I can't hand file a chain!

[Hinerman]

I bought one of those Husqvarna roller guide hand sharpeners a couple years ago and haven't paid to have a chain sharpened since ! Cut a couple trees down at a cemetery a couple days ago and one of the guys said wow who sharpens your chains ! Hard to believe but I think they cut better than brandnew chains.

But, but, but, file guides are useless and get in the way.

Nice to hear a voice of reason.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Your right on semi chisel lasting a little longer I've got several of them. In the vid that was a oak that blew down end of last summer. Here's another vid I did after I cut some of it up. The chain still performed pretty good.

X how long does your chisel chain last? My use of chisel chain has for most part stopped. One year down Oak is probably green. I bought some bars and saws about four years ago equipped with chisel chain. My thinking was to use up the 50' or so of chisel chain knowing that in some situations it would do well, but others not so well. With smaller Pine it walked right through it. With larger Pine it worked well if the knots were avoided. Then started on dry Oak where as maybe three or four cuts if careful. With the semi chisel it needs to be touched up at least every thirty minutes. It has been probably twenty years since I have even looked at any tree that is newer than five years down. Thanks

 

[X 66 Stang347 X]

I'm not a everyday cutter by no means. So I don't dull up but a couple chains at a time. That chain in the vid I ended up swapping it on the second tank. And yes tree was still a little wet on the larger sections. I'm fairly new to the square filing so I'm been playing with that. I run the HO oil pump wide open

We sell a lot of RS chain so I save the 2-3 foot ends of the roll and make up what I need. I probably have 30-40 chains sitting around. That's some nice dry logs you have.
I've heard trees that grow in sandy soil is hard on chains is there any truth in that?

 

[Ted Jenkins]

You may have a very interesting point. For most of Southern California is very SANDY. I had not thought if the soil conditions played a major part of the chains getting dull. There is always some sand in all the logs even if they are growing and green. I did a timber sale about 100 miles west of the logs shown cut and I could cut all morning or after noon with only a minor touch up to the chains. The reason most likely was it was an area that had not been logged and everything was very green. The dry Oak chains never have lasted more than 20-30 minutes of cutting. I have tried all major brands of chains including Stihl and it only matters a little. That is why I put emphasis on file sharpening. It looks like you are moving along very well and for sure you understand enough to become a genuine expert soon. BTW I have hundreds of large logs to play with. About 20% of my logs are dry Oak and they are really really hard on chains. Thanks

 

[JeffreyZirkle]

You may have a very interesting point. For most of Southern California is very SANDY. I had not thought if the soil conditions played a major part of the chains getting dull. There is always some sand in all the logs even if they are growing and green. I did a timber sale about 100 miles west of the logs shown cut and I could cut all morning or after noon with only a minor touch up to the chains. The reason most likely was it was an area that had not been logged and everything was very green. The dry Oak chains never have lasted more than 20-30 minutes of cutting. I have tried all major brands of chains including Stihl and it only matters a little. That is why I put emphasis on file sharpening. It looks like you are moving along very well and for sure you understand enough to become a genuine expert soon. BTW I have hundreds of large logs to play with. About 20% of my logs are dry Oak and they are really really hard on chains. Thanks

Oak by nature is hard on a chain. I have to sharpen my saw more often in the oak and hickory than anything else.

Sent from my SM-N920R4 using Tapatalk

 

[Philbert]

Lots of advice.

Some is contradictory, so you can't follow it all!

My mantra: 'Lots of was to sharpen; you have to find something that works for you'.

I think that file guides can be very helpful to control file position. But they each work differently. Pick one and stick with it - going back-and-forth between different types will just confuse things. If you find someone to teach you, maybe choose the same one they use. I also like to file a chain that is not moving, which means that the guide bar is clamped in some type of vise - lets me use both hands to control the file.

But the most important thing is to know what you want your cutters to look like when you are finished filing. If you don't know what a sharp cutter looks like, you will have no idea if you are 'doing it right' or not. Some guys keep a short piece of new chain next to where they file, and compare it to the cutters that they are filing. Take your time and get each cutter 'right' before moving on to the next. You will build up speed later.

