Looking for a Wood furnace...Again

[Gobtool02]

PS I have a story and a half with a full basement that's uninsulated, maybe half in the ground, 2800sf + and I can heat it all. as with any of these new stoves or any stove for that matter dry wood is a must. Right now I'm using one output duct to heat the house the other is going into the basement and I don't have the cold air return hooked up yet. If I don't care to keep the basement as warm as the rest of the house and I hook up the cold air return upstairs I would think I can probably get by with maybe a quarter of the wood I was burning. I know the other brands are more efficient, it was what I could afford and I won't outlive a 30-year warranty. Satisfied in the foothills of North Carolina.

One more PS. This furnace has produced 69000 BTUs in one test session. The other two, about 40,000 is maximum output.

 

[JCREAD]

Yes no complaints on my end. Both boiler set ups working very consistently and other than a couple intermittently leaky PexAlPex compression fittings on my first setup the system(s) have been great. Cleaning the Attack became quick and easy once I removed the mechanism that moves the turbulators up and down, a modification that I've seen done on EKO and some other euro design boilers. Moving the turbulators up and down only cleans off gross build up and leaves the fine ash that inhibits heat transfer. I've been cleaning once a week and could probably stretch that a bit, the whole process takes about 10 minutes and that includes brushing the exhanger tubes, vacuuming out the lower chambers front and rear, and removing excess ash from the main firebox. I do remove the inducer fan once a season and blow off the fly ash. No regrets on my Attack boiler purchase.

That's good news. I was going to order a double plate heat exchanger from him also and he is asking me why I need one. I told him I was connecting this to my existing hot water baseboard oil fired system and use the existing circulators. I have the system designed and my father is going to help with the installation. He has installed a similar system years back so I think we can handle it. Thanks for the help.

 

[brenndatomu]

This furnace has produced 69000 BTUs in one test session.

Yep, and there have been quite a few reports of the front of the furnace glowing red hot during these "ballz out" sessions too...and then subsequent cracked/warped firebox components.
Oh, and their second EPA test is in question now too! Once the EPA closes the loophole that HY-C is exploiting, these things will be gone.

 

[sean donato]

Yep, and there have been quite a few reports of the front of the furnace glowing red hot during these "ballz out" sessions too...and then subsequent cracked/warped firebox components.
Oh, and their second EPA test is in question now too! Once the EPA closes the loophole that HY-C is exploiting, these things will be gone.

Interesting, been looking at them for a wile as my old smoke dragon is a pia. What loophole are they exploiting to get through the epa testing? I've mostly been reading favorable reviews about efficiency, and trouble free operations. (Provided the wood is seasoned properly)

 

[brenndatomu]

Interesting, been looking at them for a wile as my old smoke dragon is a pia. What loophole are they exploiting to get through the epa testing? I've mostly been reading favorable reviews about efficiency, and trouble free operations. (Provided the wood is seasoned properly)

Well "loophole" may not be the best description, but basically these EPA bureaucrats don't understand how a wood furnace is normally used/run, and HY-C (parent company) has them convinced that SOP is to "stoke the fire" by the Tstat calling for heat every so many minutes...which may be true on a really cold day, or in a really leaky house, but would not be SOP in the vast majority of installations on most days...the end result of this modulation during testing is that they are able to keep the secondary burn nursed along by giving it a little extra air every few minutes (don't know the intervals) which keeps it burning relatively cleanly...but in the real world, the furnace usually does have a call for heat when you reload, but then once the target temp is met, the combustion blower is off for quite a stretch, which results in secondary fire dying off (due to poor firebox/air distribution design) and the fire going smoky...then when the Tstat eventually calls for heat again, the blower starts up, which all too often results in a large back-puff when the fire "catches" again.
I know there are a few people that are satisfied with these things (very few) heck, I know one guy personally, but since these things first showed up in 2017 I'd say it runs 10:1 PO'd/regretful owners to happy owners...certainly not too many long term happy owners!
The EPA fortunately now realizes that their current testing procedure does not reflect "real world usage" in every case...they're supposedly working on solving the issue...hard to say how long that will take though!
The back-puffing issue, and the red hot furnace face/cracking/warping parts issue have been pretty well documented online...not hard to find. Search FC1000E and SF1000E, same furnace under different names/colors (Fire Chief/Shelter, both HY-C companies)
And be careful when you are reading the reviews on this furnace, these sneaky buggers have reviews for the old design (which was fine, as smoke dragons go anyways) mixed in there too...its kinda hard to tell what model the review was actually written for, but if you see they are talking about shaker grates, or smoke bypasses, that's the old models for sure.
And watch buying anything made under the USS umbrella of brands too, they just got caught selling pre-2020 models as "2020 certified" (they're not)
https://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2021/04/whistleblower-alleges-wood-stove.html

