Just how much quicker does full chisel dull in dirty wood?!

[Iffykid]

My thoughts are that chisel tooth chain is for the pro's that are in a huge hurry and don't want to mess around with dull chains on job where everybody is on the clock. They also get real pissy with the guy that can't keep his saw sharp.

Semi-chisel tolerates a great deal more dulling before it quits cutting. The only difference between them is that tiny bit of extra metal in the corner. When filed well, it makes a nice sharp tooth that penetrates the wood quicker than otherwise. Semi-chisel lacks that sharp point, which is curiously easy to bend down with the slightest trip into the dirt. Then it instantly becomes a ramp for the tooth to help deflect off the wood that needs to be cut.

Collateral reason for having chisel tooth: pro's frequently make boring cuts, which work better with chisel tooth. It also is a bit more inclined to kick-back, which is why you often can't get chisel tooth chain at the local HomeDepot, and almost never in non-safety chain.

If a pro is in a huge hurry, why would they use a chain that dulls easier which would slow production? I guess I do not follow the logic.

 

[BrettS]

If a pro is in a huge hurry, why would they use a chain that dulls easier which would slow production? I guess I do not follow the logic.

Indeed, the guy opened the pie hole before engaging brain, each pro would do it differently, cut differently, use different chain, technique etc to cut depending on their own preferences, they wouldn't all cut trees the same way and wouldn't listen to some guy's long winded ramblings on some forum post about how to cut his way.

 

[Sverre]

View attachment 998916

Stihl calls it a 2-in-1 file, but yes it is really multiple files in a jig - a round file for each way, and a double-sided flat file for the rakers. All nicely indexed off the tooth height. I do have one, and my chains are much better for it. I just don't like sharpening in the field. I also tend to cut little and often - a tankful of cutting probably gives me a week of firewood, it's already dry so no need to do a big carting and stacking job. I'd rather sharpen my chains in the comfort of the workshop, and just pop a fresh one on for each tank.

Looks like there are opinions both ways on the full vs semi chisel chain, so it sounds like it will be worth giving it a try. Most trees here have some termite work up the middle, that's just the way it is. I'd rather not get upset by it - like woodslasher says, "it's what I need the saw for"!

The file is great. Earlier I have used;
1) Single round/flat files with and without a template,
2) Electric filing station
3) The Stihl 2-1 file.
The latter is by far the most accurate with the most bite after filing and economic choice at that. I know that someone who files every day with round/flats gets good at filing at the end but I have never reached the level where I can beat the 2-in-1.
I used to bring all these chains with me every day, now I take a few, only for backup if I really should wreck one. Filing takes about no time. I get perfect result every time, and together with the little pegged vice you smack into a treestump for holding the saw, you even get a fair working positon. Two strokes with the file at every tooth every or every second tank of gas - depending on conditions.
Best thing is when you really destroy the corner of a tooth or five - against a rock or some other hard matter, you need to file down all teeth and riders to same height and angle to get a good cut and good straight pull through a log again (not having your sword angling off midway due to overfiling one side etc) the 2-in-1 really sets everything 100% again. I have usually had problems in those situations with single/flat files when consitherable filing needed to be done to a chain. Yes, I could get a fair result, but with the Two-in-one file it gets perfect every time.
As for the filing station, I dont have the same amount of individual control and always grind away more steel than necessary, taking away valuable life time off the chain. So yes, in my opinion and experience the 2-in-1 is a true gem. Accurate, economic and perfect, even when I`m really worn down. Even if I can get a chain razor sharp and true with a round/flat in my workshop - well rested with fresh coffee and perfect light - It`s when I'm in the woods, bent over the saw, shaking, wet and tired in need of a break - thats when the 2-in-1 really shines. I don`t have to perform perfect for a perect result. The flat/round is much more demanding when I`m on my last treads.

 

[ValleyForge]

2-1 files are the best thing since buttered bread…especially if you know how to hand file. There’s nothing worse than working on a log pile to make rounds and having to try to hand file outside while tired…

https://www.pferd.com/us-en/products/files/sharpening-files/chain-sharp/

 

[Squareground3691]

Freehand filing , you can customize ur chain to ur liking accordingly not really with 2-1jig , and there’s not a big learning curve to free hand filing and rakers are the key to a smooth cutting chain witch is overlooked by many.

 

[Iffykid]

there is also adjusting raker height depending on hardwood vs soft wood and for those in the northern climate frozen wood vs unfrozen, I have been using a Carlton File-O-Plate for about 40yrs. along with a flat and round file.

