Thats sad. how one horses a** can want to sue over something they did themselves. Loads of people out there can't be resposible for what they do, it's always "someone else's fault"
I would rather let it rot....
- Thread starter avalancher
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Thats sad. how one horses a** can want to sue over something they did themselves. Loads of people out there can't be resposible for what they do, it's always "someone else's fault"
logbutcher
Addicted to ArboristSite
From one who has been where you are now: let it go. As my PITA D.S. used to say during training : "...Sir, you don;t want to die on that hill."
You may mean well, but in no way can yo impose your ethos on someone. Even in a strict hierarchy of orders like the military, you need to convince your men most of the time. Remember, there is no right or wrong here: you feel that you're doing right, yet it is a matter of space and privacy and ownership. His land, his beliefs, his feelings. Empathise here: would you like a stranger ordering you to ssay bring up your kids in his way ?
In today's vernacular: you are invading his space. Back away and do what you think in right somewhere else. And, from my bright Exec: " you can only change yourself."
Not to preach here Avalancher, but you are pushing the envelope, no matter how correct. Hey, come Downeast and take our slash.
This Prof. is signing out. JMNSHO.
Oh yeah, the bill is in the mail. :monkey:
You may mean well, but in no way can yo impose your ethos on someone. Even in a strict hierarchy of orders like the military, you need to convince your men most of the time. Remember, there is no right or wrong here: you feel that you're doing right, yet it is a matter of space and privacy and ownership. His land, his beliefs, his feelings. Empathise here: would you like a stranger ordering you to ssay bring up your kids in his way ?
In today's vernacular: you are invading his space. Back away and do what you think in right somewhere else. And, from my bright Exec: " you can only change yourself."
Not to preach here Avalancher, but you are pushing the envelope, no matter how correct. Hey, come Downeast and take our slash.
This Prof. is signing out. JMNSHO.
Oh yeah, the bill is in the mail. :monkey:
alderman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Who pays the taxes?
I would think it would be his right to act any way he wanted when it comes to giving wood away. I've had to run several people off our property and been told by some the owner gave them permission to cut. We have on occasion let certain people in to cut but it seems that if somebody outside the family is seen cutting on the place, others think it is their invitation also.
I've even had one guy threaten me for taking "his" wood when I was cutting on our own place.
I would think it would be his right to act any way he wanted when it comes to giving wood away. I've had to run several people off our property and been told by some the owner gave them permission to cut. We have on occasion let certain people in to cut but it seems that if somebody outside the family is seen cutting on the place, others think it is their invitation also.
I've even had one guy threaten me for taking "his" wood when I was cutting on our own place.
tm84p
ArboristSite Lurker
I didn't make it through all the posts so I don't know if this was covered already but I've just come across a similiar problem, though in a much nicer way. A neighbor of ours has a few stacks of wood that he has had out in a field all summer, we were talking with him a few weeks ago and he offered us one of the stacks if we want as he knows we just put in a CB5036. The next day we went there to start cutting and we met him again. only htis time he said he had a talk with his lawyer about it and the lawyer strongly recommended he didn't let us cut that wood on his property. From what he said the lawyer told him that even if we signed a disclosure form there are loopholes in the law and even if we using our Homeowners insurance and something happened, our insurance company could still sure them for the money. Basically if anything happened, no matter who was at fault and even if we had no intention of ever suing, they could still end up losing everything if an accident happened. Apperently this had happened a few years ago with a farm 8 miles down the road from us. A farmer had been letting some neighbours cut wood for years. They had signed release forms and everything but then sometime last year they had an accident. They weren't insured but they did have medicaid and the State came in and sued them for all they had, they lost a 150 acre farm because of it.
Austin1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Really they should have a law if you are dumb enough to hurt yourself you should be castrated so as not as to spread your genes!Yes coffee is hot and a Chainsaw is a dangerous thing in the wrong hands. And all my rifles have a trigger job or after market trigger on them lol
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
Had a similiar experience myself, but it worked out okay. A local company had some land cleared off by the highway, and I called them to ask permission to cut the oak tops all over the place. The guy said he couldnt give me permission to cut because of the liability factor.I said that I was perfectly wiling to sign a waiver, but he said he still couldnt "give" me permission.I wondered about the tone of his voice when he said "give".
