Jonsered Chainsaws

[Cantdog]

Robin,
Getting back to the timeline of Jonsereds/Electrolux...was there officially a 910 points model for a short run before the 910E came out?
And after the 910E morphed into the 920E/EV & 930E/EV...how were those two models different than the 910E...were there some cost cutting corners made on those two models?

As I mentioned before, I was given a 910E to run for a day when I was still loggin'. Good saw and lots of plastic I had never seen before...lol! Now look at the plastic, fantastic saws they make....

Kevin

I don't believe there was a points model of the 910....I can't say that with all certainty but I have not seen any IPLS for a points model......that said I have never seen a points model 70E nor any IPLS for those either, yet I have heard rumors that there was such a saw.
The 910 had some design weakness in the seperate front and rear handle AV which is why the 8XX and 9XX saw have the rear and front handles connected....also there was a PTO side case half change from the 910 in the 920/30. The 910 was also the only one of the 8XX and 9XX saw to have a decomp.....

 

[Real1shepherd]

I don't believe there was a points model of the 910....I can't say that with all certainty but I have not seen any IPLS for a points model......that said I have never seen a points model 70E nor any IPLS for those either, yet I have heard rumors that there was such a saw.
The 910 had some design weakness in the seperate front and rear handle AV which is why the 8XX and 9XX saw have the rear and front handles connected....also there was a PTO side case half change from the 910 in the 920/30. The 910 was also the only one of the 8XX and 9XX saw to have a decomp.....

OK so if you had to buy/own/live with one, which of the three would you have; the 910, the 920 or the 930?

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

I suppose the 930 Super as it's the newest most advanced and powerful version. But I like the 910..PB had one I used some...really liked the way it ran/cut/handled , so I'm gonna build 2 910s...one from mostly shiny NOS parts the other from good "experienced" parts..got two NOS P&C kits to use up!!

 

[XPLRN]

This past weekend I finally caught up with the guy that had a big but no model designation Jonsereds for sale. My initial thought was, "Heck, it's got a good sized bar sooo it must have some 'nads to pull chain on that bar!!???"

I had inquired here on post # 3228 and a few posts after that regarding I.D.-ing what model it might be. Things are pretty slim currently(having not won the lotto yet) but he had indicated that he would entertain a trade/yrade offer of ammo. Well I'm always up for a good "yrade"!!

Well ammo of the calibers he was interested in I did have, vs. green paper, sooo I threw a box of miscellaneous ammo together and arranged to meet the guy after work on Friday afternoon/May 2nd.

He was a cool guy(despite his inability to proof-read his CL listing) and we BS'ed about firearms and other saws he had for awhile before getting to the Jonsereds situation. I was kinda hoping that he wouldn't be able to get it to start/run as he had said it was more than a couple of months since it had ran and I could see it was in need of some TLC . Well after some choking and pulling he was able to get the Jonsereds to lit off and run at higher RPM but it wouldn't hold an idle. Sooo that got my attention, the fact that it actually did run, and we ended up working out a "yrade" deal.

I've had the good fortune of talking with a fellow AS'er that is into the Jonsereds 80/90 series saws. That has helped me immensely with learning what I'm up against with this saw; a big thanks to Kevin/Real1shepherd!! I finally started tearing into it last night and had fun cleaning a lot of gunk/residue off and removing some parts. By posting up this info I'm hoping to get some help/input/direction on getting some of the parts needed to bring this saw up to a better operating status.

First off - The Muffler!!
This muffler has had a ruff life and I'd like to replace it with one that hasn't had the battering this one has seen!! I've seen ones that have outlets on the upper right side towards the chain and then the configuration like this one with exhaust gasses exiting right out the front. Is there any preference, as in does one work/flow better than the other??

The next thing I noticed is the anti-vibe system is in dire need of attention. The biggest/loosest point is the one marked with the green box here. It REALLY needs some attention, the one on the left side of that casting isn't sooo bad.

The throttle handle assembly is pretty loose on the two conical anti-vibe points where it mounts to the main saw body. I would like to replace those two pieces but have been told that they are pretty much unobtainium in NOS and kind of a crap shoot in "used". Has anyone tried to put the appropriate sized washers on top of these bushings to actually "shim" the bushings back into the conical casting holes?? I've attempted to illustrate my thoughts here;

Anyways that's the start of this 90 series adventure!! I'll be picking up a carb kit, fuel line and a filter and getting that installed. Speaking of fuel line........what is up with this fuel line setup as I've never seen a ribbed line before!?? Also where I marked the green box on the picture below, what is that fuel line attaching to??? Is there a junction block where line then goes into the tank or ??? I'm not going to be getting around to pulling the carb any time soon so figured I'd put it out to those that have the knowledge about these sort of things!!

