Its Electric!

[benz66]

You are missing the point, I haven't said there weren't problems with the other sources of energy.
I am pointing out you are just trading horses. I looked into wind here a few years ago, the windmill had a projected lifespan of 20 years. The loan would have been 23 years after NYCERDA subsidies. The warranty on the mill was 3 years, not really a confidence booster in ever reaching a point where it paid for its self or saw a benefit.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future
Of course it is cheap, when it is someone elses kids in someone elses back yard breaking their backs.
You are looking at this through rose colored glasses. I use battery powered tools daily, I own thousands of dollars worth of them. Battery tech is advancing in leaps and bounds, but there is a dark side to them and anyone who thinks differently is sadly mistaken. The green and sustainability is not there.

Exactly! If/when there are NO subsidies for windmills and/or solar, the only people using that as primary energy source will be those with NO alternative (in remote area) and they build their lifestyle to use VERY LITTLE electricity. They have either a dorm size refr. or a GAS powered refrigerator, using propane, a <shudder> fossil fuel. Yes, you can grow and can food, but where will the energy come from to heat the jars, wash the food, and heat the filled jars?

As the Germans and other Europeans get very cold this winter, more and more of them will pull their heads out of the sand and look around, and find the truth about the "green" religion. It is a fake religion. It will not save them nor resources.

 

[slowp]

Another great post with insults.

I do understand how they work (well not tidal) I asked you where you would implement them. That was an honest question and you chose an insult. You talk about willfully ignorant...well many folks are truly ignorant in the fact that they pipe off about wind and hydro but have no clue about where they can be placed nor the ramifications of the placement. Both methods have limited areas of use specifically hydro. solar is a bit easier to implement but has a entirely different set of ramifications.

Uh, go back and read. We've had wind turbines, and major wind turbine "farms" in this state for at least ten years--I think longer. More are added. Plus, they are located in the sagebrush for the most part. I don't like to see them, but the view of a wind farm is better than the view of a strip mine, or an oil spill. The world is bigger than Iowa or Indiana or wherever you live. Maybe get out more??

There is a proposed solar project but the neighboring wheat farmer doesn't want their view wrecked. I will stay out of that.

And yes, all this takes maintenance and that means JOBS. More than the minimum wage farming jobs pay. That's what the Goldendale resident was talking about.

The dams have been doing well for some time. Generators have been replaced, some have had to have water lowered due to earthquake danger, some have had cracks repaired, but we've got a pretty well educated workforce and engineering schools that churn out brains to figure those things out. More importantly, our power has been able to handle the summer heatwaves and the winter chill. That's more than you can say about some other places we won't mention. We don't have to run away to Cancun.

My power has been off for 6 hours about 2 years ago and that was from a wildfire ripping through the brush where powerlines are located. Not bad, I was ready for a much longer stretch.

As for waste? We've got engineering brains working on that. Something will be figured out and I think it already has been figured out.

I won't live long enough, but I think it will be wonderful when the noisy diesel pickups are no longer running around blowing out eardrums and spewing black smoke. It just might be a quieter and more pleasant world.

 

[slowp]

Exactly! If/when there are NO subsidies for windmills and/or solar, the only people using that as primary energy source will be those with NO alternative (in remote area) and they build their lifestyle to use VERY LITTLE electricity. They have either a dorm size refr. or a GAS powered refrigerator, using propane, a <shudder> fossil fuel. Yes, you can grow and can food, but where will the energy come from to heat the jars, wash the food, and heat the filled jars?

As the Germans and other Europeans get very cold this winter, more and more of them will pull their heads out of the sand and look around, and find the truth about the "green" religion. It is a fake religion. It will not save them nor resources.

I'll ask again. What is your suggestion for the future? You naysayers refuse to speculate on that. Is it a failure to be able to think beyond the now? What is your problem. Why can't you give us some alternatives to the dreaded future? And what is wrong about "building a lifestyle to use VERY LITTLE electricity? What's wrong with that? What's wrong with a small refrigerator if that's all you need? You come across as one of those people who must have a lot of stuff, which requires a big house, which requires more money.... Maybe those people using less energy might have something good going?

Are you in the fossil fuels business?

