hydro vs. kinetic cost/speed comparison

[muddstopper]

I was watching a video of an outfit in Austraila. They ran 2 of the biggest Multiteks, something like 75-100 cords a day!

I probably couldnt even buy that much wood per day around here, and dang sure I dont want to process that much

 

[NSMaple1]

How do you figure little payback?

To cover a 100k in processor and skid steer I'd have to sell 800 cords... about 2 years worth of wood. Not bad if you ask me. A processor can last 20+ years.

If I remember correctly you are in an area that doesn't get very cold, so perhaps firewood isn't a need? I sell about 500 cords a year and could do closer to 800. Hoping with adding 2 trucks that I'll be there (lot of it now is people going elsewhere because of the wait time)

800 cords on 100k is $125/cord to put towards payback. That doesn't leave much for your other costs & expenses - with enough left over for your pocket?

 

[turnkey4099]

800 cords on 100k is $125/cord to put towards payback. That doesn't leave much for your other costs & expenses - with enough left over for your pocket?

I cut just for the excercise. I do burn about 6-7 cord/yr but hae somewhere around 90 cord in the wood storage now. Cut a lot more than I can use so I sell up to 10-12 cord/yr. Figuring all my costs I figure I lose around $60 per cord. I chalk it off to the healthy excersice I get without havign to buy a gym membership.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

800 cords on 100k is $125/cord to put towards payback. That doesn't leave much for your other costs & expenses - with enough left over for your pocket?

That is factoring expenses.

 

[muddstopper]

That is factoring expenses.

And that is how you have to figure your profit. Profit isnt profit, if your not factoring all the cost of production and labor is a big part of cost. I used to try to look at business as a three part cost structure. 1/3 cost was material and equipment. Wasnt much I could do about those numbers so they where a fixed cost of doing business. That 1/3 isnt just the original purchase price of the material, but also the maintenance and replacement cost of keeping that equipment running. 1/3 was also labor, including my employees labor and my own labor, your wages is what you get to spend on your personal expenses, house payments, your fishing boat, your motorcycle, groceries, braces for your kids teeth, what ever. Its your paycheck the same as if you worked for someone else.. I found early that if I could reduce labor cost, I could increase the last 1/3 which was my profit. My profit was everything left over once the bills where paid. Thats the money you get to put in your 401k for when you can no longer work. Profit isnt money you use to buy another piece of equipment for your business. Those expenses are supposed to be included in the first 1/3 cost of doing business, the material and equipment. Anything the increases any part of the first 2/3 of your cost structure, is going to have some effect on the last 1/3 most important part of your cost structure. Looking at buying more equipment, or hireing more employees, has to have a positive effect on your profit, other wise, your loseing money.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I've put all profit right back into the business. It's bought things like more trucks, a firewood bundler, chainsaws, better website, more advertising, upgrades to equipment, etc.... things that don't "have" to happen basically but make for more $$ or less work in the end.


Ideally come tax time it should be as close to ZERO income as possible

 

[muddstopper]

Yea, taxes are a big cost of doing business. Uncle Sam wants to dip his hand in every pot he can find and pull out as much as possible.
I wont speculate on vVlley's or anyone else business models, but I will repeat that if those equipment purchases dont increase the profit margins, then they are just costing you money. If you can buy a new tool and increase productivity and increase income, then all the more reason to add more equipment. If buying a new piece of equipment can reduce labor, but doesnt reduce cost or raises the cost of production , then the purchase was a waste of money. Of course this is just a generalization, buying new equipment to eliminate liabilities might save you money in other ways, such as reduced insurance premiums. Every bodies circumstances are different, goals and what they which to accomplish can be very different. No such thing as a one size fits all business plan.

 

[bigric954rr]

why does no one use a hydraulic accumulator to speed up the hydro log splitter ?

use the extra speed and power while splitting let it recharge while you put more wood or repostilion it ?