 

[Cantdog]

That looks like a Stihl fuel line!!!.....the normal one is black and smooth....it goes to a white plastic junction block...this also holds the tank one way air vent and another hose that goes from the vent valve to the clutch area. The fuel line in the tank attaches to this block also.....if it is original it will have what looks like crimped collars on the block and the other end at the fuel filter. Do not try to uncrimp these......take a screwdriver and pry them back down the hose from the block and filter until they are clear of the hose barbs......when fitting a new hose put these on the line then slip the line onto the barbs.....with pliers or a screwdriver work them back on over the barbs to the hose ends....these hold the fuel line in place.

These AV rubbers are common to quite a few of the older Jonsereds so I have never had to try and shim them....but I see no reason that it wouldn't work to help tighten up the rear AVs...
The upper top handle AV mounts can be substituted with 49SP, 52/52E and 80/801 rubbers.....the 49/52 mounts might not be quite as stiff as the 90 but will work fine and be much better than a broken rubber.

That muffler is what we commonly call a West Coast spark arresting muffler.....just have to keep an eye on ebay for an 80, 801 or 90 muffler....most usually the top right exit is the easiest to come by...quieter but not quite as performance oriented.

Basically that looks like a pretty solid 90...in good overall shape.....with a little TLC should make you a good saw....for many years yet!!! Congrats!!!!

 

[Real1shepherd]

Myron....I took a bunch of pics(to illustrate what Robin is talking about), of my bone stock 90. For whatever reason, I used to be able to send myself(in email) pics I took. Tonight, nothing happens when I send to myself. Somehow I wound up in 'the cloud' and they of course, want $$. So give me some time to post these pics somehow....

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

OK..I think I have this sorted...my WiFi got turned off.
On the carb pics, you should be able to see the stock fuel line spring that Robin was talking about. Kinda tricky to work back without damaging your fuel line. You should also see the white vent box he's talking about and maybe if you look closely, it routes over the choke shaft and then behind the carb to terminate near the flywheel. In my 80 there's a hole to push it into...on the 90 there's not. Then you'll see my finger pointed on the AV that is unobtainium new...at least my experience they are all used. And...you'll wind up with the cup, the plate, probably the two mounting bolts....when all you really need is the rubber AV itself.

As a point of reference, the OE vent line was yellow I believe. From the fuel filter to the vent box OE was black. No reason to keep OE lines of any kind....replace them all with the appropriate size. I see people selling used OE lines for $$...really??? The OE vent line was 'formed" to that hump shape as it went over the choke shaft. You should be able to manipulate good quality fuel line to do the same thing. I get all my fuel/vent line from a big motorcycle/dirt bike shop...their assortment is amazing.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

OK...was having some other issues finding some more pics. In this post is a pic of my louvered 80 without a spark arrestor...it's missing a louver segment. The fragment of a screen in your one pic, shows me that a spark arrestor must have been available as part of the louvered sandwich. Then you'll see my finger on a pic of the other AV mounts you were talking about on the handle. I've seen these sold new, so like Robin says, they're must be some crossover from other models and probably even Husky.

What you may not be able to make out are the small pinch clamps used on the vent and gas line. Yours may be replaced with something else. The OE's are smooth with no ears...just a jagged tooth looking break where the two side come together...nothing sticks out. I have only seen these style clamps on a chainsaw. In my parts, I have a vent box separate from the saw with at least a fuel line attached with these clamps. I don't know if it serves any purpose to post them if you can't get them? All mine have come from donor saws.

I can take individual pics of anything in the way of parts...so just ask. You might want me to snap a pic of the vent box & gasket...yours seems to be missing? The gasket is rubberized, not paper.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

Sorry...forgot a muffler pic of the 90 that's different than yours....

And agree with Robin...it's a fine saw that just requires some parts....especially if you get good compression. The paint on my working 90 is by far the best of anything I have.....but I'll proudly wear it off in the yrs to come. That's probably skip-tooth .404 chisel chain in your bar pic...bet it's been round file converted though.

