Jonsered Chainsaws

[WoodDean]

That gasket I cut from a piece of paper with a utility knife. So it's not original equipment and the paper is much thinner than original.

 

[Cantdog]

Ya...you'd think so!

I'm all for folks doing this right with NOS parts, because I personally don't care about provenance...but this is an insane asking price. As far as I know the 910, 920 & 930 haven't got the collector's clout yet that say the 111S does. I have heard of people paying $700+ for a 111S. I imagine if someone did a NOS parts 111S, it might fetch a grand on ebay....maybe. My guess is this guy is testing the waters....I bet he finds it frigid. He's also got some extra parts(probably from this build) listed on the bay.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Jonsereds-910-920-930-chainsaw-parts-rare-old-logging-power-milling-saw

I think the handle changed after the 910 and I'm not sure all parts will interchange with all the models like the guy implies in the auction...Robin?

Kevin

I'm no expert on these saws so don't know exact what will or will not interchange. That is a nice saw but even more of a mongrel for someone besides the builder/owner to keep running.....and the 910 P&C is the least powerful setup in the series...so that price is way over the top IMHO.........I prefer the 910 as it is truly a Jonsereds...not an Elux hybrid ..........

 

[Cantdog]

That gasket I cut from a piece of paper with a utility knife. So it's not original equipment and the paper is much thinner than original.

Thinner that a stock 90 gasket?? Those are only 0.007" +-......with a crush factor of 0.001-0.002". These old Jred gaskets were so thin that I never checked squish on any of them or thought removing the gasket worthwhile to gain only 0.005" and with the domed piston they all had plenty of compression anyway. I don't think you need to worry about anything with your homemade gasket. You'll be fine......looks good....only thing I can add is....you should pickup a pair of leather hole punch pliers....extremely handy for doing inside corners and bolt/impulse holes when making homemade gaskets.

 

[Cantdog]

Stumbled into this the other day. I suppose some of ya know these guys. In the first part of the vid(before they go to the woods), are fantastic factoids about the 900 series. I wish I had time to diddle around like that!

Anyway, if you haven't seen this and are interested in the 900 series;

Handle AV's on the bottom change a lot after the 910....even went to a Partner type, integral wrap handle system. When I get my 910 back together....I'll take some pics of that 910 AV system with a West Coast full wrap handle. There's a steel post that's anchored and pokes through the wrap handle so that it limits how much travel can be in the wrap handle. I'm thinkin' that a J'red engineer's kid came up with that while playing with Legos. Nobody in this vid said anything about a rev limiter in the module, just the Tilly governor that has an easy, well known defeat trick. Personally, probably because I'm used to working in the woods, I don't think these saws should be allowed to wrap anymore than 12 grand....OE parts are too rare and the aftermarket doesn't always supply pistons & jugs. Have some reservations about GOLF et al.

Most people curse those Tilly governors but I can't ever think of one failure in all the loggin' saws I had with 'em. Like everything else in a carb, they have to stay clean.

Kevin

That is a great vid Kevin....hadn't seen that one...I do know Bob...he is a great guy. Runs a saw shop in Shokan NY....Husky/Jred dealer and old Jonsereds nut......also an AS site sponsor....we send parts back and forth once in a while......he hasn't been able to catch up to me in 49SPs though...I keep a couple builds ready under the bench just in case I need to extend my lead...LOLOL!!!!!

 

[Real1shepherd]

I'm no expert on these saws so don't know exact what will or will not interchange. That is a nice saw but even more of a mongrel for someone besides the builder/owner to keep running.....and the 910 P&C is the least powerful setup in the series...so that price is way over the top IMHO.........I prefer the 910 as it is truly a Jonsereds...not an Elux hybrid ..........

Well in the video, you can see the handles morphing from model to model. It's possible that the lower handle mounts are the same from the 920 to the 930. I think he states somewhere in the vid that the innards don't transfer from model to model, because they went from open port to closed and then back to open with a twist;machined the side windows down in the 930 for more power. They also said that unless you're cutting doughnuts at a GTG for time, the difference in the woods is minimal. We're only talkin' a cc or two., although the port design changes from model to model.

