jammed log splitter

[mga]

fair enough, engineer dude. i'm agreeing with you 100%. as a former toolmaker for GM for 30 years, i understand completely.

that being said, cheap cylinder or not, there must be a reason why that thing bottomed out and stuck. since cylinders are basically the same; ie: rod with a piston, then either the rod is bent and hung up on the seals or the piston end broke. or, possibly the control valve messed up inside. removing the lines will prove that.

i'd try a hydraulic jack to back it up. what's the worst that could happen? it would break something that's already broke?

 

[redprospector]

I'm not taking up for the Chinese, but I've had American made equipment break for lack of quality control.
You don't always get what you pay for, but you will always pay for what you get!!!

Andy

 

[richoj]

hello, guys----I'm back working on my log splitter. I would like to tell you what I've done, and maybe get some more advice.

I made a tool to unscrew the faceplate---easy. The nut had come off, so I was able to just slide out the ram. Next, there are two sets of seals, both of which were about 10 inches back into the cylinder. These were tough to pull out, so I made a tool, kind of like a wheel puller---messy, but it worked and last, I got out the nut and washers. Cylinder was smooth---lucky.

HOWEVER, when I checked the nut and threads on the end of the ram, BOTH were stripped---can't figure how that could happen unless it was damaged at assembly. Am now looking to have the end turned down and rethreaded or, maybe I can just have someone weld the nut to the ram shaft?

Either way, I am puzzeled as to putting back the front seal. The rear seal is held on by the nut, but the front seal assembly doesn't seem to be "locked in" ----do I just put it in and screw in the faceplate ? does the oil pressure hold it in place ?

The last question I have is how do I replace the hydraulic oil---is there a certain way to do this?

Thanks for putting up with a beginner in log splitters.

 

[Patrick62]

My thoughts

I have rarely seen the inside of a cylinder, but here goes. I would think re-threading is a option. Not a bad guess that it was buggered from day one. Welding the nut back on is a kinda permanant fix, but the chances of having to service this again might make it worth it.

Replacing the oil is simple. Fill the tank, and then start the engine, low speed if possible. Run the ram about 1/2 way, then add fluid. Run it rest of the way, add more fluid. Then cycle it a few times, add more fluid. Eventually the bubbles will work out.

-Pat

 

[richoj]

Thanks, Patrick62 and others.

I hate myself for doing this, but, you know, I posted to this site because I had a problem with my splitter that, for several reasons, I wanted to learn how to fix myself. How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item, including what was in my mind when I bought it.

There are many arguments which can be made for buying "American" or not. But this does not seem to be the forum for such discussions. I am here for receiving and giving help---God knows we don't have enough of either.

By the way, my splitter has a Briggs Stratton engine on it---does that count for anything. Also, I just read all the posts that Engineer has on this website, and, it appears that he has an opinion on just about everything---maybe he knows everything.

Sorry, guys, I won't do this again, but I wanted you all to know how thankful I am for your advice.

 

[mga]

hell, man, who cares what brand your log splitter is? i've read posts here that some of the best of them break down. and, do you really care what others may think about where you bought it from?

aside from that, the last cylinder i took apart had the "piston" held on with just the nut. if those threads aren't that bad, you can easily have them turned again. if they are bad, then have the shop turn it down to the next size and get a nut to fit. as long as it holds the piston in place.

ok, the nut had an O ring that went on before it and the piston had two cast iron rings. i'm not sure, or i didn't follow your post right, on how yours is made. if you have O rings, slightly grease them before trying to fit it back into the cylinder. they should be a tight fit, so be patient.

as for buying something all american made these days it's almost impossible.

 

[turnkey4099]

Thanks, Patrick62 and others.

I hate myself for doing this, but, you know, I posted to this site because I had a problem with my splitter that, for several reasons, I wanted to learn how to fix myself. How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item, including what was in my mind when I bought it.

There are many arguments which can be made for buying "American" or not. But this does not seem to be the forum for such discussions. I am here for receiving and giving help---God knows we don't have enough of either.

By the way, my splitter has a Briggs Stratton engine on it---does that count for anything. Also, I just read all the posts that Engineer has on this website, and, it appears that he has an opinion on just about everything---maybe he knows everything.

Sorry, guys, I won't do this again, but I wanted you all to know how thankful I am for your advice.

Don't worry about it. As in any site there are those "snobs" who think only _their_ brand of anything is any good. Their other opinions are equally worthless IMO.

HF has varying quality merchandise, some poor, some good but I don't think any of it is 'worthless'. I have bought a lot of stuff, mostly cheap tools, through them and only lost out on one and for the price it was no loss. \

As to your question about Briggs. They have home owner models that aren't very good IMO but the commercial ones (which your's almost certainly is) is a good engine. I, personally, am partial to Honda, have 3, but my Briggs commercial (I/C) engine has been through 2 rototillers and is currently still plugging away on my splitter after 10 years.