 

[northmanlogging]

Exactly! If/when there are NO subsidies for windmills and/or solar, the only people using that as primary energy source will be those with NO alternative (in remote area) and they build their lifestyle to use VERY LITTLE electricity. They have either a dorm size refr. or a GAS powered refrigerator, using propane, a <shudder> fossil fuel. Yes, you can grow and can food, but where will the energy come from to heat the jars, wash the food, and heat the filled jars?

As the Germans and other Europeans get very cold this winter, more and more of them will pull their heads out of the sand and look around, and find the truth about the "green" religion. It is a fake religion. It will not save them nor resources.

Coming from someone that brags about selling fire wood by the face cord. (i.e. of f#*($%^ crook)
your arguments make about as much sense

 

[slowp]

About 10 years ago now I was working for action mining in sumerset pa. They were putting wind mills up as the pits were being back filled. Got to talking with one of the technicians and he said if it wasn't for the government subsidies there wouldn't be money in the turbines in our area. They projected 20 year life of the turbines, but we're having main shaft bearing issues between 2 and 5 years. That guy was there to address the issue in a 3 year old turbine.

OIl has been subsidized for years. We lease out public land for them to drill on. That's a subsidy plus corporate tax breaks. I'm sure there's more.

Maintaining turbines is another form of employment to embrace.

When I was growing up, our dads built the dams in this part of the country. I was talking to a local near one that my dad worked on, and he mentioned that the dam made a major impact and improved the economy in that little backwoods area.

The downside is that salmon are trucked around the dams on that river. The salmon part is a major hurdle that's had a lot of money thrown at it for not very good results. We need to bite the bullet and build fish ladders at the dams or make the fish cannon (yes there is one) more common.

 

[JRM]

correction Lithium batteries are already being recycled
https://www.batteryrecyclersofamerica.com/lithium-batteries/

Tesla says it can recycle up to 92% of their batteries but have also conceded it is not economically feasible to do so. They admitted (as recently as 2021) that it is cheaper to make new vs dismantle old and reuse. And there is zero regulation in the US saying manufacturers have to recycle.

We all know how big corporations will do the right thing even though it costs them.....

 

[slowp]

Coming from someone that brags about selling fire wood by the face cord. (i.e. of f#*($%^ crook)
your arguments make about as much sense

Firewood is subsidized also. Permits are sold for quite cheaply to cut on public lands. Firewood cutters use roads that are maintained by taxpayers. I've done cleanup after firewood cutters have trashed areas. They like to leave slabs of bark and limbs on roads and in ditches. Firewood cutters have stolen wood from log decks. Firewood cutters tear up roads, by driving on roads when roads are muddy. I could go on and on about firewood cutting....I used to hate having to deal with them. Several told me they'd have me fired. What terrible thing was I doing? I was having them move out of No Firewood Cutting areas into legal areas. Jerks.

 

[slowp]

Tesla says it can recycle up to 92% of their batteries but have also conceded it is not economically feasible to do so. They admitted (as recently as 2021) that it is cheaper to make new vs dismantle old and reuse. And there is zero regulation in the US saying manufacturers have to recycle.

We all know how big corporations will do the right thing even though it costs them.....

Does this mean it has to be that way forever? We are in the early days of transitioning. Again...

What do you suggest we do for the future?

 

[Bill G]

Uh, go back and read. We've had wind turbines, and major wind turbine "farms" in this state for at least ten years--I think longer. More are added. Plus, they are located in the sagebrush for the most part. I don't like to see them, but the view of a wind farm is better than the view of a strip mine, or an oil spill. The world is bigger than Iowa or Indiana or wherever you live. Maybe get out more??

Well I do get out plenty and maybe you should to. Take a drive across western Iowa on interstate 80 between Des Moines and Omaha.

In case you did not know Iowa was the 2nd largest producer of wind energy. Recently Oklahoma bumped Iowa to 3rd. Of course Texas is far ahead of them. Also Iowa leads the nation on the percent of it's power than comes from.wind.

 

[JRM]

Does this mean it has to be that way forever? We are in the early days of transitioning. Again...

What do you suggest we do for the future?

Triggered much? Calm down, it's a discussion.

