Low impact pre-commercial thinning with a skidsteer - am I nuts?

[slowp]

Dmmit Bob you changed wording on me now! Well I am a technical forester... Just have one more semester to go then getting permanently hitched to the ball and chain Anyways I don't tell em no... I just tell em they f$^%ed up and to fix it then shoot the bull for another half hour and leave

Ah grasshoppah, you are learning to see the light! Of course, just like training dogs and orcas, a reward for doing the right thing works also.
Cookies are the dog treats for loggers. It can breed some resentment though, especially if the boss confiscates the cookies and eats them in front of the crew.

 

[Jim Timber]

Depends who buys it. I looked into having a buddy haul it for me, but buying a real log trailer would probably kill any chance of breaking even.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Depends who buys it. I looked into having a buddy haul it for me, but buying a real log trailer would probably kill any chance of breaking even.

Goose neck flatbed and build some bunks.

 

[slowp]

Ugh road decking..... shoulda done more cut bank! okay okay maybe some logs jillpoked in the bank will uh mitigate the shovel ops griping... we need a snoose can smily!!!

They were happy to be working. That sale was scr...oops incorrectly planned and that portion was supposed to be skidder logged, while the flat portion said to helicopter log it. We did some changes and they offered to use their yarder without a modification in the logging costs.

 

[Jim Timber]

What's a typical minimum purchase from a mill? I doubt they'd be too keen on a guy rolling in with 4 logs, right?

 

[slowp]

My favorite photo of fell and buck. Another low impact example.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Ah grasshoppah, you are learning to see the light! Of course, just like training dogs and orcas, a reward for doing the right thing works also.
Cookies are the dog treats for loggers. It can breed some resentment though, especially if the boss confiscates the cookies and eats them in front of the crew.

Yeah I take a more psychological approach... lots of BS and put a snoose in... some guys like hearing they are doing a good job so I try not to rain on the parade. lol

I hear ya Miss P. Just in a poo giving morning lol Hope your day is off to a good start... I should really finish this assignment that's due in an hour or so.... But AS is so much more educational... and fun!!! lol

 

[OlympicYJ]

What's a typical minimum purchase from a mill? I doubt they'd be too keen on a guy rolling in with 4 logs, right?

10" yeah they want a good sized load. Veneer guys shouldn't be as much of a worry.

 

[Jim Timber]

Tell your instructor you were giving hell to an outsider. Should make up for any missed points.

 

[OlympicYJ]

She's a Nazi bunny squeezer anyways... not worth the effort. Not hell just good advice.

 

[Gologit]

I am one of those types. 1/3 an acre is big. Really big. We often would have a road turn out, with trees cut for swing room, and that's it. Of course, steep ground is very limiting.

I do consider this picture to represent real "low impact" logging. It's easy on the ground, and has a reasonable landing size to boot.

View attachment 332487

I really need the head banging smiley. That's low impact alright. It's so small that there's no room to deck anything and we all know that those huge decks with a couple of days worth of wood are just awful and evil.
Please tell me that there was a turn around for the trucks within a 1/4 mile and a slip for the on deck truck...as in one loading and one waiting at all times. No, never mind... on that mini landing the trucks would probably have time to back clear in from the pavement while the boys were getting a load together. I can hear the descriptive phrasing from the truck drivers clear down here.
And no side-rod in his right mind would fail to share the cookies with the crew. Subtle mutiny would rule the day.

BIGGER LANDINGS, please.

 

[Jim Timber]

At least I have that part right. I don't want anyone to have to back up down anything.

 

[firebrick43]

I've never intended to skid logs with the skidsteer; only load, push tops around, process firewood, level roads, fill fallen tree divots, post hole auger, snowblow, and whatever else needs doing. A tractor can do all of that, but the FEL on a compact tractor with the same size of a skidsteer wouldn't be able to lift much more than my electric winch on the log arch now. They also don't have the turning radius or breakout force.

Plowing snow is cheaper, but has limitations. I could've paid for the machine this winter if I had a snowblower on one. With plowing you have to have somewhere to shove the snow, with blowing it you just have to have somewhere to aim. As the snow builds up along the sides of a road/driveway you encounter more and more resistance to pushing it off the side. Snowblowers don't have that problem. You can also go right up to a garage door with a snowblower, with a plow you have to raise the plow over the snow and then drop it down by the door and pull back to then shove it off to the side. In my neighborhood, there's several tuck-under garages so you can't plow them out efficiently anyway.

Snowblower on a tractor requires driving in reverse - not something I want to do for miles at a time.

Looked up the 440 skidder again to be sure it's what I thought you were talking about. That size machine is exactly what I don't want in my woods. I can pull 20" 16' long red oak with my atv and you'd never know I was there afterwards.

Never thought of skidding logs with a skid steer. They don't work well in areas with soft holes, soft dirt, off kilter terrain and such. They also are terrible to maintain (everything crammed into the tub) and lousy visibility which is a BIG deal in the woods. Then you say a skidder is to big but skid steers tear up everything. Skid steers were designed to load and scrape level barns and barn lots of manure. Work ok loading gravel and several other task on level lots with at least a gravel base. Terrible any where else. Their popularity steems from there portability and they will do many jobs , but many half a$$ed. A multi terrain loader works so much better off road, especially leveling out dirt where the skid steer is a poor choice. Around here unless they are working on concrete skid steers are not sold any more for contractors, and light construction. The rubber tracked machines make earth moving and grading child's play due to the lack of pitching movement so inherent with skid steers. Many use the for snow removal just fine to. You realize there is a difference between multi terrain loaders and compact track loaders? The MTL have torsion mounted boggy wheels that follow the ground instead of the solid track frame of the CTL. Still a 60 hp tractor will be far more versitile and stable.