Kevin

 

[XPLRN]

Well after reading Robin's and Kevin's responses with the additional knowledge on fuel line identifying I decided to head back out to the shop and review what I had. I don't know about the ribbed fuel line going from the white nylon junction block to the carb potentially being a Stihl part as I just don't have that much background knowledge!?? What I do know is that line appears to have two different diameters end to end........and there is no clamp/wire holding it in place. Here are some pictures to illustrate;

Closer up;

The individual ends;

Then I had to check out the fuel line going into the fuel tank. WOW...........I don't know how long OEM fuel line is supposed to last but per the info you(Robin/Kevin) have provided me it appears this saw still has the OEM line on it!!

Since the fuel line and filter going into the tank still appears to be in good shape, not to mention being factory crimped, I'm going to leave it alone. What I am questioning is how to replace the black ribbed dual diameter fuel line in the future!?? Right now I'm going to leave it alone and maybe put a small wire tie on each end to secure it better.

Thanks, Kevin, for the pictures showing the two different style mufflers. I zoomed in on them and screen captured them for easier visual comparison. I definitely want to replace my battered one with the 'West Coast Spark Arrestor'/ 'louvered opening towards the front style ' since that is what it came with and as Robin mentioned it probably flows better;

Tomorrow I'm going to tear apart the broken anti-vibe junction and see what that's all about. It would be great to be able to figure out some kind of a replacement by adapting off the shelf(think McMaster Carr) items.

Thanks again for all the informative input as I continue to dig into this saw and work towards getting it in better condition!!

 

[Cantdog]

Yes those are the crimped ends in the tank I was talking about.....they slide not crimp/uncrimp...work excellent once you figure out how they are meant to work. I have never seen anything but black rubber OEM Jonsereds fuel or vent lines.....as Kevin said the OEM vent line is preformed to go up and over the choke shaft then down under the carb to the clutch side....if you replace this, route it the same, as this creates a "trap" so any fuel that makes it by the vent drains back to the tank...this line is also supposed to have a sintered bronze filter in the clutch end of the hose which is enlarged to accept it on OEM.
The OEM lines are of excellent quality....many of the saws I get still have the original lines and are still in good shape......the OEM main line from the plastic block to the carb is also preformed in that the end that goes to the block is enlarged....if you get a regular line to fit over the barb on the block it will be loose on the carb end.....Jonsereds used at least two different hose clamps one was a simple coil spring type the other a spring collar with an interlocking joint.....these both work good and like the crimped ones in the tank simply slide up the hose and over the barb to hold the line in place. I see no reason that the Stihl line wouldn't work fine if it is solid and in good shape and small wire ties should do a good job keeping it tight. Good luck on a finding a WC muffler in much better shape than yours......I have been looking for quite a long time for the SS EX louver for one that is intact.....like yours they all seem to have been hacked/modded to allow more EX flow....one of the hazards of these large older Jonsereds is that homeowners generally didn't buy these.......loggers or tree services did... so there are very few of these saws in pristine condition as they got worked hard for many years and the mufflers, being made of relatively thin sheet metal and located right next to where the action is always looked like yours in a short time.......LOL I have one on and old 80 that has been repaired/patched both front and rear.....ugly son of a gun .....The 621 and 70E had a spark arresting muffler that exhausted at the top and had a thicker, seperate protective cover to help keep it from being mangled...this helped some.

 

[Real1shepherd]

I'll see if I can dig up OE fuel set-ups for illustration purposes. Yeah, you can leave the factory fuel line intact with the crimped ends, but be sure you force it to double back on itself looking for any cracks or holes. They have far exceeded any useful life they were designed for after all this time. You shouldn't need different ends on the fuel line...you can always take a heat gun and make it malleable enough to fit. If you get disgusted/discouraged at this part, you're probably going to get a fuel leak to the carb. On my 80, someone gave up on fitting a fuel line to the carb and filed down the the graduated ferrule. So, it has a non-OE pinch clamp there....also, eventually I found those Tillotson 90 degree inlet fittings for their carbs. It could be that the formed replacement vent/fuel lines were colored and why I've seen more than just black. I've seen the same colors in different saws, in the same places...so there is some J'red methodology going on there. Because they were formed hoses, I can't believe that they were pulled off from another manufacturer's line.

That louver could be made pretty easily I think with the appropriate hardwood wood jig hollowed out. Then beat a piece of sheet metal the same thickness as the OE into the jig. Make your cuts with a Dremel before you beat the shape. I'll play around with that this summer and if successful, I'll make a few for members. Hardest part will be making the wood jig....

