How would you handle this situation....

[Slvrmple72]

Everywhere you go to do work people will see what you do and how you treat their neighbors. You cannot win them all, nor would you want to! I don't mark the trees, I have typed up contracts, and storm work around here is always "early bird gets the worm!"

 

[BCMA]

I see it is one of the local scumbag tree guys with a new (new to him / old Asplundh truck) truck. This guy was in court on Friday with a property owner in which we had to come behind him and fix and finish his screw ups.

Anyway....we made our money today and I did not really care if we did the work so we go up and grab lunch. We swing back by the house and they are doing the work.

My first thought is....was this guy just sitting around waiting for a call to get some work? What did he say after I left with the job given to me?

Frustrating....I lost work to a full-time garbage guy and part-time tree guy.[/QUOTE]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My point is...this guy was called a "local scumbag tree guy," and the original poster was frustrated because he lost a job to a full time garbage worker who does tree work on the side.

I have seen many post complaining about the illegitimate, low-ball, cut-throat, fly-by-night tree guys who do crappy work, but yet our industry wants to do nothing about it. People are getting killed doing what we do because of their inexperience. Do we continue to let this happen? I think not! The reason that this industry does not want to be regulated is because most are not in compliance. No wonder that we are in the headlights of OSHA…and rightfully so.

I feel strongly about this position and will gladly put my name to it.

Tim Kastning
Grace Tree Service, Inc.
Hayden, Idaho

 

[John464]

I see it is one of the local scumbag tree guys with a new (new to him / old Asplundh truck) truck. This guy was in court on Friday with a property owner in which we had to come behind him and fix and finish his screw ups.

Anyway....we made our money today and I did not really care if we did the work so we go up and grab lunch. We swing back by the house and they are doing the work.

My first thought is....was this guy just sitting around waiting for a call to get some work? What did he say after I left with the job given to me?

Frustrating....I lost work to a full-time garbage guy and part-time tree guy.[/QUOTE]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My point is...this guy was called a "local scumbag tree guy," and the original poster was frustrated because he lost a job to a full time garbage worker who does tree work on the side.

I have seen many post complaining about the illegitimate, low-ball, cut-throat, fly-by-night tree guys who do crappy work, but yet our industry wants to do nothing about it. People are getting killed doing what we do because of their inexperience. Do we continue to let this happen? I think not! The reason that this industry does not want to be regulated is because most are not in compliance. No wonder that we are in the headlights of OSHA…and rightfully so.

I feel strongly about this position and will gladly put my name to it.

Tim Kastning
Grace Tree Service, Inc.
Hayden, Idaho

well instead of the ISA and my state(NJ Certified Tree Expert) just taking our money and rolling in it they should use funding to set up regs. Im all for burying the hacks, unlicensed, uninsured. It needs to become a consumer habit to scrutinize us tree guys like they do their electrician. I do hope for that one day. How did it happen in other trades?

 

[tree md]

I see it is one of the local scumbag tree guys with a new (new to him / old Asplundh truck) truck. This guy was in court on Friday with a property owner in which we had to come behind him and fix and finish his screw ups.

Anyway....we made our money today and I did not really care if we did the work so we go up and grab lunch. We swing back by the house and they are doing the work.

My first thought is....was this guy just sitting around waiting for a call to get some work? What did he say after I left with the job given to me?

Frustrating....I lost work to a full-time garbage guy and part-time tree guy.[/QUOTE]

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My point is...this guy was called a "local scumbag tree guy," and the original poster was frustrated because he lost a job to a full time garbage worker who does tree work on the side.

I have seen many post complaining about the illegitimate, low-ball, cut-throat, fly-by-night tree guys who do crappy work, but yet our industry wants to do nothing about it. People are getting killed doing what we do because of their inexperience. Do we continue to let this happen? I think not! The reason that this industry does not want to be regulated is because most are not in compliance. No wonder that we are in the headlights of OSHA…and rightfully so.

I feel strongly about this position and will gladly put my name to it.

Tim Kastning
Grace Tree Service, Inc.
Hayden, Idaho

So what? you try to run a reputable business, that's great, I do too. As long as you are insured with many years of happy customers with references to back it up why do you think you need a piece of paper to legitimize yourself to take a tree off of a house or have the government legitimize you when they can't legitimize their self? My work and reputation speaks for itself.

Larry Addis
American Tree Works
18 years experience with verifiable references
Customer reviewed right here:
http://tulsa.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=73&bbb=1025&firm=38007107

Yes, more government over site will solve everything and make it better. They have done wonders with everything they've had their hand in so far...

