Lubrication prior to running a rebuilt saw?

[THALL10326]

Hi all,

I was wondering if before starting up a saw that was torn apart and rebuilt (so very very clean), it was required to lubricate the crank, cylinder, and anything else so that you don't burn it up, like running a 4 cycle with no oil.

Obviously, I've never torn a saw apart, so I figured I'd ask before I destroy my work.

Thanks!

Bryan

Thats a question that can have many different answers. Some say litely coat the internals before assembly, some say dump a pile oil in there before assembly. I find the latter to be a pain and not needed unless you want to smoke up the place and crank your hiny off till she finally starts. A lite coat of 2 cycle oil is all I use in the shop on customer rebuilds, I mean very lite. Too date I've had no engine failures come back.

Even so I've been doing alittle experiment on a few of my own saws. I've rebuilt several saws the past year or so I got for free, around 10 or so. I assembled them with no type of engine oil but instead merely used just a little bit Stihl penetrating oil out of a spray can. I litely sprayed all the bearings, gave the cylinder a good spray and wipe the excess out. I sprayed the rings and skirts fairly wet and wipe off the excess threw them babies together. The result, I can't see any differance than the customer saws I use engine oil on the internals before assembly other than a helluva lot less smoke and easier starting on the first start up after rebuild. Will they last, they seem to far as I can tell. I've sold a few of these freebies rebuilt using only penetrating oil cheap, price of the parts, to a good buddy of mine and he runs the living hell out of them. Too date no engine failures. So who knows.

Thats not saying don't use oil on your rebuild, its saying oiling the internals by dumping oil all over is not needed. A lite coat is all thats needed. I suspect less is alot better than alot. I wonder if oiling the internals is needed at all on assembly other than making the piston slip in the cylinder easier but thats me, not the majority on the subject. Oiling seems to be the norm and I'm sure it doesn't hurt anything if used moderately. Too much is a mess, a hard start up and a smoke stack when it does start..

 

[Andyshine77]

Less definitely is more on the piston.

Really? why? You do know it simply gets burned off almost immediately. Now I know most of you know nothing about internal combustion engines. Wow this site has gone downhill, the only people who know anything stay in the Poulan thread.

 

[FATGUY]

git 'em Andre!

 

[Justsaws]

It is flat amazing to me how many of you guys swear by 50:1 mix (which is way to lean on lube for me) when an engine is turning 13,000, but put straight oil on everything when an engine is static because you want good lube. WOW!

:rotfl:That made me laugh. Thanks.

 

[Justsaws]

Really? why? You do know it simply gets burned off almost immediately. Now I know most of you know nothing about internal combustion engines. Wow this site has gone downhill, the only people who know anything stay in the Poulan thread.

Could be worse. You could be hanging out in the modified saw forum.

 

[edisto]

Really? why? You do know it simply gets burned off almost immediately. Now I know most of you know nothing about internal combustion engines. Wow this site has gone downhill, the only people who know anything stay in the Poulan thread.

Have you read the thread Tzed posted a link to, or are you just arguing for the sake of being argumentative?

Too much oil on assembly can interfere with bedding the ring(s).

 

[Tzed250]

.

They'll never learn....

 

[super3]

Not lubing everything during assembly makes no sense at all to me. Never again in it's life will it ever run dry again. Since when is a dry wear surface a good idea in ANY internal combustion engine? Not in my saws.

I think the part that no one is looking at is...the only time the rings are on a dry surface is the on the very first up stroke and on that same first up stroke the skirt has left an oil film on the cylinder wall. With the very first down stroke the rings are riding on oil.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Have you read the thread Tzed posted a link to, or are you just arguing for the sake of being argumentative?

Too much oil on assembly can interfere with bedding the ring(s).

You are talking about a saw that is going to turn several hundred million RPM in good life, and you are worried about the rings seating in the few seconds it takes to burn all of whatever you decided to put in there out?

The effect of whatever lubricant you put in there, or if you use nothing doesn't amount to ####.

 

[roncoinc]

finished up a 350 yestday.
dipped the wrist pin bearing in 2 stroke oil,put it in and wiped my fingers off on the piston and inside the jug.
with my squirt can sprayed some on the crank bearing and end bearings.that left some mix in the bottom.
when i stated it i did'nt notice excess smoke but i was not looking for it either.i also set the carb rich to be on the safe side . saw nothing to call the FD about.
i always put the ring in the jug to check the gap,i cant stand that dry metal on dry metal sound,to me like fingernail on a blackboard !
if the saw dont start right away how many revolutions do you want to run dry ?
saw five per pull,ten times,50 revolutions of nothing but dry metal scraping on dry metal

when a saw sits for a long time it could be said there is no lube left but considering the wearing in of the new parts and the mating the lack of lube for a short time i feel is of less importance than brand new..