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

The OEM louvers were fairly thick SS....I've thought of just what you describe to make one.....but I know SS just doesn't bend in more than one direction that well so never tried it.....may take a shot at it....have some SS scrap left over from restaurant kitchen work....

 

[Real1shepherd]

@Myron....here are what I believe to be some OE fuel set-ups. Like Robin said, they were black line except where the actual vent line runs from the box to the clutch side. I have only seen one formed in black line, the rest were formed in what became yellow with age, but suspect it was more clear when new. Like I said, perhaps this was an often replaced line and the J'red replacement formed line wasn't black. Notice the assortment of clamps;pinch clamps and crimped clamps. I have that tool that crimps those... left over from auto/truck CV boot repairs.

I also found a couple extra AV mounts I could give ya...the ones that go into the cups and are unobtainium new. They are de-laminated where the rubber meets the metal. I suspect if we could figure out what adhesive they use in AV mounts to bond rubber to metal, they would be fine, because the rubber is whole otherwise. I'm sure it's some kinda of industrial adhesive and fuel/oil resistant. I was fixing a washing machine once and a tech gave me a almost used up tube of cement to bond a rubber drain grommet to the steel tub. It was some industrial stuff that would work, I'm sure....nothing more hostile than underwater, chlorine, detergent, oils & dirt.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

By dang in my bag of parts I found what Robin was talking about. At the end of a black vent line are a bundle of bronze needle bearings. I can try to take a close up pic of that if anyone is interested. That's not what I was taught by definition as being 'sintered bearings'; which are pressed bronze particles to form a bushing that would for example, go around a rotating shaft. Usually the sintered bearing is impregnated with oil or has an oil wick to keep it supplied with oil. Here's a youtube video to explain it better.

In the vent tube J'red application, I think the bundle of bronze needle bearing are there to form a 'trap'...to catch any oil residue still left in the gas vapor and keep that from making a mess in your saw? I think it's design overkill as none of my saws have that 'trap' and there's no oily mess from the end of the vent tube. Maybe the needles are there to slow down the venting process and make the vapor pass though the needles at a slower rate than just an opening. On the 90 the vent hose end just stops...on the 80 there's a hole it tucks into. I might put that 'trap' on the end of the 90 vent just for good measure...but why?? But then, I'm still getting over the low tech of the 'wiggle pin'.

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

By dang in my bag of parts I found what Robin was talking about. At the end of a black vent line are a bundle of bronze needle bearings. I can try to take a close up pic of that if anyone is interested. That's not what I was taught by definition as being 'sintered bearings'; which are pressed bronze particles to form a bushing that would for example, go around a rotating shaft. Usually the sintered bearing is impregnated with oil or has an oil wick to keep it supplied with oil. Here's a youtube video to explain it better.

In the vent tube J'red application, I think the bundle of bronze needle bearing are there to form a 'trap'...to catch any oil residue still left in the gas vapor and keep that from making a mess in your saw? I think it's design overkill as none of my saws have that 'trap' and there's no oily mess from the end of the vent tube. Maybe the needles are there to slow down the venting process and make the vapor pass though the needles at a slower rate than just an opening. On the 90 the vent hose end just stops...on the 80 there's a hole it tucks into. I might put that 'trap' on the end of the 90 vent just for good measure...but why?? But then, I'm still getting over the low tech of the 'wiggle pin'.

Kevin

Well as in most things, there are varying degrees of build.....in this case sintering. If you use fine particles of bronze, under great pressure you get a bushing grade material like you describe, with tiny cavities between some of the particles that will retain oil...generally referred to as "Oilite Bearings". Use larger particals and less pressure and you end up with a very porous material mainly used as fuel filters.....the original Jonsereds fuel filter that would have come on any Jonsereds from the 70's into the early 80's would have had a felt outer filter and an inner sintered bronze filter......you could buy just the outer felt filter and simply rinse out the inner bronze filter when doing fuel system maintenance...didn't replace the whole filter like you would now.

I have seen two types of filter in the end of the vent line...the one that looks like the ends of needle bearings which when pulled out resembles twisted wire and the more common crushed particle type......Jonsereds made no distinction between the two, giving them all the same part # 504 35 72 00. Just for kicks here are he numbers for the original fuel filters. Bronze inner filter 504 36 33 00 and the outer felt filter 504 36 34 00 I like these type of filters but they've been NLA for quite a long time.....don't even see these parts show up on ebay in parts lots....which is kinda odd for a "consumable" ...