I then asked then if a guy was to show up and start cutting, would I get arrested?He said "Nope"
I still cut there, the maintence guy that maintains all the property waves at me ever time I am out there,but nobody says a word. I delivered two ricks of wood to the coporate head honcho that couldnt "give" me permission for Christmas last year in a way of saying thanks.
their rules are simple, they better not find not even one piece of trash laying around, I better not show up with some friends, dont disturb the hay fields, and no ruts from trucks. In other words,it had better look like I had never been there except for wood chips.
That has been my bigggest problem cutting there, it rains and I am looking elswhere to cut for at least a week until the ground firms up.
I then asked then if a guy was to show up and start cutting, would I get arrested?He said "Nope"
I still cut there, the maintence guy that maintains all the property waves at me ever time I am out there,but nobody says a word. I delivered two ricks of wood to the coporate head honcho that couldnt "give" me permission for Christmas last year in a way of saying thanks.
their rules are simple, they better not find not even one piece of trash laying around, I better not show up with some friends, dont disturb the hay fields, and no ruts from trucks. In other words,it had better look like I had never been there except for wood chips.
That has been my bigggest problem cutting there, it rains and I am looking elswhere to cut for at least a week until the ground firms up.
tm84p
ArboristSite Lurker
Thats what I thought of as well, I even asked him "what if we had no release form and no written permission from you, that would be trespassing and you could deny all liability" but he had just gone through a divorce and even though he wanted to help us he didn't want to take the risk.
Maybe we're setting ourselves up for something bad but having a waiver signed to come in and cut wood? I've never heard of it, I've cut wood in almost all the neighbors timbers and the only rule is only take it if it's dead or fallen over but take as much as you want. Getting crazy out there.
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
Cant blame the guy really, some folks are really sue happy. About the farmer that I was asking(in the beginning of this post)I found out why he was so grumpy about the wood issue.A farmer that I know real well also knows him and the topic came up last week when I bumped into him at the feedstore. He said that right after the property was logged off last year, some idiot on a four wheeler was dragging wood off of the back of his property down to his house,unknown to the farmer.Evidently the grade was steep enough that when the guy came to a stop mid way down the hill, the log that he was dragging did not stop and busted him up pretty good.
He sued the farmer because the logging crew had removed a good deal of the fence between the two properties, and he claimed that he thought he was still on his own land.(yeah,right!)
In the end, the farmer is having to pay for his medical bills and time lost. The case is on appeal, but it sounds like he is still going to have to pay out the
A$$
I wouldnt even let the mailman on my property either if I had to go through all that.
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
Nothing unusual about a wiaver,it gives both parties a peaceful mind.I have drafted one up many times for homeowners and farmers that I have cut wood on.Like someone pointed out, it may not hold up in court,but its nice for both parties to have in writing what is to be cut, what to do with the brush piles, and a release of liabillities. I know that a few weeks ago I ran into a Craigs list tree that I had wished I had drawn up a proposal before the job got started. The guy drove me crazy with extra work he figured that I should do for the privelage of removing some wood.
I have never taken down a tree in a hazard area where there are buildings around without a signed waiver.I want it understood that if something goes wrong I am not responsible for any damage.Would it hold up in court?Probably not, but if the homeowner signs it,they are less likely to want to sue someone.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yah, that is why in my neck of the woods most farmers will not let you:
Ride ATV's / dirt bikes
Hunt
Fish
Cut wood
One guy let his own son-in-law on his land to ride his 4-wheeler, he wrecked, got whacked pretty bad and..SUES HIS OWN FATHER-IN LAW!
The woodlot across the road...the owner did a nice fancy permission letter for me,I asked him if he wanted me to sign a waiver (no)...he said since I've been in Mt. Falls all those years that I should have enough sense to not have an accident!
That's country-style trust, boys.
:greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw:
Ride ATV's / dirt bikes
Hunt
Fish
Cut wood
One guy let his own son-in-law on his land to ride his 4-wheeler, he wrecked, got whacked pretty bad and..SUES HIS OWN FATHER-IN LAW!