 

[sean donato]

Well "loophole" may not be the best description, but basically these EPA bureaucrats don't understand how a wood furnace is normally used/run, and HY-C (parent company) has them convinced that SOP is to "stoke the fire" by the Tstat calling for heat every so many minutes...which may be true on a really cold day, or in a really leaky house, but would not be SOP in the vast majority of installations on most days...the end result of this modulation during testing is that they are able to keep the secondary burn nursed along by giving it a little extra air every few minutes (don't know the intervals) which keeps it burning relatively cleanly...but in the real world, the furnace usually does have a call for heat when you reload, but then once the target temp is met, the combustion blower is off for quite a stretch, which results in secondary fire dying off (due to poor firebox/air distribution design) and the fire going smoky...then when the Tstat eventually calls for heat again, the blower starts up, which all too often results in a large back-puff when the fire "catches" again.
I know there are a few people that are satisfied with these things (very few) heck, I know one guy personally, but since these things first showed up in 2017 I'd say it runs 10:1 PO'd/regretful owners to happy owners...certainly not too many long term happy owners!
The EPA fortunately now realizes that their current testing procedure does not reflect "real world usage" in every case...they're supposedly working on solving the issue...hard to say how long that will take though!
The back-puffing issue, and the red hot furnace face/cracking/warping parts issue have been pretty well documented online...not hard to find. Search FC1000E and SF1000E, same furnace under different names/colors (Fire Chief/Shelter, both HY-C companies)
And be careful when you are reading the reviews on this furnace, these sneaky buggers have reviews for the old design (which was fine, as smoke dragons go anyways) mixed in there too...its kinda hard to tell what model the review was actually written for, but if you see they are talking about shaker grates, or smoke bypasses, that's the old models for sure.
And watch buying anything made under the USS umbrella of brands too, they just got caught selling pre-2020 models as "2020 certified" (they're not)
https://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2021/04/whistleblower-alleges-wood-stove.html

Very good to know! Guess I'll be looking at other models. Cheers.

 

[brenndatomu]

Very good to know! Guess I'll be looking at other models. Cheers.

Well, as for what's available new right now, 2 models that are contenders, the one with a long spotless track record is the Kuuma VF100, and then there is the first year model (with positive feedback so far) Drolet Heat Commander.
Keep in mind you can get a 26% tax credit on these models this year too (including the install cost)
https://www.lamppakuuma.com/furnaces/https://myfireplaceproducts.com/us_en/drolet-heat-commander-wood-furnace-df02003?xlan=heaters

 

[Gobtool02]

Yep, and there have been quite a few reports of the front of the furnace glowing red hot during these "ballz out" sessions too...and then subsequent cracked/warped firebox components.
Oh, and their second EPA test is in question now too! Once the EPA closes the loophole that HY-C is exploiting, these things will be gone.

 

[Gobtool02]

Unless you modify the opening in the draft inducer blower, and leave the ash door open, and have a chimney draft far exceeding the maximum of .08 w.c (which is the maximum recommended by all wood furnace manufacturers) there is no way you could ever get it hot enough to turn the door red hot, or even blue or straw color for that matter. With the size of the air opening going into the firebox and the doors closed with gaskets on them there's no way for enough oxygen to get in to produce the kind of heat to turn the door red, which is about 1500 degrees. It would be great if it had a automatic start function to get the temperature up at startup or refueling like
the other brands have. I have to leave the ash door open for 5 minutes or so at startup to get the temperature up. When the circulation blower comes on and stays on for a minute or more I know to close it.

 

[Gobtool02]

I would like to see a video of any make, model, or year wood stove, burning wood get hot enough to turn the door red. If anybody can do it I'd like to see it.