As far as blowing snow with a skid steer , you know you need a very expensive high flow pump added on?
You can buy a much larger tractor compared to a skid steer. Gear drive instead of chain drive. More traction. Won't tear up the land as much and more stable, better visabilty, better maintenance ease, better support in most areas(mechs hate skid steers). You don't have to have a rear mounted snow blower. Modern tractors can drop the loader in 2 or 3 mins, some now without leaving the seat. A front mount snow blower has a sub frame that goes back to the draw bar. As long as everything is on a level solid surface you drive over the drawbar until it slips on the drawbar. Drop your drawbar pin, hook up you PTO shaft and hydraulic clyinder hose, depending on model there might be two pins in the front but most have a drive into pins now. Five for the best and fifteen for the worst and now you have a much more efficient PTO powered blower instead of a hydraulic blower on the front of a pitching bronco.

A 50 -60 hp 4wd tractor while not as ideal as a skidder or fowarder is much better for the task your asking.

So you asked the question of are you nuts. The answer is yes because you ask questions but don't listen to everyone's advise. If you already owned one and money was tight, ok. But when you are going to buy one and still don't listen. Well it sounds like you won't listen to reason so I will step away from the wall I am beating my head against.

Think of me when you just ran over a stump or rock that you couldn't see and your laying on the side and your head hurts from flailing around in the cage!

 

[OlympicYJ]

I really need the head banging smiley. That's low impact alright. It's so small that there's no room to deck anything and we all know that those huge decks with a couple of days worth of wood are just awful and evil.
Please tell me that there was a turn around for the trucks withing a 1/4 mile and a slip for the on deck truck...as in one loading and one waiting at all times. No, never mind... on that mini landing the trucks would probably have time to back clear in from the pavement while the boys were getting a load together. I can hear the descriptive phrasing from the truck drivers clear down here.
And no side-rod in his right mind would fail to share the cookies with the crew. Subtle mutiny would rule the day.

BIGGER LANDINGS, please.

Head bang smilie majig and new snoose smilie to calm the head banger down!

 

[Gologit]

Head bang smilie majig and new snoose smilie to calm the head banger down!

There you go Wes...now you have the right idea.

My bad, too. I thought you were done with school and I had a greenhorn forester to pick on. Darn.

 

[OlympicYJ]

Haha well nope but I am working for a different outfit again this year... def not as green as most green foresters... although they don't have to be green to pick on em!

 

[Jim Timber]

So you asked the question of am I nuts. The answer is yes because you ask questions but don't listen to everyone's advise. If you already owned one and money was tight, ok. But when you are going to buy one and still don't listen. Well it sounds like you won't listen to reason so I will step away from the wall I am beating my head against.

Ah, but I haven't bought anything yet.

Cabs on tractors in the woods = broken stuff. No cab in the winter = no work done. So if I have a cab, I'll get A/C too.

We're currently on day 80 of sub zero temps. (ok, so it's half that, but still)

You ever run a snowblower in the wind without a cab? It's no fun!

 

[KiwiBro]

Goose neck flatbed and build some bunks.

You are reading my mind. It's on my wish list. I had to pass on one that was only $1k recently because other gear needed the money more. Pretty gutted about that. Hook the braked rear axle to the remotes and I might just be able to stop it on command rather than the tail wagging the dog on the steep downhills.

 

[slowp]

I really need the head banging smiley. That's low impact alright. It's so small that there's no room to deck anything and we all know that those huge decks with a couple of days worth of wood are just awful and evil.
Please tell me that there was a turn around for the trucks withing a 1/4 mile and a slip for the on deck truck...as in one loading and one waiting at all times. No, never mind... on that mini landing the trucks would probably have time to back clear in from the pavement while the boys were getting a load together. I can hear the descriptive phrasing from the truck drivers clear down here.
And no side-rod in his right mind would fail to share the cookies with the crew. Subtle mutiny would rule the day.

BIGGER LANDINGS, please.

The trucks backed up a hill, maybe a quarter of a mile? from the main road. The main road had few turnouts and the curve that most lowboys had the very rear outside wheels hanging over, or so the drivers said. Everybody was happy to be working at all--that was at the time the market crashed.

That was the same crew that didn't listen when the forester suggested that they had their intermediate support backwards. She stayed down in the brush to see the fail. Hmmmf. They offered her a job at that point.

It wasn't the side rod, it was the owner--the gypo himself who absconded with the cookies. The crew morale took a nose dive. The same guy told me to NEVER tell his crew they were doing a good job because then they'd demand higher pay.

 

[firebrick43]

Most smaller tractors can get relatively inexpensive cabs for the or heater housers. Put the on while blowing snow. Come spring they come off.

But alas I have spent years driving both tractors with and without. Snow blowing without one sucks. Driving a skid steer or tractor in the summer with a cab that the ac failed is worse. Every ten year old skid steer that I have worked on had broken ac and the owners ripped out the glass as they were not going to pay the thousands of dollars the fix it. Also in a skidsteer/MTL you are right there at the action. While wind direction and speed has a certain amount to do with it every snow blower I have operated topically throws a fine dusting of snow no matter the wind direction 2 or 3 feet back on the hood. In a skid steer that your door glass. But this conversation started as thinning woods but as the weight of negatives about your idea has come down you try to change the "requirements" and they still don't hold.