jammed log splitter

[grandpatractor]

If you are set on this method, I would cross-drill through the nut and the rod. I would also use a solid pin instead of a roll pin. If space permits, you could even use a 1/4" or 5/16" bolt and lock nut.

Good Idea!

 

[CylinderService]

Richoj,

Not to get into a technical argument here, but...
If your original nut just backed almost all the way off before it let go, putting a new nut on the original, trued-up threads may be strong enough. Adding a cross pin will keep the nut from unscrewing, but won’t add much if any strength. (Otherwise nuts would be unnecessary and pistons could be held on by crosspins.) The loctite will dependably keep the nut from unscrewing if the metal is cleaned well first, so the crosspin isn’t necessary, and crossdrilling your rod stud weakens it greatly, and makes it likely that the threads will gall when the nut is removed later. It also introduces the possibility of a loose pin tearing up the inside of your cylinder someday. Because of this, we almost never use pins or setscrews to retain pistons or nuts inside cylinders.
If however the original nut stripped off the stud, just cleaning up the threads so a new nut will screw on will leave the combination much weaker than it originally was, and likely to happen all over again. That’s why I recommended adding metal (weld) to the rod threads before putting on a new nut.
But it’s your cylinder, and your wallet, so its not our decision. And we don’t have to live with the consequences. You’ve really stimulated a great discussion, and for that I thank you.

Don the Hydraulics Guy

 

[richoj]

Ok---didn't think this would get that technical, but here goes------the nut did "blow" off the piston end, and I'm not sure how to judge the wear on the piston threads. However, there are enough untouched threads ahead of where the nut was originally (hopefully, these were not undercut at the outset, but since the splitter worked for two years, I have to think they were ok).

My thinking about the rollpin is that if I eliminate the washer and lock washer and use a rollpin to hold the nut from backing off, I can tighten the nut onto these threads. Since the shaft is two inches in diameter and I hope to use a 3/16 rollpin,I don't see how that can weaken the shaft appreciablly. I seem to want to trust the rollpin more than just locktite.

My reluctance to having it welded is that I can buy an entire new cylinder assembly for about the same as welding and threading. Also, I plan to be rea careful not to lte the splitter dislodge any "stuck" logs since this is where you folks say the greatest back pressure is.

I still have an open mind and would like to hear if I'm really off base. Thanks.

 

[richoj]

OOPS, sorry---shaft is one inch in diameter

 

[tawilson]

Can you double nut it?

 

[mga]

Ok---didn't think this would get that technical, but here goes------the nut did "blow" off the piston end, and I'm not sure how to judge the wear on the piston threads. However, there are enough untouched threads ahead of where the nut was originally (hopefully, these were not undercut at the outset, but since the splitter worked for two years, I have to think they were ok).

My thinking about the rollpin is that if I eliminate the washer and lock washer and use a rollpin to hold the nut from backing off, I can tighten the nut onto these threads. Since the shaft is two inches in diameter and I hope to use a 3/16 rollpin,I don't see how that can weaken the shaft appreciablly. I seem to want to trust the rollpin more than just locktite.

My reluctance to having it welded is that I can buy an entire new cylinder assembly for about the same as welding and threading. Also, I plan to be rea careful not to lte the splitter dislodge any "stuck" logs since this is where you folks say the greatest back pressure is.

I still have an open mind and would like to hear if I'm really off base. Thanks.

so, what you're saying is the nut apparently backed off several turns, then during some use of the splitter, the piston forced it the rest of the way off. i wasn't sure what you meant by "blown off".

i have to side with cylinder services and suggest NOT using any pins. if you have enough good threads on the rod end, why not just clean it up, put the nut back on and use loc-tite?? once dried, that nut isn't going anywhere and your problem stemmed from the nut backing off, allowing play on the piston end...forcing the nut off the remaining threads.

 

[richoj]

OK---"blown off" means that the threads on both the nut and shaft were partially stripped---then the nut apparently was forced off.

Looks like the vote is to clean up the threads, use locktite and maybe double nut the shaft---I can only do that by NOT using the lock washer---is that ok ? Last, what is so bad about using a pin of some kind ?---pin coming loose ?---weakening the shaft ?

What about a pin in BACK of the nut (hole only thru the shaft,but not the nut)---like they do with propellers on outboard motors ?

Not trying to split hairs, this is just a subject I know nothing about. Thanks again.

 

[bigbadbob]

What about a "lock nut" the ones that can't come off. One face of the nut is made so it can't come undone. I am not sure what they are called but see them lots where you don't want a nut to come off. Then you could use both washers and loc-tite.

 

[mga]

OK---"blown off" means that the threads on both the nut and shaft were partially stripped---then the nut apparently was forced off.

Looks like the vote is to clean up the threads, use locktite and maybe double nut the shaft---I can only do that by NOT using the lock washer---is that ok ? Last, what is so bad about using a pin of some kind ?---pin coming loose ?---weakening the shaft ?

What about a pin in BACK of the nut (hole only thru the shaft,but not the nut)---like they do with propellers on outboard motors ?

Not trying to split hairs, this is just a subject I know nothing about. Thanks again.

having that nut back off was kind of unique. it most likely wasn't torqued tight enough since day one. the pressure applied to force it off of the rod end was during the return stroke, since this is when the piston is being forced against it. it just kept slapping against it over the years and eventually pushed it off. during the push stroke, the piston is forced against the rod, not the nut.

use the lock washer (if still good) and use loc-tite on the nut. torque it tight and that should last you until the cylinder ever needs to be replaced. no need to over kill. almost all cylinders are designed that way.

as Cylinder Services stated, having a foreign object in the cylinder is asking for more trouble....probably why manufacturers don't do that.