 

[tree md]

well instead of the ISA and my state(NJ Certified Tree Expert) just taking our money and rolling in it they should use funding to set up regs. Im all for burying the hacks, unlicensed, uninsured. It needs to become a consumer habit to scrutinize us tree guys like they do their electrician. I do hope for that one day. How did it happen in other trades?

I mostly agree with that John but your never going to stop Joe chainsaw from going out and soliciting work and your never going to stop Pete cheapskate from seeking his services. I always thought I would like to be a fly on the wall when joe chainsaw drops a tree on pete cheapskate's house, packs up his gear and leaves. To me these two arch types deserve each other. It's a match made in heaven. What I wouldn't mind seeing is more ordinances where people are required to get a permit to remove a champion class tree in historical districts and municipals or even high value, in town neighborhoods. I'd like to see a certified arborist have to sign off on the removal when it would effect the landscape and property values for the whole neighborhood/community. I think the decision of who will do the work should be left up to the homeowner though. People have a right to work in this country. And whether or not you like their tattoos, work ethic or history doesn't matter, it is the homeowner's choice of who they decide to have on their property to work.

 

[newb]

Here's a twist. I've been running my biz for seven years now. Started part-time and last year retired from my job and went full time tree service. A new guy in my area, who went bankrupt with a bar, has started a Tree service. He has a bucket truck. Can't climb and doesn't know how to rig. I have been hearing from clients that he is bad mouthing me telling them I'm a low baller trying to run everyone else out of work. One job, a large Silver Maple, we both bid on, he told customer that the tree couldn't be climbed and he would need two days to take it down. Each cut he would bring down by lowering the bucket. We were done in 3 1/2 hours(climbed) all cleaned up. Our bid was even higher than his. Him and I are going to talk. Pete

 

[outofmytree]

I am all for industry regulation in line with the way electricians, plumbers, builders and even painters are here in Australia. Truth be told I don't know how this kind of regulation started but I can tell you that everyone has benefited from it. When you hire any of these trades you know they must have the necessary basic skills to do the job.

Lets face it tree work is dangerous both to the operator and to bystanders. If by some means it is possible to reduce the danger to all concerned I am all for it. There are various low cost means by which this could be done and if you do the math, a modest licence fee would be more than paid for by the extra work available because the guys in a ute with a chainsaw are now out of the picture.

I am the business owner so the cost of this would be mine to pay. I would gladly pay it.

As for policing this sort of thing. You could set it up in multiple arenas. For example, PL insurers can be required to see the appropriate qualification before issuing a CoC.

I liked TreeMD's idea too.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is more ordinances where people are required to get a permit to remove a champion class tree in historical districts and municipals or even high value, in town neighborhoods. I'd like to see a certified arborist have to sign off on the removal

A local council here in Perth now requires you obtain a permit to remove trees native to the area. Why not add the codicil that this permit can only be granted to arborists with appropriate qualifications.

When the power company here inspects their lines if a private tree infringes the HO must pay for pruning. The minimum requirement is a power line clearance certificate but no arboricultural certificates or skills are demanded. The power company reinspects to ensure the work is completed so how about they collect a copy of the receipt with the tree companies certification included from the meter box. All that would require would be a triplicate receipt book.

I think the toughest part is early policing but in the long run, good practise becomes a habit. Today you would no more hire a plumber without a registration than you would take your kids to a doctor without a license.

Food for thought?

 

[maloufstree]

Don't stress over it. Thats typical here in Texas if you have a back log of any period of time. Everyone wanted it done yesterday when they call you. Very hard to find people who are loyal even if you bust your balls to treat them right. Don't count your money till its in the bank.

 

[chip's-tree]

I agree something needs to be done in some of these cases. there will always be bad guys without ethics no matter what business you look at. this is still a free country and the HO still owns the tree. people in general are always ready to pass laws that has an affect on someone else... thank God we don't live in another country....

 

[smokinj]

We worked about 4 hours this moring doing a removal and pruning broken limbs. We get back to the shop around 11am and I check my messages. A guy down the road about 5 miles left me a message about a tree on his house and garage from a storm Thursday night. I call him but get no answer. I ask one of the guys if they will go with me in case we can cut it off without the bucket truck. The message lead me to believe he wanted me to just come and do it.

We go down and look the situation over and tell the guy we will come back later to do the work. Probably would take about an hour or hour and a half. It was a fairly small Silver Maple with three leads and one broke off and landed on his garage.

