Kickback with a Stihl 201T

[KostasVolos]

I'm not sure if this is a really stupid practice or not ,but when I got
my first saw ( rear handle ) I intentionally made it to kickback
( standing out /offside of the kickback zone ) just in order to
experience the forces involved and possible consequences .
Done plenty of tests in various
situations ( even holding the saw
single handed ).

Thankfully ,the chain brake worked as intended .
Thing is I was pretty alarm and
aware of what to expect .
But if being careless or tired ,even the smallest saw can inflict serious injuries.

So ,two basic things I learned and practice religiously .
The first is always check where the bar tip/nose is at all times during a cut and the second is to
stay out of the kickback arc .
Never cut with the saw directly in
front or even worse never lean over the saw.
And one last thing :
Horizontal kickbacks are far more
difficult to "control" than vertical ones.And somewhat gets trickier to position yourself in a secure zone .

 

[Mike Kunte]

My first (and last) top handle saw was the 200T. I’m not too proud to admit I was severely injured when it kicked back on me. I was doing some work at ground level cutting small lateral branches from black cherry trees. I was using it with 2 hands, and when I made the mistake of getting a cut in the kickback zone, it only took a nanosecond for that bar to come back at me at hit me like a sledgehammer. i had been cutting for decades, but never with a top handle saw. My mistake was caused by fatigue…I know it…I admit it…my bust. This could have been a lot worse. My left hand was on the side handle, right hand on the top handle.. the chain brake never had a chance to work in that configuration. Nothing to stop the travel arc snapping back violently, except my body. I offer this story not to be shamed or denigrated, but to hopefully help add emphasis to the extreme caution needed and required to prevent kickback...from ALL saws. I left out the injury details, unless some want to know…stay safe!

Thanks for sharing!! Quite the scare you must have got there!!!

 

[Valpen]

My left hand was on the side handle, right hand on the top handle.. the chain brake never had a chance to work in that configuration. Nothing to stop the travel arc snapping back violently, except my body. I offer this story not to be shamed or denigrated, but to hopefully help add emphasis to the extreme caution needed and required to prevent kickback...from ALL saws. I left out the injury details, unless some want to know…stay safe!

As stated above, thx for sharing your learnings.

 

[pdqdl]

Long time lurker; first time poster. Go easy on me.

To make a long story short, I was looking for a maneuverable and quick saw mostly for limbing and cutting saplings and bushes as a complement to my Stihl 291, which I use for felling (some) and bucking (lots) firewood for my stove. After watching a fair amount of reviews, I bought a 201 TC-M after some back and forth between that and a 201 C-EM. My friend uses a 194 T extensively and spoke highly of it. He uses it frequently while maintaining a sizeable hunting property that his family owns.

However, I am kind of wondering if I made the wrong choice. I'm somewhat concerned about kickback while cutting with the 201. Generally, I'm quite careful when I am cutting so that I have only experienced kickback once or twice with the 291 running a green chain, but a top handle saw is definitely a different beast.

Can someone with some experience with the 201 TC-M give me some idea of how much kickback there is with the saw? I have not tried using it yet.

Edited to clarify that this is a 201 TC-M.

I try to keep all my guys from using the 201's we have. First, they are for climbing trees with, and I don't trust them not to dull the hell our of my saw. Second, I consider them to be a high risk for kickback by an inexperienced user. The only reason the groundies want to grab that saw is because it is sharp, powerful, and light. They have no idea how unqualified they are to use it properly.

If you are committed to being careful, by all means keep using it. Just remember to always keep your hand within the safe zone of the blade brake lever. If you get afoul of the nose on a kickback, that safety handle will save you, providing you left a controlling hand in position to hit it.

As to boring with a 201-T? Why would you need it? Boring is a rather specialized kind of cut, and I don't see any reason to do it with a top handled saw. After all, you are only going to have a 14" to 16" bar, and that generally excludes the need for boring. If you really need to bore something, you are probably not hanging on a rope 40 feet up in a tree. Get a better ground saw, and have at it with that.

 

[av8or3]

The closest I have come to being injured by a saw was when I was using a top handle Husky. I was running the saw at speed with the bar tip near the log I was cutting. I was watching for it to sling some oil before beginning to cut. My dog started barking and when I looked up to see what she was barking at the tip contacted the log and launched the bar directly at my face. I stopped it just inches from my face. Not hurt, fortunately, but wiser. Whew!

 

[pdqdl]

Horizontal kickbacks are far more
difficult to "control" than vertical ones.And somewhat gets trickier to position yourself in a secure zone .

Yes indeed. This is mostly because your hands and wrists are not easy to keep in position to hit the chain brake. I do not recommend relying on the inertial aspect of the chain brake.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Maybe forty years ago a customer I talked to frequently on the phone had a saw kick back and actually killed him. Got him in the head as I understand it trying to cut some kind of vines. Of course, the only absolute fact I know about the incident is that he is dead from a chainsaw cut.

 

[stihltech]

As for the changeover to a rear handle.It can be done, but it would be cheaper to sell the top handle unit and buy the rear handle. I have done it. Not worth the time or cost.