Again, anyone knocking Briggs is just a 'brand snob'.

Harry K

 

[grandpatractor]

seals

as far as seals go there should be as follows
1 the piston which is held on by the nut that stripped off. most have 2 seals shaped like a v or a v with an O-ring in it they should face away from each other. there might be an o-ring where the shaft slides thru the piston too.
2 the end plug that you screwed out will have on the outer radius an o-ring and a backup ring (a flat ring same size as the o-ring) the back up ring will go on the air side of o-ring. then on the inside of the plug there should be another seal, maybe three. could be an o-ring and 2 v shaped seals they should all go in the same way you take them out. the shaft seal on the outside of the plug is usually pressed in (just use a large washer or a socket and drive it in with a hammer.)

 

[stumpguy]

i try to buy quality eqipment, but this story defies that logic.

when i built my splitter about 15 years ago, the only part i skimped on was the engine. back then i didn't have much extra money. anyway, Northern had 5hp tecumseh engines on sale for $129. i figured it would last a couple years and by then i'd be more financialy stable to buy a honda or a Briggs IC.

well, now that i am much older and more financialy secure, that cheap a$$ tecumseh engine is still purring away after splitting a few hundred cords of wood. i almost wish it would die so i could upgrade to a Honda 8hp and a 16 gpm pump.

yes, you get what you pay for, but sometimes you get lucky too.

 

[EngineerDude]

...I wanted to learn how to fix myself.

Understood, and admirable. I share this attitude on most things I purchase.

How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item...

If you feel "berated", you've misinterpreted my message. Reread my posts. I made statements about HF, their quality and their business model, about what one's expectations (yours included) should be when purchasing from there, and about what I consider to be the far more dangerous dynamic of American jobs moving overseas due to operations such as HF. Nowhere in either post did I berate you for buying from them, and in fact I admitted I'd purchased from them as well, in the past.

There are many arguments which can be made for buying "American" or not. But this does not seem to be the forum for such discussions.

First of all, my arguments were not about buying American, they were about buying Chinese, and by extension, about buying "junk" (the term I used originally) from anywhere, most notably from places where the presence of low-cost, low-quality manufacturing has (fed by corporate greed and by the buying practices of U.S. customers) led to the closure of U.S. factories and the loss of American jobs. As to your statement that this is not an appropriate forum for such a message, I disagree.

I am here for receiving and giving help---God knows we don't have enough of either.

Agreed. As I had no useful technical input, I chose to pursue another aspect of the question.

Also, I just read all the posts that Engineer has on this website, and, it appears that he has an opinion on just about everything---maybe he knows everything.

Oh, give me a break! I neither have an opinion on "just about everything", nor do I know everything, nor do I behave as if I do, nor with very few exceptions do I make kneejerk statements.

Bottom line, I don't begrudge you help and support from this site or from anywhere else. In fact, I'm glad the members here have been able to help. But these forums are no place for having thin skin, and while you may not appreciate the fact that I used your situation as a vehicle to deliver an alternate message, I'm just going to ask you to look past it and move on.

 

[EngineerDude]

Don't worry about it. As in any site there are those "snobs" who think only _their_ brand of anything is any good. Their other opinions are equally worthless IMO.

Interesting response.

 

[EngineerDude]

as for buying something all american made these days it's almost impossible.

Yeah, man. Pretty scary too, when in far too many cases the available alternatives include low-cost, low-quality "junk" products marketed to look American.

The really wild part is that in the "good old days", lots of this stuff was made in the U.S.A., by American workers. Now, many of the guys who once proudly worked for the companies that manufactured this stuff are laid off, and their companies' executives, who made the decision to close the plants and move them overseas, are sipping pina coladas in their beach-front homes, enjoying multi-million dollar bonuses for their "excellent" management.

By the way, one more time, this is not about buying American (e.g. my saw was made in Europe, yours probably was too), but about not buying "junk", which feeds the sucking noise made as American jobs rush elsewhere.)

 

[turnkey4099]

The 'buy american' train left the station way back. It started in the 60s when quality of foreign autos was head and shoulders above american. Also better understanding of what people really wanted in cars. Turned out they didn't really want land yachts that were 20 ft long with only 5 or 6 feet alloted to the passengers. The Edsel was a perfect example. It supposedly started as an answer to the smaller foriegn cars and ballooned into a detroit monstrosity. I was in the market back then and made one quick walk through and joined the parade giving the horse laugh to it.

Then other foriegn products began inroads.

Culminated in economics making it cheaper to move manufacturing and jobs off shore.

I don't see any recovery. We are in a global community and them's the facts like it or not. I don't like it.

