Killed my Dolmar 5100S??

[THALL10326]

I'm not sure I understand that logic (I'm not a 2 stroke expert so please understand that I'm trying to figure this out).

A carb lets a set amount of mix through it in a given time (metering the mix).

The fuel burns and provides power, and a cooling effect.
The oil burns, provides no power, but provides lubrication.

If you add more oil to the fuel/oil mix; there is more lubrication but less gas. Isn't this effect essentially leaning out the mix (less gas to more air)?

I'm struggling to understand this concept, but it seems to make sense that making the mix richer with oil actually leans out the saw when it's running.......?

KRS

No need to be struggling, you are correct. Far as I'm concerned if a saw can't live on 50:1 then it shall not live in my shed either. Dayummed if I'm having a can of fuel for this one and can of fuel for that one, to hell with that, they all gonna use the same 50:1 mix and thats that. Ive told all my saws you will live or die on 50:1 so get use to it,LOL To date I have never fried a saw period on a 50:1 mix.

Many years ago at a school the subject of mixes came up. According to Stihl Inc oils have improved alot over the years. The need for more oil back in the day was for lube quality. As oils got better the need for more of it in the mix became less. They also pointed out that engine tolerances tightened up over the years and that too meant a less need for more oil. One of the easiest ways to make a worn out saw run a little better was to add more oil to help make up for all the clearance within the cylinder. They also pointed out that that extra oil in chainssaws nowdays only provides more heat because the engine tolerances are tight and the quality of oil nowdays provides all the lube a engine needs. Finally they pointed out that adding more oil does lean out the fuel mix. More oil, less gas means a lean fuel mix. The gas does the cooling, the oil does the lube. I too had to take a double take on that but if you add it up it they are 100% correct, more oil, less gas equals a lean fuel mix with less cooling effect for the engine. So adding more oil in most cases does more harm than good.

 

[SawTroll]

No need to be struggling, you are correct. Far as I'm concerned if a saw can't live on 50:1 then it shall not live in my shed either. Dayummed if I'm having a can of fuel for this one and can of fuel for that one, to hell with that, they all gonna use the same 50:1 mix and thats that. Ive told all my saws you will live or die on 50:1 so get use to it,LOL To date I have never fried a saw period on a 50:1 mix.

Many years ago at a school the subject of mixes came up. According to Stihl Inc oils have improved alot over the years. The need for more oil back in the day was for lube quality. As oils got better the need for more of it in the mix became less. They also pointed out that engine tolerances tightened up over the years and that too meant a less need for more oil. One of the easiest ways to make a worn out saw run a little better was to add more oil to help make up for all the clearance within the cylinder. They also pointed out that that extra oil in chainssaws nowdays only provides more heat because the engine tolerances are tight and the quality of oil nowdays provides all the lube a engine needs. Finally they pointed out that adding more oil does lean out the fuel mix. More oil, less gas means a lean fuel mix. The gas does the cooling, the oil does the lube. I too had to take a double take on that but if you add it up it they are 100% correct, more oil, less gas equals a lean fuel mix with less cooling effect for the engine. So adding more oil in most cases does more harm than good.

You got it right, as far as I know..... :agree2:

 

[THALL10326]

Sold over 100 5100's and I have had only two fail due to fuel and dull chains!

Bad fuel and dull chains are going to hurt any brand!!

Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.

At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.

 

[04ultra]

Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.

At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.

I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt ....






.

 

[THALL10326]

You got it right, as far as I know..... :agree2:

Oh trust me its right. If you knew how many saws Stihl takes off the line and sends over to the testing department you would be amazed. They do everything you can think of to kill those saws and one of the things they do is mess with the mix. They know for a fact adding more oil only creates more heat. They put these little boxes right on top the saw and it tells them exactly how high the temps are in the engine.


Them cats do some wild stuff down there at the factory Sawtroll. I got a 361here at the house that came from their testing department down there. Saw is like new but its been put through pure hell. Its been rebuilt I think the man told me 19 times. I hope he did a good job on the 19th time cause its my saw now,LOLOL

 

[THALL10326]

I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt ....






.

And when you bring it in the door and its 2 weeks old I take one look and say what the hell did I tell ya, dayumm it to hell ya didn't listen did ya, 350.00 and I'll fix that fried motor, warranty you say, ha, what warranty fool,LOLOLOL

 

[fsfcks]

Thall...as the OP I would normally agree with you re dull chains and dust. In my experience the exception is that Osage Orange always cuts as (horrible yellow) dust, even with a newly sharp chain. I can cut Osage Orange and get dust. I can then immediately cut Eastern Red Cedar and get lovely chips.

 

[huskystihl]

Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.

At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.

I think the dust was from the osage tree he was cutting as i've heard that is the characteristic of that wood. We've taken down som pretty hard locust and ironwood that do the same thing, the saw is under load just not producing much of a chip and not because of a lack of sharp chain. This where filter failure becomes an issue which I think is what he was reffering to.

 

[McC]

I have cut all my firewood for the last 3 years with my 5100, and this summer this fragile time-bomb was still able to take first place at Washington county fair contest. I think the stihl/husky guys are jumping at the chance to bash this saw which embarrasses them with performance and price. When you buy a pro saw, you should know how to tune it. I couldn't imagine leaving my mixture needles as set from my dealer. I tweek my mixture whenever the temp changes. And why would you buy cheap blended gas anyway. I always use 93 octane, no ethanol, with synthetic oil.
Scott

 

[THALL10326]

I would like too clear the air a bit. I'm a Dolmar supporter, and I'm not trying to pick on, or bash Dolmar in anyway. I think the 7900 is the best stock 70cc to 80cc made today. No it's not perfect, the air filter could be better, but then again so could the 361's filter.