The reason for the filters in the end of the vent line was not to filter or impede fuel from leaving but to crudely filter out the air being drawn back into the tank as fuel was used....to keep the one way check valve clean and working properly.....the air volume is so low I doubt they really need this set up as I have seen many with nothing in the hose....on the other hand I have seen a few clogged and rusted check valves......but anyway...that's the way they came.....


Chevy use this same type of sintered filter as the final filter mounted in the fuel inlet on most all of their carbs from the 70s and 80s.

 

[taplinhill]

I don't believe there was a points model of the 910....I can't say that with all certainty but I have not seen any IPLS for a points model......that said I have never seen a points model 70E nor any IPLS for those either, yet I have heard rumors that there was such a saw.
The 910 had some design weakness in the seperate front and rear handle AV which is why the 8XX and 9XX saw have the rear and front handles connected....also there was a PTO side case half change from the 910 in the 920/30. The 910 was also the only one of the 8XX and 9XX saw to have a decomp.....

I think I figured out the 70/70E thing. I have some brochures that call and label the saw a 70, but it has the electronic ignition. So, I think there was some confussion when people have seen that there was a 70 and a 70E and assumed there was a points model, when I don't think there ever was. I thought the same thing, thinking along the 52/52E line.

 

[taplinhill]

Hey Mark, the step down studs do exist. They made them for the 930/920. This is the only set I have come across, and that was just by chance in a parts saw I pick up somewhere along the way.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Well as in most things, there are varying degrees of build.....in this case sintering. If you use fine particles of bronze, under great pressure you get a bushing grade material like you describe, with tiny cavities between some of the particles that will retain oil...generally referred to as "Oilite Bearings". Use larger particals and less pressure and you end up with a very porous material mainly used as fuel filters.....the original Jonsereds fuel filter that would have come on any Jonsereds from the 70's into the early 80's would have had a felt outer filter and an inner sintered bronze filter......you could buy just the outer felt filter and simply rinse out the inner bronze filter when doing fuel system maintenance...didn't replace the whole filter like you would now.

I have seen two types of filter in the end of the vent line...the one that looks like the ends of needle bearings which when pulled out resembles twisted wire and the more common crushed particle type......Jonsereds made no distinction between the two, giving them all the same part # 504 35 72 00. Just for kicks here are he numbers for the original fuel filters. Bronze inner filter 504 36 33 00 and the outer felt filter 504 36 34 00 I like these type of filters but they've been NLA for quite a long time.....don't even see these parts show up on ebay in parts lots....which is kinda odd for a "consumable" ...

The reason for the filters in the end of the vent line was not to filter or impede fuel from leaving but to crudely filter out the air being drawn back into the tank as fuel was used....to keep the one way check valve clean and working properly.....the air volume is so low I doubt they really need this set up as I have seen many with nothing in the hose....on the other hand I have seen a few clogged and rusted check valves......but anyway...that's the way they came.....


Chevy use this same type of sintered filter as the final filter mounted in the fuel inlet on most all of their carbs from the 70s and 80s.

Interesting...I always thought they were just called bronze screens, as I didn't know they fell under any sintering category. So it's all about air getting back in and possibly contaminating the check valve? It's crude all right...like the wiggle pin. It's one of the cons of the 80/90 that if you leave one out in the sun on a hot day, you'll pay hell getting it restarted. Not much of a system to start with...leave it in the shade though and you're fine no matter how hot it is.

I actually found both types of screens then, in my parts bag....I thought the regular bronze screen was from another saw and in the parts bag by mistake. I like the bronze screen concept and used them for yrs in auto fuel applications. Never had to do anything with the bronze J'red fuel filter screen other than blow it off with compressed air or replace the felt cover. Now everyone just replaces the screen with those generic white ones sold everywhere.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

A caution; I bought those new fuel caps for the 80/90 with the plastic dingle berries. They seem to fit fine and work. BUT...after they sat for awhile with gas in the saw, they swelled and I could hardly get them off. So...I stole the gaskets and put them on the NOS caps I took off. I suspect they are Asian knock-offs and not worth your money. Caps are useless like that if they feel like they're cross-threaded and a brute to get off. I was going to flag the seller and tell ya who it was, but I can't find him in my ebay history...

Kevin