I would rather let it rot....

[Erick]

Alot of guys here act as if this guy should have let Avalancher cut on his property no questions asked. Almost as if it is expected and this guy has no right to NOT let people cut on his property. and "Screw HIM" if he doesn't let you cut there...The Lazy beggar remark was obviously because he has seen him there before asking for the same thing.

Being a landowner myself( with a ton of wood on it) I don't blame this man. he has probably beened burned about as many times as I have.
I have heard it all before also,

* I will help you cut wood if you let me hunt here
* I'm an electrician and I will trade services for hunting privledges.
* I will only cut the wood laying on the ground.
* I will not drive through your fields since they are a bit soft from rain..
* I will help you bale hay in exchange for wood.

Well, these promises NEVER pan out. They either don't show up to help at all so the hunting privledges are gone for sure, OR they show up to hunt with 4-5 of their buddies and pretty much take over and have a total disreguard for deals stuck earlier in the year. I have caught people just flat out trespassing and cutting wood ( one of which I told NO just a week earlier) I have also caught a guy in my own dam treestand and they asked me if i had permission to hunt there !!!!!

I say good for that ol' man. It is his wood and if he wants to let it rot on the ground that is his choice as the land owner....Afterall, Avalancher ( although I'm sure he meant no harm) went up to HIS house. The Ol' man didn't go looking for a suitable arborist and then change his mind......I wouldn't advise a third trip out there, he might not be as nice as he was the past few trips...

Sorry, but this is a subject that has screwed me more times than I can count...

:agree2:


The man said NO...... TWICE!

Let it go.

If he was interested in letting you on his property he would have chatted with you a bit to feel you out, if he had wanted your help he would have asked for it.

You asked.... he said NO....... you asked again........ he said NO again, except this time he said it in a way you could understand since you didn't get it the first time.

I would bet if you showed up with a load of "charity" wood, you will get a much bigger ear full than you have already, he WILL take your charity as an insult to his pride..... don't go there.

Best case scenario is he takes your offering as a bribe to let you cut wood on his property, and that aint gonna go over to well either.

Just let it be and move on.

 

[Madspeed]

his loss, to bad it's not also your gain!

 

[walexa07]

I think you are all reading this wrong.

Avalancher's first asked and the farmer said no, I have millions of family members that are going to get that wood. A year later Avalancher goes by again and sees that the wood has gone untouched.......I would have done the same thing, ask again as maybe the family thing didn't pan out. I have done this before and that actually been the case, from a guy that lives 1/4 mile down the road from me.

Anyway, Avalancher's attempt at giving them some wood is not in an effort to ask again and finally score that other wood.......it is a kind gesture to someone who obviously burns wood, is old and reminds him of his grandparents, and to possibly show that he is indeed not a lazy beggar.

I see both ways........maybe leave it alone, or maybe go with your gut. Might even drive up with the load of wood and before he can say anything tell him you are not there to ask about cutting wood on his property, that you just brought him a little something and ask where he wants it stacked, nothing wanted in return. Personally I think Avalancher sees the ordeal as a challenge, much the same way i would, to actually break through the tough hardened shell of the old man, probably leave there feeling better leaving the old man with a different opinion of "people in general" than if the old man had given permission to cut on his land.

I can also understand the attitude of the old man..........I am sure he has seldom ever reaped any benefits from someone getting anything from him or using his land for whatever.......kinda like loaning out a chainsaw to a neighbor. More times than not, unless they are in the minority, your saw will receive some sort of damage until you reach the point that you do not loan it out period. It is easier for the old man to just group everyone into the "lazy beggars" group and be done with it versus trying to figure out who's good/who's bad.

Again, good luck Avalancher. You are the only one who can assess the situation and make a good decision.

Waylan

 

[avalancher]

I think you are all reading this wrong.

Avalancher's first asked and the farmer said no, I have millions of family members that are going to get that wood. A year later Avalancher goes by again and sees that the wood has gone untouched.......I would have done the same thing, ask again as maybe the family thing didn't pan out. I have done this before and that actually been the case, from a guy that lives 1/4 mile down the road from me.