If that does not work, there are other ways to sharpen, and several threads on those methods.

Good luck!

Philbert


"Cheshire Cat" Alice asked, "which way do I go to get from here?"
"That depends" said the Cat, "on where you want to go."
"I really don't much care" replied Alice, "as long as it is away from here."
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go" replied the Cat.

 

[echomeister]

To me one major reason to hand file is that you can easily only remove the right amount of metal necessary to restore the sharpness to each tooth. And no risk of overheating so chain lasts much longer.

The way I started hand filing was by focusing on nothing other than the correct angle throughout the file stroke. It took a while to file a chain at first but your hand - eye coordination will catch on soon enough. When sharpening anything a single stroke at the wrong angle can booger up the edge. Keep the angle correct and you will be successful.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Lots of advice.

Some is contradictory.

My mantra: 'Lots of was to sharpen; you have to find something that works for you'.

I think that file guides can be very helpful to control file position. But they each work differently. Pick one and stick with it - going back-and-forth between different types will just confuse things. If you find someone to teach you, maybe choose the same one they use. I also like to file a chain that is not moving, which means that the guide bar is clamped in some type of vise - lets me use both hands to control the file.

But the most important thing is to know what you want your cutters to look like when you are finished filing. If you don't know what a sharp cutter looks like, you will have no idea if you are 'doing it right' or not. Some guys keep a short piece of new chain next to where they file, and compare it to the cutters that they are filing. Take your time and get each cutter 'right' before moving on to the next. You will build up speed later.

If that does not work, there are other ways to sharpen, and several threads on those methods.

Good luck!

Philbert

View attachment 578927
"Cheshire Cat" Alice asked, "which way do I go to get from here?"
"That depends" said the Cat, "on where you want to go."
"I really don't much care" replied Alice, "as long as it is away from here."
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go" replied the Cat.

I could not agree more and some might want to get the HF $29 special as little learning is needed. Thanks

 

[Mike Kunte]

Hi!

I used to use the Stihl file guide, but when chain grinders entered my life, things changed. They are really, really great at restoring a chain to "factory spec" - however, it is not practical to drag them into the woods! Then I started cutting bigger, harder wood, and needed to maintain the cutters "in the field", so to speak. I looked up countless videos on hand sharpening, and spent days training my hand with a chain in a normal vise. I went to my local Stihl dealer and requested a few links of new chain which I keep in my box and use as a reference to compare my hand-filed chains to, to make sure that I stay "on course", and do not wander off too far from the ideal angles. Finally it began to come together. I now use a stump vise to hold the saw, and touch up the cutters every few tanks, depending on the hardness of the wood I'm, cutting. When filing, it's important to "over tension" your chain a bit to keep it from rocking under the filing stroke. When you are done, don't forget to restore the proper chain tension!

Buckin' Billy Ray has a few good videos (although he is a bit of a cowboy!), but he took the mystery out of the subject of hand filing, and made it accessible to us mere mortals, who do not necessarily earn a living from running saws ( he calls us "friends"!).

The best video by far is this one by Tips from a Shipwright and is to be found here: This is the most logical, calm explanation you will find on proper filing techniques!

To finish, remember the classic saying: "And O! But to practise!"

Happy filing and safe cutting!

Mike

 

[RandyinTN]

Man, I've never even tried, it just LOOKED like something I'd suck at. I bought a decent electric sharpener/grinder and made sure I had enough chains to last the day.

Same for me. The electric does a fantastic job. By the time I dull two chains am to bushed to continue anyhow. No veering off course and I can sharpen a chain in 5-10 minutes taking off just enough. Perfect. I get the same amount of satisfaction doing it with a machine as I do by hand. Only thing that matters to me is the result.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I’ve literally just started learning to hand file the other day. The results are so much better than both the 2 in 1 file I have tried and also the standard stihl filing jigs. They are both hateful.

