NSMaple1
Addicted to ArboristSite
IMO, wood will dry better if the end of the stack is facing prevailing winds.
Judging seasoned standing/fallen wood?
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Fireaxman
ArboristSite Guru
Looks like you are from Maryland. You may not be familiar with the specific condition I am referring to. When the Southern species get diseased, and because of our warm climate and humidity there is a lot of disease, Loblolly and Slash pine exude inordinate amounts of sap. When the tree finally dies that inordinate amount of sap is trapped in what we call the "Fatwood" or "Heartwood" and is known as "Southern Fat Pine". In the late 1800's there was a substantial industry harvesting this "Fatwood" and distilling it for turpentine. I do burn dried, seasoned pine in my house. I just do not burn the "Fatwood" inside except as fire starter. When you burn the "Fatwood" the turpines in it ignite very quickly and it burns very brightly, but it exudes a thick, odorous black smoke that coalesces on the cool walls of the chimney, and even on the back wall of the fire place. Yes, moisture causes creosote. But poorly burned pine resin also causes creosote, just like running your car on too rich a fuel mixture will gum up the rings on your pistons. Seasoned, healthy conifer? I agree. Burn it inside. Fat Pine, "Pine Knots" ? Save it for the bonfire outside and just use a sliver or two inside for kindling.
Fireaxman
ArboristSite Guru
Well Spoken! An Excellent Warning! Since I am a slow learner I have several near misses to my credit.
I never had a moisture tester. I cut a lot of dead, majority standing or propped up off the ground, and take the drier part straight into the small front porch to burn usually most gets burned within a week or 2 in cold weather. When cutting usually some of the bottom pieces or most laying on the ground have quite a bit of moisture and I save them for another season or split them very small so they dry fast if I don't want to deal with them separate later. Usually the more bark that is gone, means drier wood and, or it will finish drying faster. While stacked in my porch, if there is damp pieces I open the door from the house to the porch when I have the house well heated and I have a good fire going, sometimes I use a fan also. Usually a couple 4 or so hour sessions of the dry heat sucks a majority of outside moisture and any that feel heavy with moisture are propped up inside near the stove overnight or until they feel reasonably dry (but not on the stove where they can catch fire!) When testing questionable wood I use the ancient moisture testing method of banging the wood together hoping to here a crack vs. a thud. Since I don't like to stack much wood in my yard by the house it is considerable less handling and moving the wood before burning bringing it straight from the woods. So I loose a little more then a few btu's on some pieces of wood but I save a lot of handling. Almost always have wood seasoned a year ahead and more, and use it when conditions are not favorable for downing and processing, or preferably sell it. When I did sell a considerable amount of wood I rarely had complaints bringing dead wood I processed the same day also. I usually burn near or little less then a pick up load of pine a year. Cold chimney with pine or wet or green wood = creosote. If not hot get the chimney hot with dry hard woods before putting the pine in, let it burn a while before closing the dampner . Most pine I used is good heat and I like the smell. Long cold nights I like oak and comparable wood but its a waste on a 45 degree morning that is going to warm up to 60+ degrees.
I stand corrected. I had to google it, very interesting. This site taught me I can burn pine and I know that look when people hear I do so. The myth is very prevalent around me, even my dad who burned wood for 40+ years was shocked. This site has now taught me that if I move to Louisiana I have to be careful which pine to burn...
I had people tell me birch bark causes creosote too. The old wives tales are very prevalent even in folks who grew up in the old days.
I 've heard that to but never myself used it here in my home enough to notice and since I heard that I use the birch similar to pine if it has quite of bit of bark clinging to it. In fact most wood I prefer to burn without much bark clinging to it. I do collect quite a bit of the oak and maple bark, air dry it good and use it for kindling with smaller wood and noodles. Porch has a cement floor where I stack it so before going in the house a couple taps on the cement, most the loose bark and debris falls off, which I take the best of it in a card board box for kindling.
Fireaxman,
Out of curiosity have you ever had termites get into your wood stacks? I don't go past a two year plan for fear of termites. My dad once had wood stacked for three years. Come winter time it had been hollowed out from within.
Out of curiosity have you ever had termites get into your wood stacks? I don't go past a two year plan for fear of termites. My dad once had wood stacked for three years. Come winter time it had been hollowed out from within.
066blaster
Addicted to ArboristSite
The tops might be ok to burn right away but, if its a bigger tree the trunk is often really wet. Downed stuff is sometimes ok if its off the ground. Get ahead as soon as you can .