I'm with you though;I like the purely J'red 910 over the Partner influence later one....not that the Partner influence was a bad thing(better wraps for sure), but the saw was morphing away from a J'red design by that time and influenced by Electrolux/Partner. They seem to favor the 930 in the vid, but mainly because of a better handle system(still can't be jerked out of a set-back) and some crossover with the air filter, with the ignition parts crossing via Husky.

I think Saw Troll said in here once that they moved J'red production over to the Partner assembly line in the late 70's....which means the 910 was made on the Partner assembly line. Doesn't matter, there was no Partner influence yet for that model, as it's still purely J'red, warts and all!

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

That gasket I cut from a piece of paper with a utility knife. So it's not original equipment and the paper is much thinner than original.

If anything Dean, like Robin says, your paper gasket is likely to be thicker than the OE.....so you would lose slightly, some compression(making the chamber slightly bigger). Maybe someone put a thicker gasket in there at one time...used what they had on hand. Anything is possible when buying a used saw or saw parts.

Love me those old dome pistons right up to and including the hemispherical designs. Dodge loves them too, obviously....lol

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

Well in the video, you can see the handles morphing from model to model. It's possible that the lower handle mounts are the same from the 920 to the 930. I think he states somewhere in the vid that the innards don't transfer from model to model, because they went from open port to closed and then back to open with a twist;machined the side windows down in the 930 for more power. They also said that unless you're cutting doughnuts at a GTG for time, the difference in the woods is minimal. We're only talkin' a cc or two., although the port design changes from model to model.

I'm with you though;I like the purely J'red 910 over the Partner influence later one....not that the Partner influence was a bad thing(better wraps for sure), but the saw was morphing away from a J'red design by that time and influenced by Electrolux/Partner. They seem to favor the 930 in the vid, but mainly because of a better handle system(still can't be jerked out of a set-back) and some crossover with the air filter, with the ignition parts crossing via Husky.

I think Saw Troll said in here once that they moved J'red production over to the Partner assembly line in the late 70's....which means the 910 was made on the Partner assembly line. Doesn't matter, there was no Partner influence yet for that model, as it's still purely J'red, warts and all!

Kevin

Well..none of the 9XX series were open port.....they were all 87 cc......the difference was that the 910 had the earlier 621, 66E/70E, 80 and 90 style P&C......closed port and non windowed high dome pistons and transfers opening all the way down through the cases.......the later 920/930 advanced that to what we traditionally call the Husqvarna style closed port cyls with windowed pistons which simply make more power/rpm with 930 Super being the apex of design in that series. The 910 also has a completely different PTO case half than the 920/930 though the flywheel side is the same.....a lot going on with this series. PB brought all these saws down for me to try a few yrs ago.............of his big saws I really liked the 910 best.......now... I have a very nice example........and I may find a 930 Super in the future to add to the collection but not holding my breath..........really have little use in real life for large saws.....though I certainly enjoy having them.......generally around here, a 30" butt is considered very large and most pro fallers use a 60-70cc saw with an 18-20'" bar.......anything larger is just uneeded extra weight/length to lug around all day......

 

[Cantdog]

Since we've seen a run on these high priced old saws here's some more eye candy for you 90s guys...LOL!!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Jon...523090386?pt=US_Chainsaws&hash=item19f74b4fd2

 

[Cantdog]

If anything Dean, like Robin says, your paper gasket is likely to be thicker than the OE.....so you would lose slightly, some compression(making the chamber slightly bigger). Maybe someone put a thicker gasket in there at one time...used what they had on hand. Anything is possible when buying a used saw or saw parts.

Love me those old dome pistons right up to and including the hemispherical designs. Dodge loves them too, obviously....lol

Kevin

Yep.......Dodge/Chrysler........original home of the Hemi.........426 the only production motor to be outlawed by congress for street production.............HeHeHe!!!!

