I call B.S. on Stihl. My dyno doesn't lie. MS 461 is king over MS 660
- Thread starter chadihman
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Those results dont surprise me as M adsens dyno'd several 461's and reported about 1/2 hp more than they were rated stock. As far as the 660's go, I sold my 02 066 dual port due to vibes and unimpressive performance. Bought a 395 and wouldn't look back. Way more power with a 36" bar buried and smooth as silk. It also balances a perfectly with a Sugihara lightweight bar. The 066 didnt balance well even with a Stihl lightweight bar. I hope the 166's are a major improvement.
I have read this thread with interest since I have an 046 and a 660 sitting side by side. I have often thought that the power of each was about the same, each pulling a 32" bar. I recently added a dual port muffler to the 046 and did some additional tuning. Dang thing seems stronger than the 660 now and, of course, it weighs about a pound less.
Regardless, I love both of these big saws. It's fun to offer them a 30" elm or cottonwood log and then let the big dogs eat.
Regardless, I love both of these big saws. It's fun to offer them a 30" elm or cottonwood log and then let the big dogs eat.
old-cat
Fir Man
Have Randy the Mastermind port an MS461 and a 660 then do the dyno tests!
treeslayer2003
Addicted to ArboristSite
now i like to see that...........if things go right, i might just do that.
Brush Ape
The Port Authority
On a state of the art direct drive dyno that measures either saw's brake horsepower @ 9500 RPM. That's the revs the motors are designed to make peak power at in the wood. On Stihl's dyno the MS461 makes 6 bhp and the MS660 makes 7 bhp. Stihl figures state that the MS660 is 14.3% stronger than the MS461. "Stronger," is a little ambiguous but let's call it that.
Your figures are skewed 17.6% from those of the engineers who designed the saw. Your variables are, air/fuel mixture, chain tension and operating temperature. I'm not saying your MS660 might not be a lemon, could be.
I thank Chad for his work and look forward to seeing further results both "in the wood" and "from the dyno".
This is valuable information that no one else is providing. If you don't like it, don't read it.
This is valuable information that no one else is providing. If you don't like it, don't read it.
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
No my numbers are not skewed. I tested the 461 and 660 within 20 mins of each other to keep weather conditions the same. I see changes in HP with changes in temp and humidity that's why I'm using my 461as a base saw to compare change from the 660 mods I'm doing. I'm thinking most of stihls #'s are computer generated and a really good running saw is used for there dyno testing. We all know every saw runs a bit different.
Brush Ape
The Port Authority
I'll read anything I want, MustangMike; especially something with a bombastic title. I see a lot of people providing valuable information here. Maybe you can read some of it. I'm glad this kid is trying to build a working dyno.
Some good questions are raised, too. was this one answered?
Brush Ape
The Port Authority
They deviate from established figures from Stihl's lab. Is that a milder way to put it. Sorry, I don't really use enough smileys. What type of instrument did you test the chain tension with?
According to the thread I read, the 660 posted similar results as you state, but the dyno could NOT stop the 660, and could easily stop the 461 when you put them under load.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/sthil-ms-461-vs-stihl-ms-660-dyno-tested.241447/
Brush Ape
The Port Authority
I asked about operating temperature, not ambient temperature and atmospheric pressure. Besides confirmation bias, what leads you to believe Stihl's data is generated via computer model? That's just a target. They test real saws.
Right.
Trx250r180
Saw polisher
Randy ran my 660 against a new 461 ,he ported both ,in about a 24 inch log with a 28 inch bar the 461 was about a second faster in a 30 or so second cut ,he did comment he could lean a little harder on the 660 ,the 660 was ported for milling also ,that could have been another factor ,if you are in bigger wood all day the 660 is built stronger ,bigger bearings ,clutch etc ,when i mill with a 70cc saw the clutch gets pretty warm over the 660 also ,just depends what you use the saw for ,packing a 660 all day will make you a knuckle dragger over the 461 though
Actually, no. It isn't. Most of the harder woods, according to the Janka Scale, are not grown in the US. And woods with similar names, like Beech and Cypress, are significantly more hard outside of the US.
Brush Ape
The Port Authority
Dang I thought this was genetic.
Osage Orange, Maclura pomifera 2760lbf; hard enough to compare with anything still legal to cut.
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Some good questions are raised, too. was this one answered?[/QUOTE]
Yep
Yep
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
My good old fashioned brain. I stated earlier that I carefully adjusted the chain to slightly sagging on the dyno bar.
Not sure what legality has to do, since we aren't talking about illegally cutting wood. But the Aussies will more commonly cut denser would than you would. Which was the point. Osage Orange isn't even as hard as Iron Bark, a typical Australian hardwood. I mean, if you want to quote wood that isn't terrifically common like Osage Orange, the Aussies have 'Snakewood'. It has a janka rating of 3800+, and is often used as ornamental wood.
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Might have blew that pump most of the way with the 461
"might have" sounds a lot like an "If" or a "but", doesn't it? You know where I stand on engineering and dynos. Let's keep it honest. Break that 660 in, put a factory dual port on it(which is where STIHL gets the HP rating), and put it head to head with the 461.