Anyway, Avalancher's attempt at giving them some wood is not in an effort to ask again and finally score that other wood.......it is a kind gesture to someone who obviously burns wood, is old and reminds him of his grandparents, and to possibly show that he is indeed not a lazy beggar.

I see both ways........maybe leave it alone, or maybe go with your gut. Might even drive up with the load of wood and before he can say anything tell him you are not there to ask about cutting wood on his property, that you just brought him a little something and ask where he wants it stacked, nothing wanted in return. Personally I think Avalancher sees the ordeal as a challenge, much the same way i would, to actually break through the tough hardened shell of the old man, probably leave there feeling better leaving the old man with a different opinion of "people in general" than if the old man had given permission to cut on his land.

I can also understand the attitude of the old man..........I am sure he has seldom ever reaped any benefits from someone getting anything from him or using his land for whatever.......kinda like loaning out a chainsaw to a neighbor. More times than not, unless they are in the minority, your saw will receive some sort of damage until you reach the point that you do not loan it out period. It is easier for the old man to just group everyone into the "lazy beggars" group and be done with it versus trying to figure out who's good/who's bad.

Again, good luck Avalancher. You are the only one who can assess the situation and make a good decision.

Waylan

Thanks for that summary, I could not have put it better myself. I had no interest in stalking the guy, bribing him with wood, or any other mischief. All along I thought I was doing the right thing by offering to cut him some wood inchange for taking some, and later after that fell on deaf ears my "gift of wood" was merely my way of saying "Im sorry if I offended you."

 

[Mike PA]

If he sees you as being someone who will cut on his land and then sell the wood, that could be some of the source of the problem and the reason for the beggar remark. I've had several people give me permission to cut on their land, but for personal use. Keeps down the number of trips and the amount of wood taken out. That way, if his family wants or needs it, he knows it will still be there for them, also.

I have also offered 50-50 split of the wood that I cut, and deliver the first load to them.

He will likely be insulted by you taking wood to his place, whether he needs it or not. Sometimes you need to let people be. I would only talk to him again if I saw him out someplace. Only you can judge how he will take it, but, in my experience, the best way to break through that crust is with time and coming across the person elsewhere, on neutral ground. Good luck and be careful.

 

[cutitup]

Don't sweat it man. One time there was a local coffee shop I used to stop by every day on my way to work. I kinda new the elderly couple that owned it but I wouldn't't say that we were 'friends' per se. Anyhow next to his coffee shop was a piece of land that he had a few billboards on that he owned and made money on. I noticed that several trees had grown up and stared to obscure the billboards. So I'm thinking to myself "heck its right along the road and it's pretty flat maybe I'll help these nice folks out and score some wood at the same time. So I ask the owner "How 'bout I clear that view of your billboard for you gratis I'll just take the wood?" So he says "How much wood do you think is there?" I say "I dunno maybe two cords or so...." He says how much is a cord?" I say "I dunno I've NEVER bought wood in my life." He then grabs the newspaper and says "Well wood is going for $150 a cord so for $300 I'll let you do it." I smiled and said "I'll think about it." And I NEVER stepped foot in the door again.

 

[ktm rider]

The whole driving through my hay fields after a rain thing will end your hunting privileges permanantly with me. Another one I love is when they ask if they can hunt on your property, and once you agree, all of a sudden it turns into him, his brother, his cousins, his buddies from work, etc... I told you that YOU could hunt here, not the whole family!

YES !! That is the #1 Offense of people that I let hunt on my property. It seems that "Just him and his one buddy" turns into 4 buddies...

Believe it or not the Dept of Natural Resources ( Game Wardens) are more guilty of riding through my fields this than anyone. I have caught them 3 times now. They always claim " They heard a gun shot" when quesitoned who gave them permission to trespass...

 

[PA Plumber]

Hope you all don't mind another post on this thread.

I went out with the bow tonight and hunted an area I haven't been in a couple of months.

The power line had a contractor come through to spray a couple of months ago. They called me to ask permission to move trees off of an access I had blocked due to unwanted traffic. I told them yes as long as they put the trees back.

Well lo and behold, I found an area 12' wide and nearly 80 yards long where the tree company had cut an access in from the neighbor's field through our woods to get to their power line.

WHAT!!??!!??!!??!??!?!