 

[Real1shepherd]

Well..none of the 9XX series were open port.....they were all 87 cc......the difference was that the 910 had the earlier 621, 66E/70E, 80 and 90 style P&C......closed port and non windowed high dome pistons and transfers opening all the way down through the cases.......the later 920/930 advanced that to what we traditionally call the Husqvarna style closed port cyls with windowed pistons which simply make more power/rpm with 930 Super being the apex of design in that series. The 910 also has a completely different PTO case half than the 920/930 though the flywheel side is the same.....a lot going on with this series. PB brought all these saws down for me to try a few yrs ago.............of his big saws I really liked the 910 best.......now... I have a very nice example........and I may find a 930 Super in the future to add to the collection but not holding my breath..........really have little use in real life for large saws.....though I certainly enjoy having them.......generally around here, a 30" butt is considered very large and most pro fallers use a 60-70cc saw with an 18-20'" bar.......anything larger is just uneeded extra weight/length to lug around all day......

Well, if you look at the three jugs lined up in the vid, the 910 by def is an open port(looks exactly like mine), the 920 is closed port and the 930 is just like the 910 except the window sides of the jug are milled down....he points out this feature. They went to a window piston with the 920 and he doesn't say on the 930.

Kevin

 

[Real1shepherd]

Since we've seen a run on these high priced old saws here's some more eye candy for you 90s guys...LOL!!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Jon...523090386?pt=US_Chainsaws&hash=item19f74b4fd2

Same guy...didn't sell the NOS 910 or the separate parts listing.

As far as his NOS 90 presently listed...again, I don't think the market is there for that model quite yet. Plenty of people remember the saw fondly, but not warm & cozy enough at that price...lol

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

Well, if you look at the three jugs lined up in the vid, the 910 by def is an open port(looks exactly like mine), the 920 is closed port and the 930 is just like the 910 except the window sides of the jug are milled down....he points out this feature. They went to a window piston with the 920 and he doesn't say on the 930.

Kevin

No..... the 910 is not an open port....sorry...perhaps the reason you think so is that you can't see the upper transfers in the vid as the piston is in the bore blocking the veiw. I have two NOS 910 PC sets and they are the same closed port design as all the early closed port Jonsereds with a nonwindowed piston. Will get some pics when I get to the shop.......

 

[Cantdog]

Ok... got some pics....sorry a couple are blurry but you can still see the transfer ports...these are all closed port cyls......

First is the transfers on a 52/52E
Second a 621
Third (blurry) 80
Fourth (also blurry) 90
Fifth the 111S
Sixth is the 910E cyl
These are all NOS cylinders with non-windowed pistons....notice the 111S is the only one that the lower transfers don't go directly to the crankcase. But also notice the arrangement of the upper and lower transfers are all very similar......

 

[Cantdog]

Now here are three open port cyls......one Jonsereds 49Sp....a later Jonsered 625 and lastly a non XP 268 Husqvarna cyl. Made by Gilardoni...(a very nice piece of work). The reason I am showing this is it is the only open port cyl I had handy that did not use a round non-windowed piston but used a "slabside" type piston. Actually the 625 used this style piston too come to think of it. The 49sp uses round non-windowed pistons like the closed port cyls I showed in the last post, though it is open port....Pics will be in this order.......note the is no "bridge" between the upper transfers and the lower tranfers...just a continuous slot.....hence the "open port" Hopefully this will help clarify the differences between open and closed ports.........

 

[Real1shepherd]

Now here are three open port cyls......one Jonsereds 49Sp....a later Jonsered 625 and lastly a non XP 268 Husqvarna cyl. Made by Gilardoni...(a very nice piece of work). The reason I am showing this is it is the only open port cyl I had handy that did not use a round non-windowed piston but used a "slabside" type piston. Actually the 625 used this style piston too come to think of it. The 49sp uses round non-windowed pistons like the closed port cyls I showed in the last post, though it is open port....Pics will be in this order.......note the is no "bridge" between the upper transfers and the lower tranfers...just a continuous slot.....hence the "open port" Hopefully this will help clarify the differences between open and closed ports.........View attachment 381347 View attachment 381348 View attachment 381349 View attachment 381350

OK gotcha, but your pic on the top left(post before this one), looks like their video pic of the 930 jug, which would make it open port? Except I don't know the piston design of the 930.....