I guess like anything, time, practise (the right thing) and repetition.

As a professional knife sharpener some of the principles are transferable.



I have basically worn the below chain down to nothing now just practising filing. Putting in lots of hook purposely and then removing it. Dinging the teeth bad and cleaning them up etc.

Too much hook

Then removed it



I went my stihl dealer and asked if could a left and right cutter from .404 semi chisel to copy from. I like so much it’s now going to be a key chain (after I take the sharp edge off)



If anyone has any recommendations as to who is the best in the game at hand filing, let me know as I want to learn what I can!

 

[Philbert]

If anyone has any recommendations as to who is the best in the game at hand filing, let me know as I want to learn what I can!

You seem to be doing pretty good! Nice photos too. Can you show us the bevels too, in addition to the outsides of the edges?

Just remember, as opposed to knives, these teeth get slammed into tree bark around 20 times per second, so an ultra fine edge is not as important as a strong one.

Philbert

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

You seem to be doing pretty good! Nice photos too. Can you show us the bevels too, in addition to the outsides of the edges?

Just remember, as opposed to knives, these teeth get slammed into tree bark around 20 times per second, so an ultra fine edge is not as important as a strong one.

Philbert

Hey, sure, and yes I was advised about the strength / hook dance. I need more experience with how far I can take it in what wood.



Sorry for all the metal filings and the big burr on the top plate, I have just been going at the chain practising.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I have set the teeth to a little more of an aggressive top angle and going to try it out. I want to see how just changing the top plate and leaving the raker height on the hard setting still affects how it runs.
Then I may try dropping the rakers and repeating it with more and less hook




My thumbs tell the story of checking the working corner and top plate is sharp ha..

 

[Paul4Parts]

If it were me I would spend a few $'s on a correct size Husky roller filing guide it will keep you to the correct file depth you can then if you wish copy the profile free hand

I call these idiot proof because even I can get great chips by filing with that.

 

[Paul4Parts]

I call these idiot proof because even I can get great chips by filing with that.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

My rule of thumb has always been to increase gullet for softer woods. Decrease gullet for harder dirty woods thus ending up with a little more blunt edge. Having aggressive rakers has also been important. From the pictures I see the rakers way way off as they need to come down more. High rakers mean that the cutting does not feed well and will cause cutters to get dull faster. A good way to know is file the rakers down and when the saw shakes you know you have gone too far. Thanks

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

My rule of thumb has always been to increase gullet for softer woods. Decrease gullet for harder dirty woods thus ending up with a little more blunt edge. Having aggressive rakers has also been important. From the pictures I see the rakers way way off as they need to come down more. High rakers mean that the cutting does not feed well and will cause cutters to get dull faster. A good way to know is file the rakers down and when the saw shakes you know you have gone too far. Thanks

Hey Ted, thanks for sharing your experience! I’m not sure if you’re talking about my rakers or the OP? Mine are on the hard setting on a stihl progressive raker file.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Hey Ted, thanks for sharing your experience! I’m not sure if you’re talking about my rakers or the OP? Mine are on the hard setting on a stihl progressive raker file.

Yes I have way too much experience. And yes your rakers need to come down. There was a day when I said I do not have time to touch my rakers. That was long ago. I think the process is just like riding a bicycle or swinging at a golf ball. After awhile one look at your chain will tell you what it needs. Practice practice. Often sharpen a new chain run it gets dull then take two strokes off of the rakers with a flat file then sharpen cutters. On the forth or fifth sharpen process the rakers should be very noticeably with a flat spot. As far as a gauge goes not sure what to say because many people use a gauge and get one side uneven. Philbert has responded to many sharpen questions and has posted many charts as to the measurements. Me not so sure how to measure as I sharpen until it looks right. Thanks

 

[Philbert]

I use a gauge to be consistent.

I also try to round over any flat spots, so that there are no sharp points that could dig in.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauge-tools-for-saw-chain.279374/
Philbert