I can't hand file a chain!

[2broke2ride]

My opinion, take those file guides and throw them away. They do not allow you to clean out the gullet of the tooth and you will lose the hook very quickly.
Freehand, two or three swipes at a sharp downward angle to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal level file with slightly up and back pressure for as many strokes as it takes to get a sharp tooth. Forget the business about same number of strokes, file each tooth to sharp and then set each raker to its corresponding tooth and it will absolutely cut straight. Currently you have too much hook, meaning you are too deep into the gullet. You need to file the top plate back. You can go to the next file size up if available to knock the hook off then go back to proper size, or just have someone grind it back into shape.
Again, just my opinion and what I've learned through trial and error.

 

[Okie]

Here is a video of the Stihl 2 in one file guide. Looks good. I've never used one of those.

Just be sure you get the correct size for your chain.

 

[scottr]

My opinion, take those file guides and throw them away. They do not allow you to clean out the gullet of the tooth and you will lose the hook very quickly.
Freehand, two or three swipes at a sharp downward angle to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal level file with slightly up and back pressure for as many strokes as it takes to get a sharp tooth. Forget the business about same number of strokes, file each tooth to sharp and then set each raker to its corresponding tooth and it will absolutely cut straight. Currently you have too much hook, meaning you are too deep into the gullet. You need to file the top plate back. You can go to the next file size up if available to knock the hook off then go back to proper size, or just have someone grind it back into shape.
Again, just my opinion and what I've learned through trial and error.

When a cutter top plate needs to be filed back for any reason a raker file turned sideways is a quick and accurate method. A larger file is a very inefficient method.

 

[FishNJ]

Big fan of the 2-in-1. Pferd CS-x is the same. Can get them for $34 on eBay.


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[aokpops]

I really don't like hand filling hurts my hands the file sucks because it's dull after one round . If you really need to hand file get a carlton fileoplate . I use a dermal for the last upteen years.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

The file guides do not seem to have any value unless they can be used as a learning tool. My experience started at age fourteen with a very old Mac and one file. A guy that owned a hardware store offered me good money to rid his places of trees. After some trial and error attempts my hacking at the wood and chain was under way. At first a few inches of cut into a log was the way to hold the saw and soon that gave way to a vice. Then after ten years of cutting the rakers were finally getting addressed. Then after all that effort was made into making a chain that was sharp and stay sharp. The set up from most advice has been overlooked. The position of the saw with at least the chain adjusted to a stable condition is important along with the saw being held so that it is not rocking back and forth. My vice screws into a log or stump so choosing a convenient level place to work is just as important as any thing else. You need to be able to see the top of the cutters and the face of the cutters clearly. Your body position to the saw needs to be both comfortable and stable not on your knees where you might loose your balance. Sitting or in a squat position has proved effective. After that you will learn how much pressure needed to restore your chain into cutting machine. One pass with a flat file on the rakers every other sharpening session seems good before touching the cutters. Use a sweat shirt or jacket to put on the end of the bar so that you can rest one arm on the chain without getting cut and wear gloves at least while you are learning. File the cutters until you see any rounded areas on the leading corner of them disappear. If your angle is a little off no worries because there will be a next time. If you hit a hard knot wrong on one side and it starts cutting in curves it is because it is not balanced. Most often both sides need to be filed at least some to keep chain from drifting. No body gets it perfect first time, but a little practice and a great method will produce fantastic results. One day will there will be a video on exactly how to accomplish this, but my camera needs to be upgraded. BTW getting nice handles for your files are as easy as cutting a few small hardwood sections of limbs about 4 to 6'' long with a 1/8 hole on each end. Thanks

 

[Little Al]

The file guides do not seem to have any value unless they can be used as a learning tool. That was why I suggested the Husky roller guide ,to give the OP an idea of the filed profile the poster that commented on the non gullet cleaning this is easily sorted with a couple of file swipes free hand. my point was to give the OP the correct height/shape of the cutter profile to give him an idea on what his filing should end up looking like. if you chain sharpening method gets you a sharp chain you are happy with go with it.

 

[Okie]

I really don't like hand filling hurts my hands the file sucks because it's dull after one round . If you really need to hand file get a carlton fileoplate . I use a dermal for the last upteen years.

I've got a dremel sharpener and I only tried to use it once and the stones started wearing out and losing their shape real fast and also if I remember correctly the tool was actually turning the stone into the top of the tooth instead of from the bottom.
It's still in it's original box with some stones, seen it few days ago. I think it is the single speed Dremel tool. (seemed to maybe be going too fast also and had to be careful and not burn a tooth)
Might drag it out one of these days and give it a second look, still has all the original instruction sheets, etc.