The stump vice works somewhat better than nothing, I have used a bench vice on a piece of 20"X 2X10 or preferably on the tail gate of truck or slipped into the hitch receiver with appropriate mount, even a kerf cut in the top of a stump holds the saw somewhat stable for hand filing.

 

[HansFranz]

In my experience, full chisel dulls a LOT quicker than semi-chisel if you get it into dirt.

I prefer full chisel for clean (and especially green) wood, but if I expect to get down in the dirt, I'll often go to one of my few loops of semi-chisel.

 

[rd35]

When I go to the woods to cut firewood I don't have time to burn daylight sharpening chains. So I always take several sharp chains with me. I prefer full chisel because I have found that, for me, they cut enough faster to be worth the extra effort required to keep them sharp while cutting. I avoid pulling dirt "into" the cut as that is where the dirt removes the sharp edge (point) of the cutter. I also avoid ground contact like the plague. I have found that I can cut skidded logs that are covered with mud/dirt by always (as much as possible) cutting the bark as the chain exits the cut instead of when it enters the cut. This throws the dirt away instead of using the dirt as a grinding compound to dull the cutter as it travels through the cut. By following this practice my full chisel chains stay sharp much MUCH longer and I get more wood cut in a day with less maintenance. I usually burn 3-4 tanks of gas before I need to swap chains (shag bark hickory and osage orange 1-2 tanks). When I get back to my shop I sharpen all the dull chains when its convenient (raining or at night).

 

[Hermio]

Hi all,

I run a Stihl MS362CM cutting dry redgum for my own firewood. I just don't cut enough to become good on the hand file - plus I hate doing it - so I've decided to start sharpening off the saw instead and just swap chains in the field.

At the moment all my chains are semi chisel, I understand that full chisel cuts faster but also dulls faster in dirt.

I'm happy to use a fresh chain every tank. Do you reckon I would get more cut with a tankful of fuel using full chisel - even if I hit a bit of termite dirt? Or will dirt dull the full chisel so much faster that I'd still be better off with semi?

My experience is that full chisel cuts so much faster than semi that I am ahead of the game even allowing for more frequent sharpenings. I use the Pferd 2-in one hand sharpening system (same product is available as Stihl for more money), and it takes about 5 minutes to do it in the field. I do hit dirt on the logs when I drag them out for cutting. It helps to cut on the clean side and cut under the dirt rather than through the dirt.

 

[pdqdl]

If a pro is in a huge hurry, why would they use a chain that dulls easier which would slow production? I guess I do not follow the logic.

Because they keep it out of the dirt better than most folks. The professional timber harvesters go beyond using chisel tooth. They even square-file their chisel tooth for that extra fast cut.

 

[sean donato]

Because they keep it out of the dirt better than most folks. The professional timber harvesters go beyond using chisel tooth. They square-file their chisel tooth for that extra fast cut.

That depends on the logger and circumstances.

 

[copen]

2-1 files are the best thing since buttered bread…especially if you know how to hand file. There’s nothing worse than working on a log pile to make rounds and having to try to hand file outside while tired…

https://www.pferd.com/us-en/products/files/sharpening-files/chain-sharp/

There ya go. Pferd makes'em for Stihl and for whatever reason they seem to be less expensive than the orange ones, at least on Amazon.

 

[Captain Bruce]

That is a great way of saying it!

THATS chain 101!

 

[user 122190]

The worst thing about full chisel is when you hit something rounding off the tip, then you can sharpen a third of the tooth to get it in shape. Steve

Actually then it becomes a semi chisel, sort of. Get the tip back over several sharpening.

 

[mountainlake]

When those chisel teeth get rounded over their not going to bite until they have the sharp point again. If it's just couple, no big deal, if a lot of teeth are rounder over you lose a lot of the tooth to get it to saw good. Steve

 

[mountainlake]

My experience is that full chisel cuts so much faster than semi that I am ahead of the game even allowing for more frequent sharpenings. I use the Pferd 2-in one hand sharpening system (same product is available as Stihl for more money), and it takes about 5 minutes to do it in the field. I do hit dirt on the logs when I drag them out for cutting. It helps to cut on the clean side and cut under the dirt rather than through the dirt.