I'll chime in again, not to argue, rather to document my example. I'm quite sure different wood, different stack and store technique, different climate will play a role.
This example is a standing dead Red Oak that I personally tagged as dead for harvest over 5 years ago. I cut it down last week:
Im still splitting it so I stuck my moisture meter in my pocket. I picked one of the rounds from about 30' up the trunk:
Practically speaking, the bark is gone. I split a couple edge pieces off (I can't lift the round to a block for proper splitting with my x27). And took a reading at 38%, very typical of the trunk of a standing dead Red Oak on this hilltop in northern Chester county.
FWIW, you can see the moisture in the splendid straight grain will make great fire next year.
This example is a standing dead Red Oak that I personally tagged as dead for harvest over 5 years ago. I cut it down last week:
Im still splitting it so I stuck my moisture meter in my pocket. I picked one of the rounds from about 30' up the trunk:
Practically speaking, the bark is gone. I split a couple edge pieces off (I can't lift the round to a block for proper splitting with my x27). And took a reading at 38%, very typical of the trunk of a standing dead Red Oak on this hilltop in northern Chester county.
FWIW, you can see the moisture in the splendid straight grain will make great fire next year.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Here in eastern PA you'll get a lot of ash killed by ash yellows. The crown will be gone, but it may still be alive and green. In the summer you can tell if it's still alive as it will be pushing out suckers all along the trunk, but it's hard to see those in the winter. It's good to check and keep and eye on them before they lose their leaves. Be damned careful if you drop any of those - don't touch it without a helmet and look up constantly.
I hate to say it but in time you can tell if it's ready to burn or not. You can see by the color of the wood, and often you can feel the moisture if you hold the cut ends to your cheek. Stuff that's on the ground is likely not dry enough, but I find actually dead but wet wood will dry out faster than green wood. If you buck it and split it and the splits sound like bowling pins when you throw them in a pile, it's probably good. If you get dry checks/cracks in the end of the splits after stacking for a few days I'd burn it.
I have several standing stone-dead ashes I marked, and they are my emergency reserve. The bottom few feet may be too wet but I know I can buck & split them and toss them in the stove tomorrow. I have a large one that fell in late fall, and it's propped up on the root ball and at the other end, but off the ground along the rest - I'll be taking that soon, and I'm sure it will be burn-now wood. Three small dead ashes fell last week right near the house by a path - I went out with the hatchet and they sound solid and hard, so I will probably cut them this weekend and see how they are.
You may also run into lots of red oak blowdowns around here. Oak can be ready to burn if it's very dead and has been off the ground, but it dries slower if it's wet. Also lots of sassafras - I don't know what's wrong with them here but they don't get very big before they die. Lots of smallish standing dead ones. It's light and won't burn all night but it goes great in a secondary burn stove until the volatile oils cook out. I also burn pine, but I don't have much.
The last test is in the stove - if it's hissing and spitting moisture out the ends as it heats then it wasn't dry enough. I'll stack it by the stove and bake it out if it really was dead, but not if it's still green.
I hate to say it but in time you can tell if it's ready to burn or not. You can see by the color of the wood, and often you can feel the moisture if you hold the cut ends to your cheek. Stuff that's on the ground is likely not dry enough, but I find actually dead but wet wood will dry out faster than green wood. If you buck it and split it and the splits sound like bowling pins when you throw them in a pile, it's probably good. If you get dry checks/cracks in the end of the splits after stacking for a few days I'd burn it.
I have several standing stone-dead ashes I marked, and they are my emergency reserve. The bottom few feet may be too wet but I know I can buck & split them and toss them in the stove tomorrow. I have a large one that fell in late fall, and it's propped up on the root ball and at the other end, but off the ground along the rest - I'll be taking that soon, and I'm sure it will be burn-now wood. Three small dead ashes fell last week right near the house by a path - I went out with the hatchet and they sound solid and hard, so I will probably cut them this weekend and see how they are.
You may also run into lots of red oak blowdowns around here. Oak can be ready to burn if it's very dead and has been off the ground, but it dries slower if it's wet. Also lots of sassafras - I don't know what's wrong with them here but they don't get very big before they die. Lots of smallish standing dead ones. It's light and won't burn all night but it goes great in a secondary burn stove until the volatile oils cook out. I also burn pine, but I don't have much.
The last test is in the stove - if it's hissing and spitting moisture out the ends as it heats then it wasn't dry enough. I'll stack it by the stove and bake it out if it really was dead, but not if it's still green.