 

[Leeroy]

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...-broad-problems-at-flagship-oregon-wind-farm/
Seems like these wind farms get shut down for months for maintenance. Are they really reducing the use of fossil fuels? One of the first in the country was off our coast here in Rhode Island and has had very costly downtime.
Have not looked into lately. I'd like to believe it will help-our electric company is proposing a 46 % rate hike-
but I am skeptical. Lots of corruption on large projects here, in my opinion.

 

[slowp]

Well I do get out plenty and maybe you should to. Take a drive across western Iowa on interstate 80 between Des Moines and Omaha.

In case you did not know Iowa was the 2nd largest producer of wind energy. Recently Oklahoma bumped Iowa to 3rd. Of course Texas is far ahead of them. Also Iowa leads the nation on the percent of it's power than comes from.wind.

Then why act like it is brand new to you? You seem to be unaware of the existence of wind turbines in your prior posts.

 

[slowp]

Triggered much? Calm down, it's a discussion.

Not at all. You still have not answered the question. That's the problem. You folks tend to put down all new technology but do not provide any alternatives to the present day use.

 

[JRM]

I give credit where credit is due. The idea that we are to totally eliminate the use of fossil fuels is a pipe dream. Cut back, sure, absolutely. It would benefit everyone not to be so oil dependent. Hybrid systems are extremely efficient and don't rely on batteries that are equally as toxic and limited in capability nor do they place more of a strain on our outdated grid. I'm not against wind and solar either, as a supplement, where warranted. But neither will ever be able to completely replace fossil fuels as we are being told. The number of solar panels and wind mills would be staggering. Just think about the sheer number that would be required, including enough reserve to cope with others being offline for maintenance/repairs. And then factor in the ability to charge everyone's EV when ICE vehicles are supposedly no longer built. It's just crazy. The fact is, diesel and natural gas are clean, reliable forms of energy. Without them the world comes to a halt. That won't change in this lifetime or the next. New technology is a good thing. Technology being forced upon the masses that's not capable of doing the work of what we have, not so much.

 

[cookies]

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2020-02-06/wind-turbine-bladessuper green and sustainable..
geothermal and nuclear are more consistent and eco friendly per kilowatt than other forms of power generation. We should be planting more trees and requiring trees planted in parking lots.We should be shifting internal combustion passenger cars to natural gas and installing power rail lanes for charging and powering freight haulers. I believe the powered road system is the missing link in the ev system tho I do believe hybrid systems are much more realistic system.

 

[Bill G]

Then why act like it is brand new to you? You seem to be unaware of the existence of wind turbines in your prior posts.

What posts show I am unaware of it?

 

[benz66]

Firewood is subsidized also. Permits are sold for quite cheaply to cut on public lands. Firewood cutters use roads that are maintained by taxpayers. I've done cleanup after firewood cutters have trashed areas. They like to leave slabs of bark and limbs on roads and in ditches. Firewood cutters have stolen wood from log decks. Firewood cutters tear up roads, by driving on roads when roads are muddy. I could go on and on about firewood cutting....I used to hate having to deal with them. Several told me they'd have me fired. What terrible thing was I doing? I was having them move out of No Firewood Cutting areas into legal areas. Jerks.

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I cut our trees on our land. I am not a thief. Everyone got more than good measure too. But that was 50+ years ago. Watch where you hurl your incendiaries. One might burn your bum.

 

[les-or-more]

Not at all. You still have not answered the question. That's the problem. You folks tend to put down all new technology but do not provide any alternatives to the present day use.

You folks tend to not have a clue.
Wind is not new technology, solar is not new technology.
No one is putting down alternative energy sources, we are pointing out their shortfalls, they are not the end all be all, they have their issues just like fossil fuels and hydro.

 

[benz66]

One thing for sure. Greenie is a religion. No one will ever convince them they worship a false religion; until they are freezing and starving.

 

[Bill G]

Maybe in your neck of the woods. I cut our trees on our land. I am not a thief. Everyone got more than good measure too. But that was 50+ years ago. Watch where you hurl your incendiaries. One might burn your bum.

I am betting she would say hunting is subsidized. How about logging on USFS or state lands?