The homeowner acts like he is fine with what we told him and he was in no hurry and we could do it as soon as it works out for us.

We jump in the truck and start to pull out of the driveway. Well here comes a bucket truck down the road and is wanting to come into the driveway where we are pulling out of. I see it is one of the local scumbag tree guys with a new (new to him / old Asplundh truck) truck. This guy was in court on Friday with a property owner in which we had to come behind him and fix and finish his screw ups.

Anyway....we made our money today and I did not really care if we did the work so we go up and grab lunch. We swing back by the house and they are doing the work.

My first thought is....was this guy just sitting around waiting for a call to get some work? What did he say after I left with the job given to me?

Frustrating....I lost work to a full-time garbage guy and part-time tree guy.

I would have set there until the bucket truck left the area or just start on the tree make about 10 cuts and then came back the next day! It seems once you get started the others will leave the job alone thats just me

 

[MonkeyMan_812]

Regulation would just make it better for everyone who is in this to make a living and who is a real company. It would limit competition to those who are serious about tree work. Its too easy for these idiots to go around working for cash all the time to underbid a legitimate company and break the law and get away with it. I totaly believe in more regs. Seperates the men from the boys.

 

[chip's-tree]

Regulation would just make it better for everyone who is in this to make a living and who is a real company. It would limit competition to those who are serious about tree work. Its too easy for these idiots to go around working for cash all the time to underbid a legitimate company and break the law and get away with it. I totaly believe in more regs. Seperates the men from the boys.

ok how would you reg. this.
we have a guy here that is a law enforcement officer that has min. Insurance
(100,000) has anywhere from 1 to 5 workers--depending on the job he's doing. (claims he does not have any employees because he does not pay taxes on them) will under bid me and another tree service in minute no matter what we bid. (cash on most jobs) makes a dang big mess and has knocked down serivce lines,fences,stuck bucket truck in yards, killed grass with hydraulic oil and also sprayed roofs with hydraulic. and keeps working in a county of about 40,000 people. he has no ethics---just wants the money..

 

[BCMA]

ok how would you reg. this.
we have a guy here that is a law enforcement officer that has min. Insurance
(100,000) has anywhere from 1 to 5 workers--depending on the job he's doing. (claims he does not have any employees because he does not pay taxes on them) will under bid me and another tree service in minute no matter what we bid. (cash on most jobs) makes a dang big mess and has knocked down serivce lines,fences,stuck bucket truck in yards, killed grass with hydraulic oil and also sprayed roofs with hydraulic. and keeps working in a county of about 40,000 people. he has no ethics---just wants the money..

Turn him into the IRS, workman's comp. (state industrial), and state tax authorities, state occupation licensing authorities, and any other bureaucrat you can think of. When they get done with their auditing, he probably won’t be in business.

If he is a local police officer, I would consider talking to his supervisor about him breaking the law by hiring employees and paying them under the table.

It is high time we start to police ourselves, and require ourselves and others to be legit.

 

[outofmytree]

I recall seeing somewhere that ISA is either considering or implementing a "turn in a hack" scheme for self regulation. Making it a requirement of membership that you report substandard work after which I assume the offending ISA member is given a "please explain". If this is in fact going to occur I think it is a step in the right direction.

Of course the issue then becomes what power does ISA actually have over its members. Perhaps they could arrange a visit by the appropriate OHS regulatory body.

He he. Thinking about some of the operations I see regularly over here it would clean out a large portion of the businesses in short order.

 

[fishercat]

i have a better idea.

Turn him into the IRS, workman's comp. (state industrial), and state tax authorities, state occupation licensing authorities, and any other bureaucrat you can think of. When they get done with their auditing, he probably won’t be in business.

If he is a local police officer, I would consider talking to his supervisor about him breaking the law by hiring employees and paying them under the table.

It is high time we start to police ourselves, and require ourselves and others to be legit.

call the local news channels.they would eat that story up.

 

[chip's-tree]

you don't in a small town

but I still have to live with this small town and most of them know me...so that is like turning in your neighbor for making whiskey.....but I will work on it

 

[fishercat]

sounds like you "boys" can't handle competition.

Regulation would just make it better for everyone who is in this to make a living and who is a real company. It would limit competition to those who are serious about tree work. Its too easy for these idiots to go around working for cash all the time to underbid a legitimate company and break the law and get away with it. I totaly believe in more regs. Seperates the men from the boys.

take your communist crap and move to France.