 

[HansFranz]

As others said, keep two hands on it and wrap your thumbs around the bars. The main thing to watch out for to prevent kickback is the tip of the bar, especially the top of the tip of the bar -- don't let it touch anything, especially anything springy like twiggy branches or chain-link fence. A friend of mine in high school had this happen, and the saw came back and hit him in his eye. I can still see those little black sutures the doctor put in his eyelid (it was just luck that the saw teeth didn't touch his eyeball).

I've heard people say, "Never stand behind the saw so that if it kicks back it can't hit you" but this can be hard to avoid with a chainsaw (I do follow this rule when running a table saw, however).

You can also get helmets / hats with a screen face shield to protect your eyebones if the saw does kick back in your face...lightweight saws (since they have less inertia) can snap back pretty hard and fast in a kickback (for the same reason lightweight handguns hurt your hands) so be careful. Always using full throttle when cutting can also reduce the risk of kickback. Don't half-throttle it. A slower chain is easier to stop, and, if something does touch the bar tip, gives the teeth more of a chance to "grab" and kick the saw back at you.

In general, take your time, take a break when winded or fatigued, and listen to your gut --- if something "feels" dangerous even if you're not sure why, pause and think about why your gut is telling you that. I have often found that my gut was "right" in situations like this, even though it took me a while to figure out why.

I also generally use the brake to lock the chain in place whenever I'm moving around with a running saw, in case I trip and fall in the tangle of branches, etc.

 

[jctaylor]

One of our local tree guys was badly injured by his top handle saw while trimming a palm tree. A lot of people in my neighborhood used him to maintain their palms and he was highly regarded with a ton of experience. I maintain my own palms but with a ladder and pole saw with a 10" bar. No way am I getting up close and personal with a palm crown!

 

[Farmer_Nate]

I have never used a top-handled saw but have been advised against it by many, especially for use on the ground. It sure is tempting due to the portability. I am pretty careful overall and aware of the dangers so I may try it some day. They tend to cost a bit, however, so...my old 35-year-old bigger saws are OK for now. I need the workout anyway.

 

[Chewbacca10]

@markle, thank you for that.

I have the 201T as well as the 201 rear handle. The 201 rear handle is a nice balanced, snappy saw for its size. You could probably sell the 201T for a minimum loss and purchase a 201 rear handle. It is a much safer option cutting moderate sized limbs.

Jon

@jon@camano, how does the 201 rear handle compare in terms of power to the top handle? I’m going with a rear handle at this point, but I am just curious.

Many thanks to all on the thread. I might be just fine with the top-handle, but I’m taking an unnecessary risk that I don’t need to take. I’m going to go with a rear handle, likely the 201C-EM.

 

[Todd Loosli]

So glad that you all took the time to respond. I have cut my own firewood all my life but never used a top handle saw. I have 3 in my collection and thinking about getting them out and doing some cutting. I had no idea how dangerous they could be. So grateful for the advice on the use of them. Thank you thank you.

 

[Farmer_Nate]

This post drilled home the reality that while holding the saw sideways, ANY saw, with grip on the side handle the chain brake is useless because your forearm/wrist is not in position to contact the brake lever.

In most cases, kickback with the saw in this orientation puts you out of the line of fire, but not always.

Yikes.

 

[HansFranz]

This post drilled home the reality that while holding the saw sideways, ANY saw, with grip on the side handle the chain brake is useless because your forearm/wrist is not in position to contact the brake lever..

Not sure about the 201, but I think some (many?) saws have an inertia system where if the saw suddenly kicks back, the brake will engage whether or not your hand hits the brake flag (kind of like many car seat belt systems) but I agree -- better to grip the saw where your hand will hit the brake flag if it kicks back, in case the inertia mechanism fails or is absent...having the brake flag hit your hand might also slow down the saw as it launches toward your face, too. (Some older saws have what looks like a brake flag, but there's no actual brake that stops the chain -- I guess the plastic thing is just there to contact your hand in a kickback, and maybe slow down if not stop the saw...)

 

[pdqdl]

So glad that you all took the time to respond. I have cut my own firewood all my life but never used a top handle saw. I have 3 in my collection and thinking about getting them out and doing some cutting. I had no idea how dangerous they could be. So grateful for the advice on the use of them. Thank you thank you.

They aren't exactly dangerous, until you begin making mistakes with them. At that point, you are holding a very high powered saw with shorter control handles and a lighter weight. That's a recipe for bad outcomes.

It's kind of like calling a Ferrari Testarossa a dangerous car. Despite the fact that they have a superfluous braking system, high performance steering and suspension, there seems to be an awful lot of videos on YouTube with some ***** spinning out of control on a city street and crashing into a line of parked cars or other well mannered traffic.

The wrong saw in the wrong hands can cause similar problems.

 

[Farmer_Nate]

But I'm a pro...ha ha.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Don't you test the chain brake not running by holding the saw in one hand and dropping the end of the bar on a stump or something solid ?

 

[Todd Loosli]

My big problem was the lack of knowledge of the things that could happen if I didn't do it right. Not sure if I would have thought about the kickback being so fast. Anyway glad you all got me thinking.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

My opinion....top handle saws are useless unless you're climbing trees.

If you don't plan on leaving the ground with the saw....there is no reason to even have a top handle saw. I would never grab my climbing saw to cut something if I were on the ground...rear handled saws are just a lot more ergonomic and a lot better at being controllable during a kickback scenario.

Not to mention, most small CC rear handle saws are cheaper than a 201t.