I call B.S. on Stihl. My dyno doesn't lie. MS 461 is king over MS 660

[SierraWoodsman]

In the opening sentences you said "your 461 is broken in and the 660 was broken in on the dyno with 2 tanks thru it" How many tanks do you have thru the 461? I wouldnt think a saw would be broken in with 2 tanks. Maybe 10-15.

+1. Ring's may not be completely seated yet.

 

[cutforfun]

i like the dyno info you come up with, but i dont think you can brake in a saw with the dyno in two tanks of fuel. get some more cutting done with the 660 and re do the test.

 

[chadihman]

"might have" sounds a lot like an "If" or a "but", doesn't it? You know where I stand on engineering and dynos. Let's keep it honest. Break that 660 in, put a factory dual port on it(which is where STIHL gets the HP rating), and put it head to head with the 461.

I'm sure a muffler mod will prove different. I tested a dual port on my 461 and it didn't show any improvement. I know the 660 does. So you think Stihl tests with dual port? I'll get some more run time on this 660 and retest. It has almost 3 tanks through now. What do you think broken in is? 5,10,15,20

 

[porsche965]

Conventional saw like the 660? I'd say 5-10 just guessing. Stratos seem to be 15 or more.

 

[wyk]

I'm sure a muffler mod will prove different. I tested a dual port on my 461 and it didn't show any improvement. I know the 660 does. So you think Stihl tests with dual port? I'll get some more run time on this 660 and retest. It has almost 3 tanks through now. What do you think broken in is? 5,10,15,20

Since it hadn't changed from the dual port to the non dual, I would assume it is an old rating. So, for one, you are right - it is over-rated. But, why not give STIHL a fair shake and try with and without the dual port after ya break her in. I doubt anyone would argue she isn't broken in after 15 tanks. But, that's a lot of wood...

So, that 461 didn't show any improvement at all? It didn't even change the powerband?

 

[porsche965]

15 tanks for a 660, even though they use a considerable amount of fuel, IS a lot of wood in the hands of a good operator!

 

[chadihman]

15 tanks for a 660, even though they use a considerable amount of fuel, IS a lot of wood in the hands of a good operator!

Sure is. Big tank on a 660

 

[Trx250r180]

i only get 3 cuts to a tank on my 660 ,saw be broken in in about an hour of cutting

 

[mdavlee]

I was about to say set that puppy up milling for 2 hours and you'll burn 3 gallons. Last milling I did I got 1 cut per 1.5 tanks.

 

[treeslayer2003]

jeez Brian, mines not that bad.......i can normally fall close to a load with it........no topping just falling.

 

[Trx250r180]

jeez Brian, mines not that bad.......i can normally fall close to a load with it........no topping just falling.

cut the tree the tall way and see how good on fuel it is

 

[RedFir Down]

cut the tree the tall way and see how good on fuel it is
View attachment 352833

That is a nice piece of fir! Whats your plans for it?

 

[MustangMike]

After 5 tanks it should be broken in, lets be reasonable here (unless you are sending donations for fuel).

And if Stihl rates it with the dual port muffler, they should offer it that way here.

Funny how the new Stihls don't seem to benefit much from Muffler Mods, but the old ones do. Perhaps someone can give an explanation?

 

[Trx250r180]

That is a nice piece of fir! Whats your plans for it?

I sliced it into 5/4 x 6 deck boards for my front porch ,i still have to finish planing some of it ,then i can install it

 

[OnTheRoad]

Not sure what legality has to do, since we aren't talking about illegally cutting wood. But the Aussies will more commonly cut denser would than you would. Which was the point. Osage Orange isn't even as hard as Iron Bark, a typical Australian hardwood. I mean, if you want to quote wood that isn't terrifically common like Osage Orange, the Aussies have 'Snakewood'. It has a janka rating of 3800+, and is often used as ornamental wood.

Where I am from, Osage Orange (aka Hedge) is very common. I can't find a comparable Janka number for your Iron Bark. How much harder is it compared to Hedge, as a percentage on a Janka scale?

 

[one.man.band]

looking at the dyno graph from DLG testing gives a max. HP value of 7.0 HP (5.2kW) @ 9500 rpm, for a 066 ('98 w/decomp).

the DLG rpms vs. HP vary from those posted here. since, the rpms are different, the curves of HP/TQ will differ as well, due to the math.

these are two saws sold with differing uses in mind. which saw do you think can withstand milling, or long bar use...over a longer lifespan.......the bigger or smaller cube?........ even if they had equal HP/TQ.

hope the new saw withstood the dyno break in. wow.

over it here.

-omb

 

[StihlFroling]

Yeah My 461 might have 20 tanks through it. I ran the 660 hard through two tanks. I pulled it down hard through a range of rpms and then letting it cool down before giving it a workout again. I'm no master at breaking a saw in but my guessing is that the hard workout on the dyno on two tanks is worth more than 5 tanks in wood.

Couldn't be further from the truth. What percentages are you running on your load? Does the load cell have the same geometry relationship on both saws? 1/64ths" count big time. What was the start compression and post break in? Has it peaked yet? Owning a dyno is one thing, having the years of expertise and knowledge on how to operate and interprete data is another. specifically with saws and two stroke power curves. Not any other engine. I'm not saying this is impossible, but it surely is something to look into more.

Stijl uses an Eddie Currant

 

[Deets066]

I have never ran either of the above stated saws but I have run both 066 and 046 stock and this is not the case at all for these saws. Each has their place, bigger wood, bigger saw. Not saying your info is wrong, but when stihl tests saws they test a great number of saws not just one of each.
Thanks for the great info and would like to see more on this topic.

 

[walexa07]

Chad, I commend you on going through the trouble to provide solid data like this to us. I hate that there are so many truly negative naysayers on here. I can't say I'd blame you if you decided to just quit posting any of your findings, but I do hope you can see through the negative comments and understand that many here appreciate what you do so much. Reminds me of an old saying, "those who can, do. Those that can't, teach". You are definitely one who can do - not some armchair scholar.

My personal constructive criticism would be that what you have is a somewhat single set of data points, and I don't think you would argue with that. There are many variables at play here, and some have been mentioned. You could have a really well running 461, a 660 that isn't broken in, and possibly some other things along those same lines going on. It could also be that your findings may be average for stock versus stock. Regardless, your findings are significant in my eyes and many others. I am anxious to see what you find with more testing, modding, etc. - and you seem to be a real straight shooter - so I know you will report whatever you find.

I wish I could afford to send you 3 new 461s and 3 new 660s for testing/comparisons. Although I know it would still happen, it would be difficult for some of the naysayers to argue with those kinds of averages IF they turned out in favor of the 461.

Keep up the good work, buddy........

Waylan

 

[Brush Ape]

I've read the whole thing and no one is saying he can't or he shouldn't. Why would the kid want to quit posting here? There's plenty of interest from the right crowd. Either he has a superb cherry MS461, a wounded duck MS660 Magnum, both or a faulty process. There's no nay saying in it. Don't act like a bunch of chicks.