Man, am I irritated! The access I had given them permission to use was less than 100 yards away and they have to go and tear a whole right through the trees!!

I'll be getting on the phone tomorrow to start working on this mess.

No wonder that old guy was grouchy. I'm feel'n a little that way myself, right now!

 

[olyman]

YES !! That is the #1 Offense of people that I let hunt on my property. It seems that "Just him and his one buddy" turns into 4 buddies...

Believe it or not the Dept of Natural Resources ( Game Wardens) are more guilty of riding through my fields this than anyone. I have caught them 3 times now. They always claim " They heard a gun shot" when quesitoned who gave them permission to trespass...

yup--they get on that badge-----------next noise would be towards them--theyve been warned---

 

[woodchuck361]

Its just me but I would let it go. Deliver him wood? Nice though but forget it. Some where in the past he has been taken advantage of or at least he feels he has and that ruined it for you. Best thing to do is forget that place is even there. I don't think you could ever get through to him. Anything you do now will just make him madder. If he is that old just wait till he kicks and ask the wife to cut, make her the offer of cut and split wood for rights to cut on Her property. Bet she will say yes. Might be a long wait. Good luck

 

[woodchuck361]

Hope you all don't mind another post on this thread.

I went out with the bow tonight and hunted an area I haven't been in a couple of months.

The power line had a contractor come through to spray a couple of months ago. They called me to ask permission to move trees off of an access I had blocked due to unwanted traffic. I told them yes as long as they put the trees back.

Well lo and behold, I found an area 12' wide and nearly 80 yards long where the tree company had cut an access in from the neighbor's field through our woods to get to their power line.

WHAT!!??!!??!!??!??!?!

Man, am I irritated! The access I had given them permission to use was less than 100 yards away and they have to go and tear a whole right through the trees!!

I'll be getting on the phone tomorrow to start working on this mess.

No wonder that old guy was grouchy. I'm feel'n a little that way myself, right now!

I'm sure a settlement can be reached for the price of the trees cut and damages. Good luck. NO ONE ON MY PROPERTY UNLESS ITS FAMILY OR I'M THERE PERIOD.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Alot of guys here act as if this guy should have let Avalancher cut on his property no questions asked. .

Some of the views are interesting. Wonder if those whos lean would seem to be a bit socialistic own land in any quantity?

Around here the worst for being the "off my land" type are those who just came from the city to thier new 5 acre "farm" They keep the local hardware bought out of no trespassing signs, fence etc.

 

[woodchuck361]

When we cut on someone eases property we have written permission, with a clear description of what can be cut, where, and how much and at what times. Before we ever set foot on the property. That way there is never a misunderstanding or an oops I meant that tree not this one. This is done out of respect for the land owner and the land. I would allow someone on my property with the same level of regard for me and my property. We don't have tree to cut on the farm though its all horse fields and pasture.

 

[BRCCArborist]

I think you are all reading this wrong.

Avalancher's first asked and the farmer said no, I have millions of family members that are going to get that wood. A year later Avalancher goes by again and sees that the wood has gone untouched.......I would have done the same thing, ask again as maybe the family thing didn't pan out. I have done this before and that actually been the case, from a guy that lives 1/4 mile down the road from me.

Anyway, Avalancher's attempt at giving them some wood is not in an effort to ask again and finally score that other wood.......it is a kind gesture to someone who obviously burns wood, is old and reminds him of his grandparents, and to possibly show that he is indeed not a lazy beggar.

I see both ways........maybe leave it alone, or maybe go with your gut. Might even drive up with the load of wood and before he can say anything tell him you are not there to ask about cutting wood on his property, that you just brought him a little something and ask where he wants it stacked, nothing wanted in return. Personally I think Avalancher sees the ordeal as a challenge, much the same way i would, to actually break through the tough hardened shell of the old man, probably leave there feeling better leaving the old man with a different opinion of "people in general" than if the old man had given permission to cut on his land.

I can also understand the attitude of the old man..........I am sure he has seldom ever reaped any benefits from someone getting anything from him or using his land for whatever.......kinda like loaning out a chainsaw to a neighbor. More times than not, unless they are in the minority, your saw will receive some sort of damage until you reach the point that you do not loan it out period. It is easier for the old man to just group everyone into the "lazy beggars" group and be done with it versus trying to figure out who's good/who's bad.

