it all the time. How do you block down a big fir without spikes? Not being ignorant, I just can't picture how.

 

[beowulf343]

How do you block down a big fir without spikes? Not being ignorant, I just can't picture how.

Excellent question. How much do you want to bet that he will say that as soon as he starts chunking the stem, he puts his spikes on. I have been told this by alot of spikeless climbers. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

 

[diltree]

In most cases spike are faster and in some cases they are not. There is a time and place for everything, for Example: If you are Climbing for a Line Clearance Right of way crew in the woods, pruning tree after tree, It would be crazy not to use spikes. Yet If a homeowner hires you to Fine Prune their Pin Oak you should provide them with a service that is 100% beneficial for their tree, in that case spike would not be appropriate. Most of the arborists here have probably never been in a Right of way all day going up tree after tree with spikes for 8 hrs; it is an exhausting task. I will make one observation, these trees have been spiked for as long as the circuits have existed and they are still growing into the wires and are mostly extremely healthy. I don't really see the big deal of creating a few tiny spike wounds in the middle of the forests when the wounds your pruning cuts leave behind are 50 times the size. I do see the ethical problem in spiking customers trees when they are hiring you to take care of their trees, and perform a service that will be 100% beneficial to the health of the tree.

My two cents...Thanks


www.dillontree.com

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Excellent question. How much do you want to bet that he will say that as soon as he starts chunking the stem, he puts his spikes on. I have been told this by alot of spikeless climbers. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

That's a pretty radical trim job when you're standing on the spar taking off chunks.

 

[Tree Machine]

That's a description of a takedown.

Whoever said we've probably all spiked our heels.... Probably not all of us, though it is a valid concern. Ya gotta watch stabbing your rope, too, as well as any low-hanging slings.

 

[clearance]

In most cases spike are faster and in some cases they are not. There is a time and place for everything, for Example: If you are Climbing for a Line Clearance Right of way crew in the woods, pruning tree after tree, It would be crazy not to use spikes. Yet If a homeowner hires you to Fine Prune their Pin Oak you should provide them with a service that is 100% beneficial for their tree, in that case spike would not be appropriate. Most of the arborists here have probably never been in a Right of way all day going up tree after tree with spikes for 8 hrs; it is an exhausting task. I will make one observation, these trees have been spiked for as long as the circuits have existed and they are still growing into the wires and are mostly extremely healthy. I don't really see the big deal of creating a few tiny spike wounds in the middle of the forests when the wounds your pruning cuts leave behind are 50 times the size. I do see the ethical problem in spiking customers trees when they are hiring you to take care of their trees, and perform a service that will be 100% beneficial to the health of the tree.

My two cents...Thanks


www.dillontree.com

What a well reasoned post, I support this. This is the kind of rational thought we need here.

 

[treeseer]

I worked in a rural lot last week, A few oaks near the driveway were damaged by others being felled. They were tore up so bad and so hard to climb, I was going to use the client's 12' ladder, then spike the rest.

when I carried the spikes to the tree, my intern looked at me funny and said, "I thought you were trimming these." I thought about it a minute and said, "You're right, load em back up." Yes it took more time and effort, but it was worth it not to damage the trees any more. the owner didn't know any different, but I did, and so did my intern.

Why'd he have to learn to do things the right way? :bang:

Dil, clearance, I got no problem with what you said, and neither does ANSI or ISA.

 

[clearance]

Intern? what the hell is that? I thoght it meant some chick that hung around the office, like Monica Lewinski, surely you mean apprentice.

 

[beowulf343]

That's a pretty radical trim job when you're standing on the spar taking off chunks.

I was talking about Ryan and when he said he does 99% of his REMOVALS spikeless.

 

[clearance]

That's a pretty radical trim job when you're standing on the spar taking off chunks.

If its a strip and chunk removal how do you stand on the spar, stand on what, air, or are you leaving bag grabbing stubs all over, that you have to re- limb on the ground?

 

[Tree Machine]

If its a strip and chunk removal how do you stand on the spar, stand on what, air, or are you leaving bag grabbing stubs all over, that you have to re- limb on the ground?

I can answer that. If you can just give me a few minutes to process the video. It's from yesterday's job. I'm not sure why I schlepped the video camera along....OHhhh, it was the wound, monster wound on the one side, the entire crown weight on the other, over top of a garage, a shed, two directions of fence, trunk up through the wires, adjacent to a transformer. I brought the camera because I was suppose to have help that day but he didn't show, oh well, the show must go on.

I got a clip of the tree, bottom to top, telephoto of the wound site, climbed on the garage roof to get another view of the monstrous wound. After I got it crowned out and came down for a chipping session (the helper never showed up) I took another clip of the crowned out tree. Then I called the firewood guys to see what they had going on.

I did all the crowning out DbRT (static) spikeless, and round two, the making of the firewood I did SRT, spikeless. I got video clips of my ascender setup for both of those, including how I back up the ascenders. For some yet-to-be-determined reason, I was climbing on half inch (13 mm) bull rope that day (Stable Braid).

The question that Clearance brings up is "What do you do when you run out of branches to stand on?" See, that was the part where the firewood guys said, "Tree Machine, you want me to pull the ladder off the top of your truck?" I said "No, I'm already here. Grab the video camera, though." and we did a shot. No slings. Just flipline and lifeline, tied in twice.

Just give me an hour or so on putting that together. Then I'll ship it over to Austrailia where Ekka can put it into a .wmv format for windows users who don't have Quicktime or are on dialup.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[woodville]

:deadhorse: Look I think at this point most of us understand spikes and knots both have a time and purpose. Some still swear by gaffs others swear at them. Personally I view it as this, that favorite tree in my front yard great grand pappy Jedediah planted in 1901 do I want to hire a guy who's gonna gaff it up and down or the guy with a rope and saddle? Just a thought.