 

[CylinderService]

I think you should trust the loctite. And I think you're trusting the rolpin more than is justified. Virtually none of the construction & industrial cylinders we see have lockwashers (or rolpins). Clean the threads with alchohol, or some kind of non-residue cleaner, and use red loctite (we use 277, but any of the 260's are OK). LET IT CURE OVERNIGHT. Make sure the nut is really tight! 1" studs should be 400 - 500 ft-lb. Loctite failures are almost always caused by loose parts, dirty surfaces, or not letting it cure. If you do it right, you'll have to heat the nut with a torch to get it off. Using a second nut is your decision. Just be sure its got good threads to grip so it doesn't come off and float around your cylinder.

And if you get any more "help" with this project, you may never get it done!

Don

 

[richoj]

Yea, I got an "A" in school in Procrastination. Only reason I mentioned the lock washer was that there was one there when I took it apart.

You're right----no more posts from me 'till I get it running !

Really appreciate all the help.

 

[GlennG]

Exceptions to every rule. But that said, the old adages "You get what you pay for", "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!", "No free lunch", "Can't have your cake and eat it too", etc. sprang up for good reasons, and have merit.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that there's not situations where buying from Harbor Freight makese sense, but if you do so, set your expectations accordingly. I've seen the problems firsthand during time spent inside my company's factories in China, and I deal constantly with increased quality problems relating to cost-driven outsourced components and labor. Ex. Compressor casting that when sourced here were trouble free now generate frequent problems with micro-porosity. I could state 100 more examples, but won't.

Clearly the Harbor Freight business model caters to those customers who value low cost over quality, and as stated above, in general you can't have you cake and eat it too.

By the way, I wasn't going to get into this, but my real reason for no longer shopping often at Harbor Freight relates not to this quality thing, but rather to American jobs moving overseas. Corporate greed, facilitated by disgusting federal legislation has created a situation where for the first time in American history, our kids will on average enjoy a lower standard of living than this generation currently enjoys. Everything we buy today that's made in China that we would have bought yesterday from a U.S. manufacturer provides a job for a Chinese guy and takes it away from the guy who lives down the street from you. That's a problem for me. By the way, I also shop at the local hardware store whenver possible instead of at Home Depot, etc., for similar reasons.

Sorry for the soapbox thing. I had no intention to hijack this thread but this hit a hot button.

Eng.Dude, I agree with you on all points. I`d also like to add that I refuse to shop at Wall-Mart .

Well said, my hat is off to you.

GlennG

 

[VelvetFoot]

.

A long time since the last post I know, but I just fixed my leaking HF 30 ton splitter. I only put about 7 cords through it, and it leaked fairly bad from where the ram went into the cylinder. Upon taking it apart, I found that the nut was only marginally hand tight, a 2" o-ring was missing (!) and a 1.5" o-ring was chopped up, probably because the nut was loose. I got both o-rings at the local Ace Hardware store, tightened up the nut with a 24" adjustable wrench (from Harbor Freight, where else ). Started right up (love the Robin 9 hp engine), and didn't leak at all. The love is back!

 

[olyman]

A long time since the last post I know, but I just fixed my leaking HF 30 ton splitter. I only put about 7 cords through it, and it leaked fairly bad from where the ram went into the cylinder. Upon taking it apart, I found that the nut was only marginally hand tight, a 2" o-ring was missing (!) and a 1.5" o-ring was chopped up, probably because the nut was loose. I got both o-rings at the local Ace Hardware store, tightened up the nut with a 24" adjustable wrench (from Harbor Freight, where else ). Started right up (love the Robin 9 hp engine), and didn't leak at all. The love is back!

did u put some blue loctite on the threads??? it only stops the nut from coming loose--and dont need a torch to get it off--

 

[VelvetFoot]

No, I did not use loctite. The way I look at it, this was a manufacturing deficiency and that big lock washer precluded the need for loctite. Plus, I really leaned on that 24" long adjustable wrench.

 

[76kramwen]

Exceptions to every rule. But that said, the old adages "You get what you pay for", "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!", "No free lunch", "Can't have your cake and eat it too", etc. sprang up for good reasons, and have merit.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that there's not situations where buying from Harbor Freight makese sense, but if you do so, set your expectations accordingly. I've seen the problems firsthand during time spent inside my company's factories in China, and I deal constantly with increased quality problems relating to cost-driven outsourced components and labor. Ex. Compressor casting that when sourced here were trouble free now generate frequent problems with micro-porosity. I could state 100 more examples, but won't.

Clearly the Harbor Freight business model caters to those customers who value low cost over quality, and as stated above, in general you can't have you cake and eat it too.

By the way, I wasn't going to get into this, but my real reason for no longer shopping often at Harbor Freight relates not to this quality thing, but rather to American jobs moving overseas. Corporate greed, facilitated by disgusting federal legislation has created a situation where for the first time in American history, our kids will on average enjoy a lower standard of living than this generation currently enjoys. Everything we buy today that's made in China that we would have bought yesterday from a U.S. manufacturer provides a job for a Chinese guy and takes it away from the guy who lives down the street from you. That's a problem for me. By the way, I also shop at the local hardware store whenver possible instead of at Home Depot, etc., for similar reasons.

Sorry for the soapbox thing. I had no intention to hijack this thread but this hit a hot button.

Nailed it!!

 

[tilenick]

16 year old thread