I've seen couple guys with the STIHL 12v dremel type sharpeners and they indicated they liked them but they did not know how to hand file or how to even cut down the rakers so I just took their advice of liking their sharpener with a grain of salt. One of the guys had about 10 chains about 1/2 worn out on the teeth hanging on the side of his fencing truck and I ask him about those chains and he said they would not cut. I showed him how to check and file down the rakers and that a old chain is best type for clearing out fence rows, instead of buying new chains. (he was happy afterwards)

I went to hand filing and never looked back few years ago.

Files do not get dull after one round of sharpening if they are good type files and not allowed to rattle around loose with other files while being transported.

and yes hand pain can be a problem for some people.

Respectfully.

 

[ConservationNation]

I've got a dremel sharpener and I only tried to use it once and the stones started wearing out and losing their shape real fast and also if I remember correctly the tool was actually turning the stone into the top of the tooth instead of from the bottom.
It's still in it's original box with some stones, seen it few days ago. I think it is the single speed Dremel tool. (seemed to maybe be going too fast also and had to be careful and not burn a tooth)
Might drag it out one of these days and give it a second look, still has all the original instruction sheets, etc.

I Went to hand filing and never looked back few years ago.

Files do not get dull after one round of sharpening if they are good files and not allowed to rattle around loose with other files while being transported.

and yes hand pain can be a problem for some people.

Respectfully.

Good point on storing files, I wrap mine with a rag in my toolbox.

 

[holeycow]

in over 30 years of working alongside professional sawhands (as a surveyor, coordinator, job manager, etc) I have not seen a single one of them use a guide or a bench or a vice or anything but a file to sharpen a chain, FWIW here. It takes a little practice and a decent eye and sharp files is all.

And yup, upward pressure, very slight up-angle and roll the file through every stroke using almost all of the file (long, deliberate, even pressure strokes). It is easier when you have the saw in a comfortable position with the chain properly tensioned. And wear gloves. I have seen a couple of nasty hand cuts from a chain sharpening event.

Myself; I have learned to kind-of sharpen is all.

Pushing on a saw to make it cut (faster) is unbelievable to me. The saw should gently and smoothly draw itself through the wood. You should never have to push, IMO. The saw and the chain has it's own pace to work at. You are merely directing traffic.

 

[JeffreyZirkle]

I prefer to hand file my saw and I use a file guide. It's very handy for keeping your angle correct. I also measure my teeth on my chain and keep both sides even. A lot can go wrong in 48 inches.

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[JTM]

If I can learn to hand file so can you. I have three types of guides; the 2 in 1, the bar mount Oregon, and the guide that attaches to the file. Go ahead and use them . They are good training tools. After using them you will set them down and start free handing because you've trained your yourself how to maintain proper angles. And you can do a downward angle with the file for a couple of strokes to clean the gullet out and then come back up into the top plate like where you would be with a file guide. After two sharpenings take a couple of swipes on your rakers with a flat file (unless you're using the 2 in 1). They have depth gauges for this, and they are good tools to get you there, but I don't use them because there comes a point as the cutter gets shorter that the standard .025" depth between the top of the cutter and the raker won't give you enough bite. What I do (this is where it gets OCD) to true everything up after a few sharpenings is use a digital angle finder between the top of the cutter and the raker and file my rakers down to a specific angle. My cutters are never the same length but the angle between the cutter and the raker is. Therefore I get the same bite in the wood with each cutter regardless of cutter length.

 

[Robin Wood]

My opinion, take those file guides and throw them away. They do not allow you to clean out the gullet of the tooth and you will lose the hook very quickly.
Freehand, two or three swipes at a sharp downward angle to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal level file with slightly up and back pressure for as many strokes as it takes to get a sharp tooth. Forget the business about same number of strokes, file each tooth to sharp and then set each raker to its corresponding tooth and it will absolutely cut straight. Currently you have too much hook, meaning you are too deep into the gullet. You need to file the top plate back. You can go to the next file size up if available to knock the hook off then go back to proper size, or just have someone grind it back into shape.
Again, just my opinion and what I've learned through trial and error.

i second this
this is how i file exactly, no fancy tools at all
i dont even have raker guide, just eye ball them
file gullet couple strokes to get the hook and then hit the cutter edge
if done correctly it will pull the saw into the wood

 

[user 149785]

I will give you a piece of advice an old wood cutter gave me years ago. Ever tried to cut a piece of paper with a good sharp knife ? You have to draw the knife edge thru the paper.dont just shove the file through use your left hand to pull the file through while your right hand guides the file and apply steady pressure with both hands.keep your angles correct.count your file strokes and use the same ammount on every tooh.except for one variable.you may run into the occasional tooth that could use a couple extra licks.go ahead and file it till sharp on the next few sharpenings give it one less eventually it will catch up.keep practicing eventually you get good at it.

 

[skipster]

stick with it.took me about a year,but it came eventually. use a magnifier to examine your work sometimes,and see where youre going wrong. it takes time,but you can eventually throw all your guides and gizmos away and get a better job.

