Huztl / Farmertec ms 440

[David.M]

Why so harsh Bedford T? You have posted videos on youtube (helpful videos i'll add) where you sometimes make mistakes and figure things out as you go. You have also stated that that is part of the fun in these kits. Now as I'm figuring out some things as I build my kits, you accuse me of being hardheaded, unwilling to follow best practices, frustrating, and not looking at the manual?? The reason I'm posting about my questions and findings is that you requested that I do so a few weeks ago to "pay it forward" when I first chimed in and thanked everyone else on here who has already posted a wealth of helpful info.

You said I have the wrong cylinder bolts because I used the supplied silver M5x20 bolts and you said I should have M5x25 black bolts? Where are you getting this from? The manual I have says:



Further, you indicated I did the vacuum test wrong because I did not rotate the flywheel while measuring it. After thinking about it, it makes sense to me why that might be a helpful test, however this is what the manual says:




The manual says to do it as a static test. Makes no mention of rotating the flywheel/crank while testing.

I apologize Bedford T for confusing and frustrating you. I appreciate your input and help on these kit saws. I will try to make my future posts shorter and less confusing.

In the end, my 660 kit is running great. The 440 kit has a couple bugs to work out but I am happy with it as well. It has been a fun learning process building these saws and I hope to build more in the future. I have made a couple mistakes along the way, and chances are I will make more mistakes in the future. But I learn from each mistake and work to improve. Thankfully others have shared many of their mistakes and successes and I have learned quite a few lessons through what they have shared. I appreciate all the helpful information that people have posted on this site and others. It made it much easier to figure out these kits, especially the first one.

 

[grizz55chev]

Bedford T seems a little buthurt for someone that had no idea what he was doing just a few months ago. I remember introducing him to the pressure vac test a little over a year ago, he had no idea, now he’s an expert, go figure.

 

[Imprzed205]

Damn, Beford flipped his Shnit.
I don't know a lot about diagnosing a whole lot. But Have you pressure tested the inlet needle on your carb to see if it's leaking?
I don't have the instructions to do it but you can test it with your pressure pump.

 

[David.M]

No, I haven't tested the carb. I ordered a second $13 ebay carb. I'll throw that in and see if that fixes it. If not, I will do further testing/diagnosing.

 

[morbius18]

No, I haven't tested the carb. I ordered a second $13 ebay carb. I'll throw that in and see if that fixes it. If not, I will do further testing/diagnosing.

I replaced my carb with a Walbro used hd16. I figured 35 was a good deal for used. Actually, I've replaced flywheel, clutch, clutch drum, av mounts, switch, chain tensioner and about to do a used 440 oem cylinder with meteor piston/caber rings. In retrospect, I should have bought a used Stihl 440

 

[David.M]

Is that because all those parts failed on you? Or you just felt better having them replaced?

I put an OEM gas tank vent on mine last night and then did a vac and pressure test on the tank. It vents and holds less than 1"HG vacuum. However it held 15psi pressure for 10+ minutes without dropping even 1 psi. My 660 kit saw gas tank builds up and holds less than 1psi pressure.

 

[morbius18]

I had a vibration in mine, so the rotating parts were tested as well as the av. It reduced it some. But not altogether. I picked up a few parts 460 and 461s so I swapped some over.

The chain brake stuff I did replacing the band. Mine didn't have the pin in the end.

I milled and ported my cylinder and wanted more adjustment, so I switched the carb. The switch didn't want to choke the walbro, so that was changed. In the process I changed the carb plate and throttle rod with oem.

I picked up a crankcase with crank. Probably will be using that and only using the handle, covers and muffler. I'm pretty sure the crank is the source of the vibrations. If I'm splitting the case again, I'm not reusing thr hutzl one when I have an oem one.

 

[David.M]

Ok. I only ran about 1/2 tank of fuel through mine so far, with all stock farmertec parts. I haven't noticed any abnormal vibrations on mine yet.

After a little more reading, the fuel tank vent is a one way vent to let air in but not out. So what I measured on the OEM Stihl vent with the pressure/vac test is what I should have expected.

The farmertec tank vent did not let air in or out. Likely it was creating a vacuum when the saw was running, resulting in less fuel through the carb, resulting in the lean condition that I was experiencing.

I'm going to test the inlet needle on the original farmertec carb to see what pressure it opens at. I read elsewhere that it should open at about 10psi. I'm thinking this is the most probable cause to the saw leaking fuel on my basement floor when sitting for 2 weeks. $13 ebay carb should arrive any day also. I will also pressure test the needle on that one before I put it in.

 

[morbius18]

Ok. I only ran about 1/2 tank of fuel through mine so far, with all stock farmertec parts. I haven't noticed any abnormal vibrations on mine yet.

After a little more reading, the fuel tank vent is a one way vent to let air in but not out. So what I measured on the OEM Stihl vent with the pressure/vac test is what I should have expected.

The farmertec tank vent did not let air in or out. Likely it was creating a vacuum when the saw was running, resulting in less fuel through the carb, resulting in the lean condition that I was experiencing.

I'm going to test the inlet needle on the original farmertec carb to see what pressure it opens at. I read elsewhere that it should open at about 10psi. I'm thinking this is the most probable cause to the saw leaking fuel on my basement floor when sitting for 2 weeks. $13 ebay carb should arrive any day also. I will also pressure test the needle on that one before I put it in.

I've used it and cut with it, but at idle it vibrates pretty bad. At this point, after I get the donor crankcase/crank installed, the only farmertec thing left on mine will be the tank, covers and muffler.

It's left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. I really got what I paid for with this one....

 

[David.M]

I got my 440 running again last night.

OEM fuel tank vent installed. Added a gasket between the cylinder and muffler heat shield plate. Installed $13 ebay carb.