The top wood from these two standing dead Red Oaks, up to about 6", were stove ready, started and burned HOT. Up to about 12" burned OK, but not like the smaller stuff. From the bottom up was still very pink inside and if you put a piece on the fire you could see the steam coming out of the ends. All of the split wood I'll wait for next year, Joe.
EMT, you’re getting a ton of good advice here. The main point, as you know already, is to get ahead on your wood for next year and beyond and you’ll be golden.
So much of this stuff depends on experience. I started cutting and heating with wood 45 yrs ago, knowing nothing and gaining much experience the hard way. Now it’s all second nature. I’ve never owned or used a moisture meter or a thermometer on the stove or flue (though if I were starting out green I might use them now), as there are simple, non-tech ways to judge those matters.
Experience will be your best teacher, and 8 or 10 yrs from now I guarantee you’ll be the one to pass on good tips to the newbies.
So much of this stuff depends on experience. I started cutting and heating with wood 45 yrs ago, knowing nothing and gaining much experience the hard way. Now it’s all second nature. I’ve never owned or used a moisture meter or a thermometer on the stove or flue (though if I were starting out green I might use them now), as there are simple, non-tech ways to judge those matters.
Experience will be your best teacher, and 8 or 10 yrs from now I guarantee you’ll be the one to pass on good tips to the newbies.
I actually lost my moisture meter, have been meaning to pick up another one.
Might sound weird but when splitting I'll smell the wood and put it to my lips to feel if it's moist or not. Oak especially is VERY pungent when green.
Also gained experience the hard way when I started 5-6 years ago. That included a call to 911 and my own fire company's response for what turned out to be a VERY badly clogged pipe. I was burning wood that was buried in ice back during that first season....WICKED winter! Looking back I should have bit the bullet and bought kerosene and electric heaters instead of being a fathead. Again, lesson learned! Now I sweep my own chimney once a month and climb out on the roof and brush out the cap 2 times a season.
Thanks
-Emt1581
Not all oak smells that bad . Usually Black oak and Pin oak in this area. Black oak is often called Red oak, different specie, same family and is marketed as Red oak. Location, age, condition of tree plays into the degree of odor. Trees with hollows collect water that deteiriate and lead to stronger pungent odor and I believe the water and soil the tree feeds on plays into it also. Some area's I cut pin and black oak, most have little odor, other area's most of them have strong odor. White oak usually smell clean,but I have had 1 here and there with hollows that collected water having smelly wood under the hollow. Seasoning and drying out split, 6 months to a year seems to eliminate most odor problems.
Nothing wrong with cleaning the chimney and cap often like that, but for comparison I usually do that 1 time a year. I have 6" stainless double wall pipe coming out of a stove insert in a fireplace, going up a brick chimney that cracked on me about 20 years ago from squirting water in a chimney fire in my earlier learning days. About 2' of the stainless rises above the old brick chimney. In a year there is a very thin coat of creosote may be 1/4" little more or less on the 2' above the brick and a little more then that on the cap. That is all I clean mostly just use a hand brush. Stays smooth and clean below that, using my burning methods. Been years since I run a brush the entire length because it is practically nothing down lower where the pipe stays hot. As a matter of fact I missed cleaning it for this season and I have little concern about build up because hasn't been enough in the last 15 20 years to be a problem. It will be interesting to see what 2 years burning looks like compared to 1 but I don't expect it will be much different. Using dry hard woods when the chimney is cooled down, once hot, less then perfect dry hard wood or dry pine isn't a problem on the stainless steel pipe with a good draft. A little moisture coming out of a log now and then for a few minutes doesn't concern me when every thing is hot. I am not sure if it were the brick it would stay that clean. When I was still using the brick chimney I was using pine for kindling and building up fires with it and I had at least a few or more chimney fires and I was cleaning the chimney at least once a year or so.
doesn't matter..it will burn wet,, but your losing MANY btu's when you burn it,, drying it out to burn right...
"Ash wet or ash dry a king shall warm his slippers bye". I grew up hearing a version of that.
Here is the poem:
The Firewood Poem
Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But ash wet or ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by.
The firewood poem was written by Celia Congreve, is believed to be first published in THE TIMES newspaper on March 2nd 1930. © by owner. provided at no charge for educational purposes
Here is the poem:
The Firewood Poem
Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold
Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown
Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But ash wet or ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by.
The firewood poem was written by Celia Congreve, is believed to be first published in THE TIMES newspaper on March 2nd 1930. © by owner. provided at no charge for educational purposes
Aspen is easy to judge by smell too. If it smells fruity it's wet, if it smells like wine it's dry.
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