 

[Robin Wood]

someone mentioned file becoming dull after 1 sharpening, could be debris in the file burrs. some people tap their files to remove it, i use a cloth that i found that has some sort of static. when i wrap the file around and pull it kinda suck the metal shavings like magnet

what i hate the most with dull chains are the chrome surface of the cutter chipping out, it takes a good deal of filing to reach back to the undamaged area. if the damage isnt too bad i wont file till the undamaged part mainly being economical

 

[Okie]

If I can learn to hand file so can you. I have three types of guides; the 2 in 1, the bar mount Oregon, and the guide that attaches to the file. Go ahead and use them . They are good training tools. After using them you will set them down and start free handing because you've trained your yourself how to maintain proper angles. And you can do a downward angle with the file for a couple of strokes to clean the gullet out and then come back up into the top plate like where you would be with a file guide. After two sharpenings take a couple of swipes on your rakers with a flat file (unless you're using the 2 in 1). They have depth gauges for this, and they are good tools to get you there, but I don't use them because there comes a point as the cutter gets shorter that the standard .025" depth between the top of the cutter and the raker won't give you enough bite. What I do (this is where it gets OCD) to true everything up after a few sharpenings is use a digital angle finder between the top of the cutter and the raker and file my rakers down to a specific angle. My cutters are never the same length but the angle between the cutter and the raker is. Therefore I get the same bite in the wood with each cutter regardless of cutter length.

I mentioned this earlier in one of my posts about this type of file guides that uses the top of the tooth and the top of the raker to hold the file at the proper height. If the raker depth is not corrected FIRST before using this type guide when a tooth is about 1/2 way back the chain will just produce dust instead of chips. (because the raker is holding the guide and therefore also the file too high up on the tooth being sharpened) If you hand file to clean the gullet then go back and start sharpening with the file guide you are just undoing what you just tried to correct by hand filing. You are just pissing into the wind and like a dog chasing it's tail not getting anywhere and removing metal from the tooth that would not normally need to be removed if using a HAND file guide that is riding on the too high raker and when the rakers are too high, the file is too high on the tooth, period and you file and try to cut and file some more and then you need a new chain because you ran out of tooth metal.
Doing the same thing over and over (filing with the guide) and expecting different results just won't cut the mustard and results in you getting disgusted and buying a new chain usually. think about taking your chain to someone who can hand sharpen a chain and you can learn more in about 2 minutes watching and listening vs messing around on it yourself if it keeps getting worse.

I have not seen a 2 in 1 stihl guide out of the package. I was thinking that the 2 in 1 rested on TWO of the teeth so as the flat file will file down the associated tooth being sharpened at same time raker to the proper Height?????? (instead of like some hand guides that just ride on one tooth and it's associated front raker)

I also noticed that the 2 in 1 with the 5.5mm file is not readily available.

 

[Hinerman]

My opinion, take those file guides and throw them away. They do not allow you to clean out the gullet of the tooth and you will lose the hook very quickly. Freehand, two or three swipes at a sharp downward angle to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal level file with slightly up and back pressure for as many strokes as it takes to get a sharp tooth.

You are saying throw the file guides away because they do not clean out the gullet. Yet you say freehand two or three swipes to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal file level to sharpen a tooth. I am not picking up what you are putting down.

For those reading this thread, file guides (doesn't matter which one) are excellent tools if you use them properly....just like freehanding. And if the file guide doesn't clean out the gullet to your liking, then file the tooth, remove the guide, and take a few strokes on the gullet...just like freehanding.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

My $0.02 is that file guides do not work, but get in your way IF you are cutting on a regular basis. If you are some one who cuts wood for a few days in September to heat your home then free hand filing might not be your expertise. That being said anyone can learn to file any chain if they want. This learning process takes some time and effort to do a great job. For those folks who cut once and a while a $29 HF grinder might be their solution. For those who look at their chain and know that the leading edge is getting rounded with some nicks then hand filing is their answer. Hand filing is fast cheaper and very effective as compared to anything else. Many times I have to stop cutting because my chain just will not pull the saw through the wood any more. When those times occur it maybe takes 6 strokes to get the thing straightened out. I look at my chain and know what I am after such as a more aggressive set up for soft wood. Keep the chips flying. Thanks

 

[JTM]

You are saying throw the file guides away because they do not clean out the gullet. Yet you say freehand two or three swipes to clean out the gullet then go back to a normal file level to sharpen a tooth. I am not picking up what you are putting down.

For those reading this thread, file guides (doesn't matter which one) are excellent tools if you use them properly....just like freehanding. And if the file guide doesn't clean out the gullet to your liking, then file the tooth, remove the guide, and take a few strokes on the gullet...just like freehanding.

I think you got exactly what the poster said.