 

[NSMaple1]

I have seen vids of that, a Shelter or Firechief. Don't think I can find it again but maybe someone else can.

 

[brenndatomu]

I would like to see a video of any make, model, or year wood stove, burning wood get hot enough to turn the door red. If anybody can do it I'd like to see it.

 

[brenndatomu]

I would like to see a video of any make, model, or year wood stove, burning wood get hot enough to turn the door red. If anybody can do it I'd like to see it.

There were some videos too, not finding them right now though...

 

[Gobtool02]

I see two pictures, neither one of them has the door red. Mine gets the hottest right above the door but I've never seen it change colors. The first picture looks like a picture of the firebox around the door or in the firebox itself with the door open. I know you can get
some hot enough to turn the stove collar red on the older top exiting stoves. On my SF 1000e with my poor draft when cold, sometimes I have to open the ash door for a little while to get the temperature back up to what it should be to do the secondary burn which I plan on fixing that next fall.

 

[Gobtool02]

I'm imagine you can over-fire any stove if you leave the doors open or modifying the intake air going in. I've got one and overheating or over-firing is not a problem. The doors are open on both of those stoves in the pictures. The door is lined like the firebox with stainless steel and some kind of calcium something another in between it and the 3/16 steel main outer firebox. The door will get relatively hot but not as hot as the right above the door, that's the channel that feeds the secondary preheated air into the top of the firebox and down the middle at the top below the refectory plate or whatever they call it.

 

[brenndatomu]

Well, glad its working for you...come give us a 5 year follow-up report, if you still have it by then.

 

[Gobtool02]

I'll be glad to do that. I'll try to report back any problems or changes in my opinion or results, especially if I put a draft inducer on the flue pipe.

 

[Gobtool02]

I like my furnace so much I've actually been disappointed the last few days because of temperature so warm I don't have to use it

 

[brenndatomu]

I like my furnace so much I've actually been disappointed the last few days because of temperature so warm I don't have to use it

Yeah I think we are about done here too...fire has been out for a few days now, no signs of needing one in the extended forecast either...

 

[Gobtool02]

PS the door is cast iron and the front of the stove I believe, in the main firebox is 3/16 steel I believe, behind the stainless steel and the calcium compound they use.

Well "loophole" may not be the best description, but basically these EPA bureaucrats don't understand how a wood furnace is normally used/run, and HY-C (parent company) has them convinced that SOP is to "stoke the fire" by the Tstat calling for heat every so many minutes...which may be true on a really cold day, or in a really leaky house, but would not be SOP in the vast majority of installations on most days...the end result of this modulation during testing is that they are able to keep the secondary burn nursed along by giving it a little extra air every few minutes (don't know the intervals) which keeps it burning relatively cleanly...but in the real world, the furnace usually does have a call for heat when you reload, but then once the target temp is met, the combustion blower is off for quite a stretch, which results in secondary fire dying off (due to poor firebox/air distribution design) and the fire going smoky...then when the Tstat eventually calls for heat again, the blower starts up, which all too often results in a large back-puff when the fire "catches" again.
I know there are a few people that are satisfied with these things (very few) heck, I know one guy personally, but since these things first showed up in 2017 I'd say it runs 10:1 PO'd/regretful owners to happy owners...certainly not too many long term happy owners!
The EPA fortunately now realizes that their current testing procedure does not reflect "real world usage" in every case...they're supposedly working on solving the issue...hard to say how long that will take though!
The back-puffing issue, and the red hot furnace face/cracking/warping parts issue have been pretty well documented online...not hard to find. Search FC1000E and SF1000E, same furnace under different names/colors (Fire Chief/Shelter, both HY-C companies)
And be careful when you are reading the reviews on this furnace, these sneaky buggers have reviews for the old design (which was fine, as smoke dragons go anyways) mixed in there too...its kinda hard to tell what model the review was actually written for, but if you see they are talking about shaker grates, or smoke bypasses, that's the old models for sure.
And watch buying anything made under the USS umbrella of brands too, they just got caught selling pre-2020 models as "2020 certified" (they're not)
https://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2021/04/whistleblower-alleges-wood-stove.html