Harry K

 

[CylinderService]

Sorry I haven’t been on for a few days, and missing the opportunity to throw in my 2 cents..
I’ve enjoyed reading about cylinder repair from you guys - having made a living doing it for 35 years. And there is a lot of good information and advice here. Listen to Grandpa for the voice of experience.
Piston nuts strip off the end of the rod because of pull force of course. So I’m not much of a fan of cutting it down to the next smaller size. And welding on the nut makes it difficult to make future repairs, and is often not as strong as the original threads. If the rod is worth saving (a large part of our business is making new rods), we would prefer building up the damaged rod threads with TIG weld, and recutting the threads (on a lathe). Hiring someone else to do this is probably worth more than the cylinder though.
If any of you need new seals, just send your old ones to us and we can match them up with new ones. It doesn’t matter who made the cylinder. (We will need your credit card number for this - it’s not exactly like “new lamps for old”!)
As for buying American, everything Prince Hydraulics makes is 100% American. I’ve been to their plants and seen them doing it. So you don’t have to settle for a cheap cylinder from India, etc. And having seen the insides of lots of cylinders, I can tell you Prince makes a lot better quality cylinder.

Don the Hydraulics Guy

 

[richoj]

Just when I thought I was getting on top of things, someone said that a possible cause of the nut coming off (and stripping) could be that a relief valve malfunctioned and pressure built up to where it blew the nut off the piston-----is this possible---and, if so, where do I look for the valve and check it ?

I had heard that the filter could have a check valve in it, but its on the return (low pressure) side. My filter was leaking, but I tightened it and the leak stopped.

 

[CylinderService]

richoj,
If your relief valve had stuck it could have blown off the piston, but very unlikely. A stuck relief will almost always blow a hose, or split the pump. The cylinder is rarely the weak point. Even so, relief valves rarely stick. Much more likely that the threads were cut too loose, so they were weak, and using the cylinder to pull a stuck log off the wedge pulled the nut off the rod end. I wouldn't worry about the relief, other than to check the maximum setting with a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the valve. I don't like to see them set higher than 2500 PSI. You'll find the relief valve on the inlet side of your directional valve.
Your filter does have a very low pressure bypass valve to keep a clogged filter from blowing up, but that isn't an issue here. And your filter is in the right place too. Inlet filters are hard on pumps.
So I think the problem was the cylinder itself, and not the result of something else being wrong. Fix or replace the cylinder, and go back to splitting wood.

Just an opinion from an old guy with oily hands.

Don

 

[Frank Boyer]

Rebuilding the cylinder

Just when I thought I was getting on top of things, someone said that a possible cause of the nut coming off (and stripping) could be that a relief valve malfunctioned and pressure built up to where it blew the nut off the piston-----is this possible---and, if so, where do I look for the valve and check it ?

I had heard that the filter could have a check valve in it, but its on the return (low pressure) side. My filter was leaking, but I tightened it and the leak stopped.

I had problems with the cylinder rod retaining nuts coming off of my back hoe when I first got it. The solution was to use red locktite, nylon lock nuts and get the nut tight enough. My hoe uses 4" and 4 1/2" diameter cylinders with 1 1/2" nuts and they torque to 1500 foot pounds. That is a 200 pound person hanging from a 7 1/2 foot long cheater bar, or a 1" impact gun that I used for the tires on my Peterbuilt. The piston on a log spliter is being pushed into the rod when a log slpitter is loaded. On back hoes the piston takes a full load in both directions.

 

[grandpatractor]

richoj,
If your relief valve had stuck it could have blown off the piston, but very unlikely. A stuck relief will almost always blow a hose, or split the pump. The cylinder is rarely the weak point. Even so, relief valves rarely stick. Much more likely that the threads were cut too loose, so they were weak, and using the cylinder to pull a stuck log off the wedge pulled the nut off the rod end. I wouldn't worry about the relief, other than to check the maximum setting with a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the valve. I don't like to see them set higher than 2500 PSI. You'll find the relief valve on the inlet side of your directional valve.
Your filter does have a very low pressure bypass valve to keep a clogged filter from blowing up, but that isn't an issue here. And your filter is in the right place too. Inlet filters are hard on pumps.
So I think the problem was the cylinder itself, and not the result of something else being wrong. Fix or replace the cylinder, and go back to splitting wood.

Just an opinion from an old guy with oily hands.

Don

I'll second that.

 

[richoj]

Status Report-------I bought a new nut---24 mm, 1.5 fine thread and had the piston threads trued up.

My thinking is to tighten the nut as much as I can and to drill the shaft in back of the nut and put in a "roll pin" so the nut cannot back off again and use red locktite.

Does any of this make sense?

Really amazed at the help you guys provide.

 

[Buckeye]

If you are set on this method, I would cross-drill through the nut and the rod. I would also use a solid pin instead of a roll pin. If space permits, you could even use a 1/4" or 5/16" bolt and lock nut.