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

OK gotcha, but your pic on the top left(post before this one), looks like their video pic of the 930 jug, which would make it open port? Except I don't know the piston design of the 930.....

Kevin

Not sure exactly which one you are referencing.....the pics come up in a vertical row on my 'puter.....

If you come back and id the pic from the list I can comment more accurately on each. The pics are in the same order as the list.

All the first set of pics are closed port cyls......how the lower transfers terminate to the case case be very different but that doesn't determine whether the cyl is condidered open or closed......what makes that determination is the presence (or not) of a cyl wall "bridge" (meaning the cyl wall is unbroken between the uppers and lowers) or not........an open port cyl. simply has an open 3 sided slot in the in the cyl wall all the way to the top edge of the transfer...on a closed port cyl the fuel charge is directed out around/behind the "bridge" from the lower transfers up to the smaller upper transfers. Forcing the charge through this passage builds pressure and increases the velocity in the upper transfers, better purging spent EX gas, thus allowing a more pure charge fuel in the combustion chamber for the next stroke. This is basically why closed port cyl make more torque and HP than open port motors..


The 930 uses a more modern windowed piston with it's closed port cyl design.

 

[WoodDean]

Same guy...didn't sell the NOS 910 or the separate parts listing.

As far as his NOS 90 presently listed...again, I don't think the market is there for that model quite yet. Plenty of people remember the saw fondly, but not warm & cozy enough at that price...lol

Kevin

Too bad, would make mine worth a bit more.

 

[Real1shepherd]

Not sure exactly which one you are referencing.....the pics come up in a vertical row on my 'puter.....

If you come back and id the pic from the list I can comment more accurately on each. The pics are in the same order as the list.

All the first set of pics are closed port cyls......how the lower transfers terminate to the case case be very different but that doesn't determine whether the cyl is condidered open or closed......what makes that determination is the presence (or not) of a cyl wall "bridge" (meaning the cyl wall is unbroken between the uppers and lowers) or not........an open port cyl. simply has an open 3 sided slot in the in the cyl wall all the way to the top edge of the transfer...on a closed port cyl the fuel charge is directed out around/behind the "bridge" from the lower transfers up to the smaller upper transfers. Forcing the charge through this passage builds pressure and increases the velocity in the upper transfers, better purging spent EX gas, thus allowing a more pure charge fuel in the combustion chamber for the next stroke. This is basically why closed port cyl make more torque and HP than open port motors..


The 930 uses a more modern windowed piston with it's closed port cyl design.

I can't find a suitable pic of the 930 jug to put beside this one, but to me, it looks roughly the same as the above pic. It would help if I could find a CAD on youtube or wherever of a chainsaw open ported cylinder going through its cycle versus a close ported cylinder. Or...just the two in my hands to visualize the differences along with a 'window' piston...eventually, I'll get it....lol.

Kevin

 

[Cantdog]

I can't find a suitable pic of the 930 jug to put beside this one, but to me, it looks roughly the same as the above pic. It would help if I could find a CAD on youtube or wherever of a chainsaw open ported cylinder going through its cycle versus a close ported cylinder. Or...just the two in my hands to visualize the differences along with a 'window' piston...eventually, I'll get it....lol.

Kevin

Ok Kev......I think you aren't seeing the difference because in the vid you can't see the upper transfers in the 930 cyl because the piston is up in the bore blocking your view of them....go to 9:36 min on the vid.....he is showing you the 920 and 930 cyls side by side.....he's showing the differences in the lower transfers........the cyls are identical except for the lower transfers......notice the piston in the bore on the 930 but not on the 920....that's why it looks to be open port to you......I assure you it isn't......there is another upper transfer you can't see.....looks just like the 920.....

 

[7hpjim]

2077/475 top end
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JONSERED-2077-POULAN-PRO-475-CHAINSAW-CYLINDER-PISTON-/33140338820