There are vids on youtube comparing chain, the chisel beat the semi by around 2 or 3 seconds in 20 seconds cut, No where near twice as fast. Steve

 

[fields_mj]

When those chisel teeth get rounded over their not going to bite until they have the sharp point again. If it's just couple, no big deal, if a lot of teeth are rounder over you lose a lot of the tooth to get it to saw good. Steve

When the chisel gets rounded over, hand file it at about 10 degrees to removed the damage and get it sharp again. Over the course of the next 4 or 5 sharpening's, it won't get fully sharp to the point, but it will still cut. After the 4 or 5 sharpenings it will be back to the original 25 degrees with a nice sharp point. I've filed by hand for several years and I can do it well, but after trying the Timberline, I'll never go back. The only time I use a hand file now is to touch up a cutter that has been rocked, and I follow my procedure above for that.

I've never purchased the 2in1 file because I set my rakers at different heights depending on the saw. My 024 and 026 are at the stock height of .025", but I on my 036 saws I drop them down to .035" to .040". I use the 024 and 026 for limbing and bucking stuff that's under 6" to 8". The 036 saws are used to fell trees and buck everything else. I run 18" bars with .325 chain on all of them. My 036 saws run a 9 pin rim, and the saws have more than enough power in this configuration, but they do pull HARD into the wood. To me, a full chisel chain doesn't offer much advantage if the rakers are only .025" It's not as grabby so it's nice for limbing, but the whole idea is that it penetrates into the wood a lot easier than a safety chain or semi chisel. In order to realize the benefit, the rakers really need to be dropped at least a little bit so that you're putting the saved power to work.

I run full chisel chain on everything. Full chisel chain needs to be sharp to be appreciated. If hand filing, it's worth giving the cutters 2-3 strokes every time you fill the gas tank. I work by myself and time is important to me. The faster it gest done, the less it wears me out, and the safer I am. I generally sharpen after ever other tank of fuel. I generally cut shagbark hickory that I've skidded from the woods to the pasture so it's got some dirt in it. After a tank of fuel, I can tell a slight difference in performance. After 2 tanks, the difference is noticeable. Not to be disrespectful, but at that point it feels like its' cutting like a safety chain. I haul 2 cords of hickory logs at a time on my equipment trailer and that takes about 2 tanks of fuel to cut a load of logs to length. I buck them into firewood at the house where it takes 3 or 4 more tanks of fuel, but my work shop is only 60 ft away equipped with a work bench, vice, work lights and POWER .

When I used to do everything in the woods, I had the bed of my '93 F250 diesel set up with side rails so that I could stack an entire cord in the bed. I would normally cut and stack the bed full, and then cut an stack at least another cord in the woods so that it was ready for me to load on short notice. I had a mount bolted to my tailgate that would accept the base plate that my 8" bench vice is mounted to in my work shop. The base plate installs with 1/2-13 bolts so a scrench fits them just fine. I ground slots in the heads so that I could screw them most of the way in with a screw driver. Now that I use my equipment trailer, I've welded a couple of 2" receivers onto the tongue. My 13K winch mounts on one. The other one holds a bracket that I welded out of 2" square tube. It has a cheap 6" Harbor Freight vice bolted to the top. Works great for sharpening a saw in the woods if needed.

 

[HumBurner]

Keeping a sharp chain sharp is easy. Just freshen up the chain regularly and keep it out of the dirt and you'll have no problems.

If you're in clean wood with no dirt or rocks embedded in the bark/sapwood, with little rot (expressed silica, not bound), then sure.

Clean wood is rare around here.

 

[BrettS]

If you're in clean wood with no dirt or rocks embedded in the bark/sapwood, with little rot (expressed silica, not bound), then sure.

Clean wood is rare around here.

Here too, chop trees down, into the dirt/rocks. Had a freshly sharpened chain and was cutting into a log on the ground (paying attention to keep chain off the dirt), finished one cut and tried to make another and the chain wouldn't cut, found a sneaky rock had taken out the chain during the first cut.

 

[HumBurner]

Here too, chop trees down, into the dirt/rocks. Had a freshly sharpened chain and was cutting into a log on the ground (paying attention to keep chain off the dirt), finished one cut and tried to make another and the chain wouldn't cut, found a sneaky rock had taken out the chain during the first cut.

Sounds about right.

The worst for me is cutting downed but living tan oaks/madrones with heart rot. As they have grown along the ground for years or decades, the tree grows around the rocks and soil, eventually taking them into the bark. Other times, rocks and acorns (pesky squirrels and jays) will make their way in to the same types of tree stashing goodies in the cavity. Can't tell anything until they roll out of the fresh cut or, like you said, the chain doesn't make the following cut.