Started on 3 pull. I ran it for about 5 or 10 minutes. I made a couple cuts with it as well. Idles pretty well now and seems to run good.

Vibration: While running it, I thought about vibration and I really didn't notice any abnormal vibrations. However after I put it away and took my gloves off my fingers were slightly tingly. So maybe there is some extra vibration there. Will see as I use it more.

 

[David.M]

Did a few more test cuts with the 440 and made a short video clip of it. When I was fumbling with my phone to stop the recording, it "auto rotated" and then saved the entire video sideways. Ugh. Video still shows the saw running though.

 

[morbius18]

I ended up getting a crankcase with crank to replace the farmertec one. Turned out the case had a bad pto bearing seat. Was sold as functional.

I used the farmertec crankcase with stihl oem bearings, crank and cylinder with meteor piston and caber rings. I used the metal gasket and sealed up up. Crankcase had an air leak next to the impulse fitting.

I took it back apart and used some dirko on the crankcase seal. Back together and the metal seal leaked. Took it apart and dirkoed the seal. It passed vacuum and pressure. Squish was really high like .040 or so. After assembly I compression tested it, got 120 psi. Tested another saw, 150.

I debated parting the stupid thing out or running it over with my tractor. I've been throwing good money after bad with this one.

I'm guessing the case isn't machined to the same height as an OEM one, which results in shoddy squish.

I disassembled it again, pulled the jug and cleaned the mating surfaces for the 100th time. I found that .005 gasket paper got the squish to around .020. I made a gasket and dirkoed it again.

It passed pressure and vacuum, so I reassembled everything. It fired up and ran... really well. Ended up with almost 150psi also.

So OEM Stihl stuff on this is:

Crank bearings, crankshaft, cylinder, Meteor piston/caber rings, decomp valve, oil pump, flywheel, clutch, clutch drum, chain tensioner/brake pieces, intake boot/clamp, carburetor washers, 460 carburetor, throttle rod and control lever.

It finally has no crazy vibrations.

Vibration was either the crank or bearings. Most likely the crank.



I have it listed on Craigslist, disclosing exactly what it is.

 

[Bedford T]

I ended up getting a crankcase with crank to replace the farmertec one. Turned out the case had a bad pto bearing seat. Was sold as functional.

I used the farmertec crankcase with stihl oem bearings, crank and cylinder with meteor piston and caber rings. I used the metal gasket and sealed up up. Crankcase had an air leak next to the impulse fitting.

I took it back apart and used some dirko on the crankcase seal. Back together and the metal seal leaked. Took it apart and dirkoed the seal. It passed vacuum and pressure. Squish was really high like .040 or so. After assembly I compression tested it, got 120 psi. Tested another saw, 150.

I debated parting the stupid thing out or running it over with my tractor. I've been throwing good money after bad with this one.

I'm guessing the case isn't machined to the same height as an OEM one, which results in shoddy squish.

I disassembled it again, pulled the jug and cleaned the mating surfaces for the 100th time. I found that .005 gasket paper got the squish to around .020. I made a gasket and dirkoed it again.

It passed pressure and vacuum, so I reassembled everything. It fired up and ran... really well. Ended up with almost 150psi also.

So OEM Stihl stuff on this is:

Crank bearings, crankshaft, cylinder, Meteor piston/caber rings, decomp valve, oil pump, flywheel, clutch, clutch drum, chain tensioner/brake pieces, intake boot/clamp, carburetor washers, 460 carburetor, throttle rod and control lever.

It finally has no crazy vibrations.

Vibration was either the crank or bearings. Most likely the crank.

View attachment 647903 View attachment 647904 View attachment 647905 View attachment 647906 View attachment 647907 View attachment 647908 View attachment 647909

I have it listed on Craigslist, disclosing exactly what it is.

Almost oem

kit info & packing lists @ http://thechainsawkitguy.com

 

[David.M]

put some time on my 440 this weekend. No problems.

 

[CsClimbr]

Subbed

 

[Bedford T]

I reached out to mitty's again on the walbro hd-15. she was suppose to bring them in after i got mine. its one of the few things this kit absolutely needs to run right. for what ever reason she said they would be in at the end of the month. i got a feeling she could not get them to do a run for the price i got, so expect it to be some higher, i don't know that. but there has to be a reason for the delay. regardless, i think the stihl is between 75-125 depending on your circumstance. a refresher no limiters and shipping is included or was.

 

[morbius18]

I ended up parting with my hybrid 440. It had Stihl bearings, crank, cylinder, intake, carb, flywheel, coil, oil pump, clutch, clutch drum, decomp and more smalls. I had gotten a donor 460 and switched parts over.

Something that I ran into was the squish was really high without a base gasket. It had OEM crank, meteor piston, OEM cylinder. I think that the cylinder base on the crankcase wasn't machined to the right depth. Something to look out for if anyone else tries to install an oem cylinder.

 

[Bedford T]

I just ordered a meteor kit. I found a source for a crank with chromed bearings. i am might use the hd-15 i bought and see how it runs. It already cuts great but it bounces when it sits, if it smooths out I came out ahead on both fronts and if not i will look at that crank. I have a spare case so rather than separate the current one i will just seal it up with the upgraded crank in the spare case. the oem carb thats on it might be jetted more for the 460. but with changing the cylinder that might alter that dynamic and i can continue to use the oem. i am covered either way. the meteor tolerances might really make the saw shine. can't wait to see how that works out. they are very expensive compared to other AM. made a difference on my 660.

 

[brandonstc6]

I saw this kit of eBay, I’ve never seen any with the blue covers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bedford T]

I saw this kit of eBay, I’ve never seen any with the blue covers.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They must be getting heat. I would bet it's orange.

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