Again, good luck Avalancher. You are the only one who can assess the situation and make a good decision.

Waylan

Haha I actually laughed at this. Just leave the poor old guy alone! You've already irritated him twice in the past year, now you want to insult him by bringing him firewood?

Lol just messing around, I know you mean well, but seriously, just leave him be!

 

[CLEARVIEW TREE]

Thanks for that summary, I could not have put it better myself. I had no interest in stalking the guy, bribing him with wood, or any other mischief. All along I thought I was doing the right thing by offering to cut him some wood inchange for taking some, and later after that fell on deaf ears my "gift of wood" was merely my way of saying "Im sorry if I offended you."

Some people are just that way ed. Just don't read into it so much ya know. Take er with a grain of salt and go your merry way. Just like with a few neighbors, i've tried to be nice to people and for the most part it really dosn't pay these days. Heck he prolly thought he was sittin on a gold mine of those tops, and believed you'd cash in on far more than you gave him. People are gettin more rediculous by the day. I seldom ask for much anymore. Take great care of you and your family, take kind care of your customers and friends, and kill every a- hole ya meet with kindness and when they go home and look in the mirror it'll kill em every time. They wonder why they have such a miserable life and can't be nice like you were to them.

 

[arhillbilly]

go back one last time ,explain you weren't trying to beg wood, point to a section of tops and ask, how much would you want for that spot. make it a definite area, if he lets you buy it and you do a good job, maybe the door opens for more. i am finishing a job now that the landowner was almost like that when i first asked to be the timber,because of hard scre:censored: he took 10 years ago with some dopehead loggers, he is as good of a freind as i have now. good luck

 

[cityevader]

Avalancher, I truly admire you.
This world needs far more people like you with convictions and consideration and follow-through, who cares for others as much as for yourself.

One very important thing was previously mentioned.....neutral ground.
Without knowing the old guy, I'd say his feathers would get ruffled if approached at his place again, and he won't see past his anger at the gift of wood.

Maybe the closest I would hope for is to intercept the wife at the mailbox again (hopefully separated from the house by a bit so you don't have to drive in?) State your intentions exactly how you are feeling them. Clearly you're not after their wood, rather, desiring good relations...Get in with the rational wife first if you simply must pursue this.....but speak to her only once.

Give a gentlemanly nod goodbye at whatever the response, be your courteous self IF you deliver some wood, a quick in-and-out, and let it rest after that. At the MOST, wave hello if you pass by them again....but let it rest.

 

[mranum]

I wonder if the old guy would think that the wood would have come from his own land and that you had a guilty conscience for taking it in the first place?

That wouldn't be the case but....

Just a thought.

 

[JBinKC]

In my experience the best way to talk to a farmer for permission rights is small talk and try to incorporate some ties to the area and to mention names of neighbors in it and from that initial conversation you can get an idea if the farmer is approachable for a second time.

After reading what has transpired. The family/children excuse (which is a common excuse) and inaction tells me the guy is not flexible- respect his privacy and let the wood rot.

 

[Gologit]

A different perspective

I'm a logger and I'm also a farmer/rancher. We have some timber ground of our own and at one time we used to let people come up after we logged and cut the culls and tops and whatever was left. We always made sure one of us was on hand when the wood gatherers were there but we figured they were doing us a favor and for quite a few years it worked out real well.

A couple of years ago a guy rolled his pickup over...and over and over and over, trying to haul too big a load of split wood across a steep sidehill. He didn't get hurt but his pickup was totalled. He threatened to sue us because we allowed a hazardous condition to exist that resulted in the wreck of his pickup. The case never went anywhere because it was bogus on it's face but it sure got us to thinking.

We talked to our attorney and he suggested that we increase our liability coverage by several million dollars just in case something like this happened again. We decided the best course was to just end firewood cutting altogether. We didn't want to because we liked having the cutters clean up after us and everybody came out ahead. But we're not wealthy people and the thought of losing everything we have because of some lawsuit brought by somebody's errors or bad judgement helped us make our decision.

It's a damn shame, really. Now when we log off a piece of our own ground we brush'rake all the slash and burn most of it. What a waste.