The woodlot across the road...the owner did a nice fancy permission letter for me,I asked him if he wanted me to sign a waiver (no)...he said since I've been in Mt. Falls all those years that I should have enough sense to not have an accident!
That's country-style trust, boys.
:greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw:
avalancher
Arboristsite Raconteur
Yah, that is why in my neck of the woods most farmers will not let you:
Ride ATV's / dirt bikes
Hunt
Fish
Cut wood
One guy let his own son-in-law on his land to ride his 4-wheeler, he wrecked, got whacked pretty bad and..SUES HIS OWN FATHER-IN LAW!
The woodlot across the road...the owner did a nice fancy permission letter for me,I asked him if he wanted me to sign a waiver (no)...he said since I've been in Mt. Falls all those years that I should have enough sense to not have an accident!
That's country-style trust, boys.
:greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw:
That must have made for a wonderful Thanksgiving dinner conversation!
Not to mention I wouldnt have a safe place to sleep in my house if I sued my father in law.
Yep, and I wish we all could go by the country style Trust system. Wasnt that long ago men closed a deal with a handshake, and a dispute out back with a rough and tumble.Now everyone calls a lawyer.
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Increasing the liability insurance converage may help or may not...
When in an auto accident some years back, I asked the attorney about this after the fact. His theory was the law suit will be the sum of all the insurance coverages, so more coverage might simply attract more carrion feeding lawyers. Cover the expected, but don't put too much bait out there.
I did however bump up my liability coverage because my un/underinsured medical coverage is based on the amount of liability coverage I have.
And I do have considerable professional libaility coverage for job mistakes (buiness has nothing to do with wood or trees)
I have a standard waiver form in the car for asking permission for motorcycles, woodcutting, shooting, hiking, etc. Or when I take someone out to teach motorcycle riding, they sing the same thing. Usually does not help convince anyone. It is helpful when there is a personal connection or when a person is sort of agreeable to letting us cut, but has reservations. When I bring up the waiver first, it gives them peace of mind and sort of a way to rationalize giving us permission like they wanted to in their heart. But it really doesn't convince anyone they are sue safe.
When in an auto accident some years back, I asked the attorney about this after the fact. His theory was the law suit will be the sum of all the insurance coverages, so more coverage might simply attract more carrion feeding lawyers. Cover the expected, but don't put too much bait out there.
I did however bump up my liability coverage because my un/underinsured medical coverage is based on the amount of liability coverage I have.
And I do have considerable professional libaility coverage for job mistakes (buiness has nothing to do with wood or trees)
I have a standard waiver form in the car for asking permission for motorcycles, woodcutting, shooting, hiking, etc. Or when I take someone out to teach motorcycle riding, they sing the same thing. Usually does not help convince anyone. It is helpful when there is a personal connection or when a person is sort of agreeable to letting us cut, but has reservations. When I bring up the waiver first, it gives them peace of mind and sort of a way to rationalize giving us permission like they wanted to in their heart. But it really doesn't convince anyone they are sue safe.
tm84p
ArboristSite Lurker
Thats exactly it, everyone is so focused on themselves that when problems arise, instead of helping each other out people just try to grab what they can (sue), never mind who they step on to get it (father-in-law). It was good to hear the result of why the farmer was the way he was. It has been my experience that farmers are one of the few remnants of what old school hospitality is in America. The power to sue is one of the things that breaks it down. It is a terrible thing when people are too afraid of each other to reach out and help someone.
bigjake
ArboristSite Operative
The guy was an old hatefull SOB he could have just said no thats like someone
asking to use your phone because they broke down .you know i help people
when i can and it feels good .And anyone who has ever cut wood is not a lazy
begger it is hard work .this guy most likely hates hiself and everyone .Why
would he not want to see someone work for heat .
asking to use your phone because they broke down .you know i help people
when i can and it feels good .And anyone who has ever cut wood is not a lazy
begger it is hard work .this guy most likely hates hiself and everyone .Why
would he not want to see someone work for heat .
MATTYB11
ArboristSite Operative
He sued his own Father-in-law! that's sick I would never! Now my mother in law on the other hand......
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