On a saw that has sit for a VERY long time,many years and is really dry i flood them well and turn them over a lot and then pull plug and clear it out,..could probly do that on a new rebuild also.

Myself i prefer pre-lube,any carbon buildup should be nothing compared to the years it will be run .

 

[edisto]

You are talking about a saw that is going to turn several hundred million RPM in good life, and you are worried about the rings seating in the few seconds it takes to burn all of whatever you decided to put in there out?

The effect of whatever lubricant you put in there, or if you use nothing doesn't amount to ####.

Too much oil can prevent the rings from expanding enough to get that oil off of the cylinder wall. If it stays on the wall, it is exposed to heat. If that oil is exposed to heat, it will oxidize. If it oxidizes, you have glazing. if you have glazing, you have no more ring bedding.

How much is too much? You err on your side, and I'll err on mine.

That's also why you need short periods of heavy loading for proper bedding. You have to expand the rings enough to get the oil off of the cylinder walls.

 

[oneoldbanjo]

I use a drop or two of 2 cycle oil on each bearing, a thin coat of oil on the cylinder and piston smeared around with my finger - and that is it. When the starter chord is pulled with the choke set there will be a few rotations with the assembly oil providing the lubrication - then when the fuel enters the engine it will have a cold piston, cold cylinder, cold crank, etc. - and the fuel mixture will condense on everything inside the engine. As the engine starts any excess oil will be burned off as soon as the engine starts to warm up.

There is no need to make this complicated....a little oil goes a long way.

 

[PA Plumber]

I can appreciate using 2-cycle lube.

How about a little dab of Rem Oil?

 

[John R]

I lube the piston, rings and the cylinder.
Ya know everything slips in better with lube.

 

[Andyshine77]

Too much oil can prevent the rings from expanding enough to get that oil off of the cylinder wall. If it stays on the wall, it is exposed to heat. If that oil is exposed to heat, it will oxidize. If it oxidizes, you have glazing. if you have glazing, you have no more ring bedding.

How much is too much? You err on your side, and I'll err on mine.

That's also why you need short periods of heavy loading for proper bedding. You have to expand the rings enough to get the oil off of the cylinder walls.

So the incoming charge doesn't clean the intake skirt?? Every saw I've taken apart, stock, new or modified has had a good coating of oil on both the intake and exhaust skirt. This is what I like to see BTW.

Tzed250 how long will the ring glide over the oil? I think maybe you're over thinking this one.

 

[Andyshine77]

rupedoggy I apologize for being rude, you didn't deserve it.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Well, I have an 044 with the jug already on, but not cranked yet. Waiting on intake boot. Took my finger and rubbed a little Kendall Super Blue on the pin, bearings, and wall. I have an 056 MagII waiting on a piston from Canada. I have a 026 jug just out of the dishwasher that I am going to put back together as soon as I finish typing this. I have an 028 waiting on a piston from Greece that shipped Dec. 27 supposedly tied up in customs. And, I have an 056 Super that I am going to tear down in the AM.

I think I will try something different on each and see if I see any difference in how the compression comes up.

May even try some REM OIL.

 

[edisto]

So the incoming charge doesn't clean the intake skirt?? Every saw I've taken apart, stock, new or modified has had a good coating of oil on both the intake and exhaust skirt. This is what I like to see BTW.

Tzed250 how long will the ring glide over the oil? I think maybe you're over thinking this one.

I must be an idiot too Andy, because I'm not following what you are asking. What is the connection between getting too much oil between the rings and cylinder during assembly and having oil on the skirt as the result of normal operation?

 

[PA Plumber]

~snip~

May even try some REM OIL.

Alright! Now we're talking.
I've done that on a few saws now.
Not much mess, aerosol can, and the saws start right up.

I've got an 026 and a 028 I've put quite a few tanks of fuel through.
Things all look good from the muffler side.

Do I have to post if one gets roasted?

 

[Andyshine77]

I must be an idiot too Andy, because I'm not following what you are asking. What is the connection between getting too much oil between the rings and cylinder during assembly and having oil on the skirt as the result of normal operation?

I did miss that, however the same applies for the rings IMHO.