Wow...........I've been away from here awhile and ready through this I can see were my comment about swinging a tree 180 or whatever a guy needs to the lean as black magic was just an expression to the "trickery" with relief cuts to allow the tree to move and begin the process of the swing. The folks who know and use this I'm not showing or telling anything. Those that say may about a tree going straight over backward against the lean without Jack's or winches are correct, cuts and gravity will not let that happen. Now...................like the videos have shown...........the action of the tree going 180 to the lean is a swing made possible by over cutting the far side of a traditional horizontal cut to establish where the hinge will be, say by another 45 degrees +/- depending on what the faller needs on the farthest 1/3rd +/- the diameter of the tree from the side you're on. Back out and make a second relief cut around 1/2" lower than the first and not as deep giving the spiral staircase affect someone mentioned earlier, now the extra kerfs that have been put on the far side let the tree start moving toward the far side as you release the far side wood first in the back cut and work the back cut around to near side more of the weight will swing around the far side and role down the kerfs or steps however is easier to visualize as it gains momentum in the swing you release more and more of back cut so holding wood is near side making the tree pull around the stump 90 to 180 degrees of the lean, whichever the faller desires for the situation. The reason nobody drew a picture in my opinion is because this isn't recommended for all people to try and nobody including myself want to encourage anyone to go out and get in an accident. But since video wasn't good enough there ya go for the still non-believers, I can't draw worth a **** either so that's the best explaination I can muster. I feel like the misunderstanding is a tree can't physically fall 180 to the lean facing it up and putting a back cut in without a Jack or winch, is that what you're trying to get us to understand bwildered? Cuz you're correct if that's what you're meaning in your argument, what the others are saying is the forces being relieved to the extra cuts and physics of the scenario are allowing the tree to turn and swing 180 give or take from the lean by distributing its weight elsewhere from the natural lean. Also why everyone's arguing each swing is different and you can't draw in one picture what all is taking place for this swing to happen without a picture book. If drawing is still required I can't help, and suggest like others have to head out and try some different things and see what's possible. Nothing against anyone just another approach of explanation and with that said if any of it makes any sorta sense or not you all will let me know haha, and those that may go try anything mentioned please cut safe
A lot of them have gone quiet though after my last explanation, some light bulbs may have flickered out there.
The part of the hinge left in your method is exactly on the high side of the lean of the tree , when all the fibres are cut through everywhere else that proves that it's in tension & C of G is beyond that point Across the stump or beyond it, the tree cannot go in the direction of what is left of the hinge as its uphill to the C of G & lean, the absolute best case range of fall is 90' either side of what is left of the hinge to the opposite side of the stump .
Or perhaps:
No worries, it's been choice bro.
I thought I heard some hallelujahs echoing down the valley after that, doesn't change the physics though.
Okay I may have failed a good piece of info here that may or may not aid..........I would make the face cuts gunning the tree downhill where I want it to come around to against the lean. So my hinge and pulling wood is downhill side of the c/g with 1/3 face cut and a Humboldt undercut. The side I stand on will leave the pulling hinge wood as evrything else is cut, the opposite side from me is totally cut and extra kerf cuts are under that first off. Then as the back cut starts the remaining off side is being released and the tree shifts weight away from me to those cuts and yes the tension is at my side of the stump. But as the butt pivotes away from me it sits on the steps or extra need cuts I made creating the spiral staircase affect and I'm releasing more with my back cut all the while as the tree's c/g has now changed a few times as it rolls or swings around the stump. Gaining momentum in its swing is allowing so many degrees change from natural lean and when it gets around to where I want it to lay I cut it off to where the tension wood pulling breaks. Now that I think more you're right in the fact that it wants to go 90* of the lean because that's how I've cut my face out and extra relief cuts but because of the way I set it up and faced it away from the lean my pull wood will let it swing around. If I don't stay at the stump all this while and cut more pull would throughout this swing you're right it would only go 90* and hang up or break off, but by tickling the back cut throughout the redirect and swing process I can gain more than a 90* swing from natural lean and can come around as much as 180*
What if you start incrementally sawing the legs on the high side of the pool table?
Almost reminds me of the wifey saying I'm not hungry then you order get some fries and before you know it you had fries.
The proof of what I'm saying is in all the videos I have seen, the tree hits the ground no more than 90' to the hinge & line across the butt, sure it may peel & turn off the stump, the back cut prevents a lot of it, now if you were to do the same cuts above the back cut on the far side that would give it a really good spinning motion, we'll call it the ultra double soft Dutchman with a twist if it works!
The pool ball is just an analogy of gravity but we'll still use it in what your picturing, the table has 3 legs, the side of the table where the pool ball starts rolling from never changes height, which is the hinge of the tree, the ball will roll to the low side of the table, meanwhile you cut off one of the far side legs, the table drops & the ball arcs around to the new line of fall, it cannot pass backwards along its path to beyond where it started from as that is a fixed height & doesn't change. Even if you were hold the table on one one leg & tilt your opposite down & to the side the ball will always hit the ground between you & the support of the table.
The only reason I'd be blind is because my candle has nearly been put out a few times.More like...
its a halfwit conversation to have done something and then have someone who has not tell you that you can't because its "illogical" or not possible because of physics.
You're a blind man who doesn't know he's in the dark.
You'll never see it even if you accidentally did it to a tree yourself
So I just quit wasting my time...
Go whittle on a tree and figure it out for yourself like we did.
Or you could "man up" and just admit you "could be wrong" about this. People may just respect you for it