 

[muddstopper]

Accumulators supply a boost in fluid flow, but not a substained fluid flow. Activating the accumulator would give a initial burst of speed to a hyd ram, but once the fluid is dumped in the circuit , there is no more power left to finish a split, or retract the cyl. Also, a accumulator is another source of stored energy, lets say you cut the engine of your splitter off to work on it. That accumulator has enough stored energy to extend the cyl if the control valve is activated. The accumulator can store energy for a long time if it isnt bled off. Imagine heading out to split some wood after the splitter has been setting all week and bumping the control valve and that cyl flys out. Or someone, happens to walk by the machine and just has to play with the levers, a real potential serious accident waiting to happen.
I had a piece of equipment once that had a accumulator in the travel circuit. The purpose of the accumulator was to speed up the equipment as it moved from tie to tie in the railroad track. The operator had shut down the equipment and dismounted, the accumulator dumped and the machine took off, striking the machine behind it. I was on the machine behind it and had a cart load of xties on a buggy between my machine and the one with the accumulator. I ended up with my cartload of xties almost in my lap. I developed a very fast dislike of accumulators.

Accumulators also add a extra cost factor to a hyd system. You have to buy the accumulator, a sequence valve, and a check valve to keep the accumulator from dumping back toward the pump.

 

[aokpops]

My processor is about 20 tons. It's very rare I can't split something through a 6 way and I have to sledgehammer it out.... like maybe 15-20 pieces a year rare (out of several hundred thousand).

Don't use a sledgehammer wrap a log chain around an pull it off the wedge .

 

[Sandhill Crane]

Could a Super split do it or would it be campfire wood?

Maybe/maybe not. And certainly not that long.
One of the Oaks I split is very stringy like that, and I'm not sure just what it is either.
I'll get some pics next time I split some.
Never seen the leaf.
Dull brown and stringy when split, not more than 8" dia.
Kind of like Dogwood.

 

[Dirtboy]

I always like to look in on these "what's better" threads. It amazes me how much wood some of you put out that are in the business, and some of the equipment you have. Also interesting to hear how everybody that just heats the homestead does it. I split by hand for a few years until the rotator cuffs and arthritis said "no more". Usually get trees from my woodlot out back that are dying or blow downs, cut them down, chunk-split & stack. On occasion I have bought log loads. I do about 3 1/2 cords a year, at a leisurely pace. Bought a Brave 22 ton hydraulic about 12-14 years ago and would not be without it. I usually split where I drop them. Tried one of them Kinetic splitters once and didn't really care for it. I can see where it works for some, but not being able to go vertical on the big rounds was the biggest obstacle for me.

 

[sawfun]

I would guess the kinetics are mainly a Midwest and east coast machine. Our very common 24 + inch pitchy, stringy fir and hemlock with 6 inch or better knots would not do well with a supersplit type machine.

 

[sunfish]

I mainly split Oak with the Super Split, but was very supersized how well it splits Elm & Hickory.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

My hydro did these splits. Could a Super split do it or would it be campfire wood? Anybody know what kind of wood it is? Pic of a leaf.

Post #11

This stuff is pretty dry, when green it is considerably stringier. Maybe not near as bad as the stuff your doing cantoo. I'm not sure what this is, some type of Oak. No leaf to go by. Typically a dull, deep tan/brown when split. I just flip and resplit, as it does not tear apart easily. Very dense and heavy.

 

[thor97]

Really hard to know without a leaf.

 

[thor97]

It looks like it is in the red oak family, does it smell like piss oak?

 

[cantoo]

Looks like ironwood to me. It gives my splitter a workout too.

 

[Sandhill Crane]

It looks like it is in the red oak family, does it smell like piss oak?

'bout the only thing I can smell is coffee in the morning, and myself midway through these muggy, airless days, but I cover that up with bug spray.

The last photo is misleading on color. Very dull, flat, tan or dirt sandy brown, not like beach sand. Well maybe wet beach sand at the waters edge.

 

[sunfish]

It's Oak, but the bark looks really strange for Oak.