4/ looks like a cancerous tumor/canker very nasty. cankers vary in appearance from tree to tree, im not familiar with eucs, what is it?Often ironbark eucs here will get an anomaly.
In this picture you can see how the bark responds.
The section cut off and ready to be opened up.
And wella, a look inside.
Now normally you would have to pass diagnosis without dissection. However in this instance you have seen it all.
What would you call it? ....
1/ Gall
2/ Burl
3/ Conk
4/ Canker
Huge cankers and trunk strength ?
- Thread starter M.D. Vaden
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Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes it's a canker but it's very different to the usual canker.
The description of a canker from this link.
http://www.forestpathology.org/canker.html
I have balded and italicised where the discrepancy lays.
Unlike most other cankers there's no sunken or decaying area and the swelling is right where the canker is ... the internal wood isn't damaged and just as strong, in fact I believe that section is actually stronger due to the increased girth than either side of it.
The cambium has small veins of kino in response to the infection but the bark is really swollen with lots of kino valleys and pockets.
I have observed some ironbarks absolutely infested like this, no failures and no problems for almost 10 years. There's little I can find about it too, it's peculiar to ironbarks only in my observations. I have saved quite a few trees from the chainsaw because of dissecting these things and knowing a bit about it, it could be a bacterial or fungal infection ... I don't know.
But what I do know is when a tree lopper says the tree has to come out because of it I know that's BS.
The description of a canker from this link.
http://www.forestpathology.org/canker.html
I have balded and italicised where the discrepancy lays.
Unlike most other cankers there's no sunken or decaying area and the swelling is right where the canker is ... the internal wood isn't damaged and just as strong, in fact I believe that section is actually stronger due to the increased girth than either side of it.
The cambium has small veins of kino in response to the infection but the bark is really swollen with lots of kino valleys and pockets.
I have observed some ironbarks absolutely infested like this, no failures and no problems for almost 10 years. There's little I can find about it too, it's peculiar to ironbarks only in my observations. I have saved quite a few trees from the chainsaw because of dissecting these things and knowing a bit about it, it could be a bacterial or fungal infection ... I don't know.
But what I do know is when a tree lopper says the tree has to come out because of it I know that's BS.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Is there a quick way to seperate destructive growths from non-destructive?
That is, if a gall is often hollow and a burl solid then do they sound different when u tap them?
These pictures bring to mind the distortion we often see in Perth on yellow box trees when they are hacked and rehacked because some bright spark in the council decided to plant a 15 metre tree under a 5 metre power line.
That is, if a gall is often hollow and a burl solid then do they sound different when u tap them?
These pictures bring to mind the distortion we often see in Perth on yellow box trees when they are hacked and rehacked because some bright spark in the council decided to plant a 15 metre tree under a 5 metre power line.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
So does this apply to burls as well? We see many odd looking growths but as I didn't understand the difference untill now I have never investigated them.
If a lateral branch is cankered is there any issue with increased weight?
It can depending on the size of it. But i haven't heard anything about safely removing them.If you try you may or may not cause a it cause rot and attacks by insects. we have always just cut them out to the closets lateral depending on how it will effect the shape of the tree. hope this helps.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ah, sorry mate. I could have phrased that a little better. When I said separate I didn't mean to cut them off. What I meant was, how do you easily tell burls from galls and would they sound different if you tapped them as you do when checking for rot or termite activity.
As for the question about laterals and cankers, it was more a curiosity than a common occurrence. I don't recall ever seeing that sort of thing but then we have very few ironbarks in my part of Australia.
Nice dissection of the eucalypt; interesting anomaly. You do good work, Eric, and ask good questions--when they are not affected by hasty judgments, and the urge to cast stones from outside your glass house.
They are cankers by definition; necrotic (dead) areas. Even though the death does not yet go into the wood it appears to be killing bark tissue. Identifying the pathogen(s) would help a great deal; have you tried that?
Yes tapping the area and listening for hollow sounds can indicate decay inside. Sometimes but seldom they are bad defects, in my experience.
The ISA definitions are quite accurate. Unlike Wikipedia and other dodgy internet sandboxes, ISA's gets heavy review from professionals, without personal agendas
and hasty judgments and half-baked opinions going on line.
ISA makes it free to the tree world, unfiltered and un-spun, http://www.isa-arbor.com/Dictionary/
ISA also makes 30 years of research free to the tree world, http://auf.isa-arbor.com/search.asp
If you want to become a part of the primary vehicle for advancing the science and art of tree care, see here. http://www.isa-arbor.com/members/becomemember.aspx
If not, "Take this (info), brother (and sister), may it serve you well". The Beatles said that 40 years ago--#9, #9. #9...-- about other mind-expanding stuff, but it's really true here.
If you want to :computer: chat on the internet, great--much can be learned here. But beware--some sandboxes are used as litterboxes too, so ya gotta bring yer pooperscooper!
They are cankers by definition; necrotic (dead) areas. Even though the death does not yet go into the wood it appears to be killing bark tissue. Identifying the pathogen(s) would help a great deal; have you tried that?
Yes tapping the area and listening for hollow sounds can indicate decay inside. Sometimes but seldom they are bad defects, in my experience.