Now some have suggested that I'm basing my opinion of the 5100 on one singular failure. I'm not, that would be moronic. The 5100 does in fact have a high failure rate. Most of the failures are caused by air leaks from multiple points on the saw. I also know for a fact the 5100's have an extremely high failure rate in OH, KY, and IN. Most dealers in my area have stopped selling 5100's and or Dolmar products altogether. It's a shame because I truly feel that Dolmar has potential in the chainsaw market.

I would also like too note, that the guys at the Cutting Edge have been very helpful in trying to resolve the problems I've had with my 5100.

This post I find interesting because if its true and I'm not doulting for a second it isn't, what type of failures are we looking at here. Are we talking crank, bearings, cylinder failures, what type of failures? Also with most failures there is a cause, a fault of somekind. Air leaks at different points in the saw, thats kinda across the board there. Seems to me if there is a common failure of somekind the cause is usually a common one as well. Nail down these the types of failures your talking about Andy, I'm curious to see what these failures are.

I have read posts concerning the filter on these saws letting some dust in but for the life of me I haven't had that with my 5100. I read some posts concerning air leaks at the intake but not on mine. My 5100 has been fine since day one but I do admit it hasn't seen alot of use. It runs at 14,00-14,500 and seems to be holding up fine but I'm very picking about fresh fuel and clean filters and sharp chains. I guess its possible neglecting any of the three things I just mentioned could kill a saw turning those high Rpms pretty quick.

 

[Poley4]

Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.

It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!

 

[THALL10326]

I think the dust was from the osage tree he was cutting as i've heard that is the characteristic of that wood. We've taken down som pretty hard locust and ironwood that do the same thing, the saw is under load just not producing much of a chip and not because of a lack of sharp chain. This where filter failure becomes an issue which I think is what he was reffering to.

Ok, that makes sense. As long as the saw is working dust shouldn't matter. I take back my thought on a possible dull chain. The filter I've read about but I've yet to encounter any of that with my 5100. This osage orange wood must be some mean stuff. Sounds like wood for a big 3/8 chain with alot of HP pulling it. I've never cut any of that stuff so I'm in the dark on that type of sawing.

 

[Urbicide]

I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt ....






.

Rocks also work extremely well.

 

[THALL10326]

It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!

So true. Had a little 180 Stihl come in a few months back. Bought elsewhere but like new. It was melted to high heaven. The chain was so dull I could force the flat of my hand up and down it and it wouldn't even grab my skin. It was burnt black. Saw was in the warranty frame. I made a call. Stihl wanted to see the saw to make a judgement. I sent the whole saw to them. They called a couple days later they called and said give him a new saw and tell him no more free saws, tell him to learn to sharpen the chain!!!!!!

 

[04ultra]

Rocks also work extremely well.

Putting chain on backwards helps too.......




.

 

[sugarbush]

This post I find interesting because if its true and I'm not doulting for a second it isn't, what type of failures are we looking at here. Are we talking crank, bearings, cylinder failures, what type of failures? Also with most failures there is a cause, a fault of somekind. Air leaks at different points in the saw, thats kinda across the board there. Seems to me if there is a common failure of somekind the cause is usually a common one as well. Nail down these the types of failures your talking about Andy, I'm curious to see what these failures are.

I have read posts concerning the filter on these saws letting some dust in but for the life of me I haven't had that with my 5100. I read some posts concerning air leaks at the intake but not on mine. My 5100 has been fine since day one but I do admit it hasn't seen alot of use. It runs at 14,00-14,500 and seems to be holding up fine but I'm very picking about fresh fuel and clean filters and sharp chains. I guess its possible neglecting any of the three things I just mentioned could kill a saw turning those high Rpms pretty quick.

you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100 I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.

 

[Poley4]

you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100 I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.

I'd think it would be too cold to burn up a saw in Minnesota.

 

[huskystihl]

It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!

Ive seen idiots bust the anti vibe springs and rubbers from leaning into the saw so hard due to the chain being so dull. I hit mine every other tank just so I don't have to exert myself. Nothins funnier than watching someone huffin and puffin running a tool that basically runs itself if ran properly.

 

[THALL10326]

you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100 I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.

Hey Sugar hows the mators in Minn? LOL

I've been reading this thread and taking it all in and comparing to my Minn 5100. My 5100 has been trouble free. Like I said I'm picking about my chains, fuel and filters but to date I've never fried any brand of saw.

Far as E10 fuels goes that stuff is a pain in the azz for sure. Seems to draw water like crazy. I say for the price of a gallon of gas always get new and pitch that old gas after few months.

BTW Sugar I forgot to send you that 25lb mator I grew last year, sorry about that,LOL

 

[huskystihl]

Ok, that makes sense. As long as the saw is working dust shouldn't matter. I take back my thought on a possible dull chain. The filter I've read about but I've yet to encounter any of that with my 5100. This osage orange wood must be some mean stuff. Sounds like wood for a big 3/8 chain with alot of HP pulling it. I've never cut any of that stuff so I'm in the dark on that type of sawing.

We don't get it here either but if it's anything like ironwood I would be reaching for a 372 for starters.