The ISA definitions are quite accurate. Unlike Wikipedia and other dodgy internet sandboxes, ISA's gets heavy review from professionals, without personal agendas
and hasty judgments and half-baked opinions going on line.ISA makes it free to the tree world, unfiltered and un-spun, http://www.isa-arbor.com/Dictionary/
ISA also makes 30 years of research free to the tree world, http://auf.isa-arbor.com/search.asp
If you want to become a part of the primary vehicle for advancing the science and art of tree care, see here. http://www.isa-arbor.com/members/becomemember.aspx
If not, "Take this (info), brother (and sister), may it serve you well". The Beatles said that 40 years ago--#9, #9. #9...-- about other mind-expanding stuff, but it's really true here.
If you want to :computer: chat on the internet, great--much can be learned here. But beware--some sandboxes are used as litterboxes too, so ya gotta bring yer pooperscooper!
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Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
My comments are in red.
Oh, nice plug for ISA, sadly your diet is lacking and your devaluing of others and places same.
These days most of the research comes from places other than the ISA, scientists and universities in fact. Then they distribute it in a variety of ways.
There are lots of countries where ISA simply is nowhere to be found, yet the work in Arboriculture continues, and according to your logic is worthless.
Your cheap shots and rhetoric are wearing out. :chatter:
Nice dissection of the eucalypt; interesting anomaly. You do good work, Eric, and ask good questions--when they are not affected by hasty judgments, and the urge to cast stones from outside your glass house.
You just cannot help yourself can you? Just have to throw in things like "hasty judgements, cast stones and glass houses" to push your hidden little agenda!
They are cankers by definition; necrotic (dead) areas. Even though the death does not yet go into the wood it appears to be killing bark tissue. Identifying the pathogen(s) would help a great deal; have you tried that?
Yes tapping the area and listening for hollow sounds can indicate decay inside. Sometimes but seldom they are bad defects, in my experience.
The ISA definitions are quite accurate. Unlike Wikipedia and other dodgy internet sandboxes, ISA's gets heavy review from professionals, without personal agendas
LOL, they're not like you then? I dont believe that.
ISA makes it free to the tree world, unfiltered and un-spun, http://www.isa-arbor.com/Dictionary/
ISA also makes 30 years of research free to the tree world, http://auf.isa-arbor.com/search.asp
If you want to become a part of the primary vehicle for advancing the science and art of tree care, see here. http://www.isa-arbor.com/members/becomemember.aspx
If not, "Take this (info), brother (and sister), may it serve you well". The Beatles said that 40 years ago--#9, #9. #9...-- about other mind-expanding stuff, but it's really true here.
If you want to :computer: chat on the internet, great--much can be learned here. But beware--some sandboxes are used as litterboxes too, so ya gotta bring yer pooperscooper!
Oh, nice plug for ISA, sadly your diet is lacking and your devaluing of others and places same.
These days most of the research comes from places other than the ISA, scientists and universities in fact. Then they distribute it in a variety of ways.
There are lots of countries where ISA simply is nowhere to be found, yet the work in Arboriculture continues, and according to your logic is worthless.
Your cheap shots and rhetoric are wearing out. :chatter:
jomoco
Tree Freak
There's an awful lot of truth in what Ekka said above.
The ISA while an admirable and great institution, is hardly the cutting edge of arboricultural knowledge, they lag behind, sometimes for years.
They can be as obtuse and selfserving as any other organisation at times.
That said, I trust they will improve along with our industry in general once this crisis is over.
And heartfelt condolences on the unfortunate deaths in Australia in these wicked fires Ekka, from your friends in the USA.
Been there done that here in CA in 03 cedar fire, very scary indeed!
jomoco
The ISA while an admirable and great institution, is hardly the cutting edge of arboricultural knowledge, they lag behind, sometimes for years.
They can be as obtuse and selfserving as any other organisation at times.
That said, I trust they will improve along with our industry in general once this crisis is over.
And heartfelt condolences on the unfortunate deaths in Australia in these wicked fires Ekka, from your friends in the USA.
Been there done that here in CA in 03 cedar fire, very scary indeed!
jomoco
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Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Oh, just for the record a recent bomb has been dropped elsewhere that isn't so one eyed regarding the accuracy of pull testing figures published. 
:agree2: except i cant relate to fighting forest fires. ekka has my respect, he has many great points. ekka stands on top of the castle he built and its a damn fine place ta visit
mateEkka
Addicted to ArboristSite
108 dead so far.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
Country Victoria is a beautiful place to visit and as scary as hell in bushfire season. The toll is past 130 and predicted to exceed 200. I will gladly provide my own ammo if they ask for volunteers for an arsonists firing squad.
outofmytree
Addicted to ArboristSite
These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other Guy. It is probably just my ignorance but isnt killing bark tissue bad? Would you say this kind of canker is worth pruning out of a branch?
On the subject of burls and galls it seems like every tree I looked at today had some sort of growth! So externally, on the same tree species, are these two types of growth similar? Are there any obvious identifying signs?
More information please!
opcorn:
M.D. Vaden
vadenphotography.com
These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other Guy. It is probably just my ignorance but isnt killing bark tissue bad? Would you say this kind of canker is worth pruning out of a branch?
On the subject of burls and galls it seems like every tree I looked at today had some sort of growth! So externally, on the same tree species, are these two types of growth similar? Are there any obvious identifying signs?
More information please!
He probably can clarify.
I'd guess he means that they are seldom bad in regards to how advanced or developed they become.
But at least he explains - almost always.
Uh yeah well I try anyway.
Worth removing? Burls, never. Other types of galls, yes, only If it seems it will advance and cause a lot of strength loss, yes.
Cankers, yes, If it seems infection will advance and cause a lot of strength loss. But smaller cankers can be excised, aka bark tracing--read Shigo et al on that.
