Making Splitter with six way head??

[EXCALIBER]

Ok maybe its just me but why doesn't anyone make a splitter with a six way or eight way head like in this video? Seems would be the fastest way to get the splitting done, and get back to cutting sooner. Thoughts? I wanna build one.
[video=youtube;hhmKBDIAXd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmKBDIAXd0[/video]

 

[openloop]

I would imagine that machine is achieving much higher forces than your average ~30 ton splitter can muster.

 

[leon]

wood splittee

The Chomper Firewood Processor
has a O-2-4-6-8 way splitting head
which employs a rotating splitting
head that allows you to split a round
up to 8 ways as it is being sheared in
the processor.

 

[EXCALIBER]

The Chomper Firewood Processor
has a O-2-4-6-8 way splitting head
which employs a rotating splitting
head that allows you to split a round
up to 8 ways as it is being sheared in
the processor.

Yeah but they want 20k for one. Looking for a cheaper way without buying one of the processors.

 

[Hank Chinaski]

a decent 30 ton still only has one splitter, so figure out what it'd cost to build something that has 3-5 times the power/force and then you'll see why the processor step is an expensive one

might could do something if you could come across some "big" cylinders, and a pump for scrap prices etc, but it'd be difficult IMHO

 

[EXCALIBER]

a decent 30 ton still only has one splitter, so figure out what it'd cost to build something that has 3-5 times the power/force and then you'll see why the processor step is an expensive one

might could do something if you could come across some "big" cylinders, and a pump for scrap prices etc, but it'd be difficult IMHO

Actually many of the new 20 ton and bigger splitters have an option of a 4 way wedge so I don't think its a problem of pressure.

 

[leon]

Yeah but they want 20k for one. Looking for a cheaper way without buying one of the processors.

OK,


The basic Simplex 14 with the
honda engine and with the eight
way head is 19,500 based
on the October 2008 prices.

You would spend more building
that unit for yourself, and it would
require a lot more work, a very large
motor, and large tank even with a manual
control valve.


The use of a double acting telescoping cylinder
for the ram would work and work very well,
BUT the double acting cylinder alone would require
a lot of hydraulic oil and may be as costly as
the basic SIMPLEX 14PTO unit due to its being
a double acting telescoping cylinder.




A Simplex 14PTO Manual unit which
would be $16,500 with the eight
way head based on the 2008 prices.



Everything has its opportunity cost,
wouldn't you rather put the chain saw(s)
down and let the chomper work and
move the logs to the processor and save
the larger diameter logs for some other time
when you could partially rip them with a
lumber mill kit from Baileys to cut and fit
the semi load of oversized logs in the Chomper?

You can also put the ripped log pieces in the
Chomper as well and get rid of them with
very little work other than attaching the cable
to the quarters cut off the oversized logs.

I would have purchased a Chomper but the
commercial splitter I bought was at a fire sale price
as it was excess inventory and I did not have the
extra funds.

 

[EXCALIBER]

I looked at the chomper but it has a major drawback in that it is designed to cut only green or fresh wet wood or else it splinters the wood. Also it is only capable of very small diameter wood.

 

[chiefs584ever]

Timberwolf makes them and they work like a charm. Have not regretted buying my TW6 at all. Makes splitting wood much less work.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

 

[kubotakid]

multi wedges

Theres alot of companies makin spliters with 6/ 8 way wedges, and there using 4.5/ 5 in rams for the most part. BUT, You wont see (ANY) videos of them running notty wood, for obvious reasons. Eric

 

[leon]

woodsplitter

Every woodsplitter makes splinters!!,
its simply due to the nature of any wood
used for firewood.

Hardwood species splinter much easier than
softwood species of wood simply due to the
density and tight grained nature of the
hardwood lignin and the hardwoods cambium
layers so thats normal.

The Chomper splits both a seasoned and unseasoned
loags used for firewood, this argument has no basis in fact.

I do not know where or how you base that argument because
the hydraulics work the same way for both soft wood species
and hardwood species harvested for firewood.

You also have remember that mature hardwood logs shatter
much, much easier than soft wood if they are harvested
and dropped when a tracked or wheeled harvester is not used.

Hardwoods and soft woods consumed for firewood split easier
when frozen as the wood grain is tighter and therefore more dense.


The Chomper super 16 splits up to 16 inch diameter logs.
If your blessed with larger pulpwood bolts more power to you.

Your dealing with a seasonal commodity, and I am simply trying
help you.

 

[D&B Mack]

I use the Timberwolf as well. No matter how much pressure you have, if the log isn't a relatively straight grain, it isn't going to work. The wood will "explode" into schards (sp?). But as for the straight grain, you need more pressure the more times you are going to split a round in one motion. As you well know, the more pressure you get, the more you pay for it.

 

[EXCALIBER]

Every woodsplitter makes splinters!!,
its simply due to the nature of any wood
used for firewood.

Hardwood species splinter much easier than
softwood species of wood simply due to the
density and tight grained nature of the
hardwood lignin and the hardwoods cambium
layers so thats normal.

The Chomper splits both a seasoned and unseasoned
loags used for firewood, this argument has no basis in fact.

I do not know where or how you base that argument because
the hydraulics work the same way for both soft wood species
and hardwood species harvested for firewood.

You also have remember that mature hardwood logs shatter
much, much easier than soft wood if they are harvested
and dropped when a tracked or wheeled harvester is not used.

Hardwoods and soft woods consumed for firewood split easier
when frozen as the wood grain is tighter and therefore more dense.


The Chomper super 16 splits up to 16 inch diameter logs.
If your blessed with larger pulpwood bolts more power to you.

Your dealing with a seasonal commodity, and I am simply trying
help you.

Ok first off I realize you will get splinters off of any splitter but when the whole piece turns into tooth pics its no good. I found this out by talking to people who had bought them and tried them on dry logs. The hydralics work the same yes but the wood is different. For example take a piece of cheese out of the package and it cuts fairly easily into nice long slices. Now leave that same brick of cheese out on the counter to dry out for a week or so and try slicing it with the same knife you used before and yep chunks and pieces everywhere, but no slices.

Most the trees I cut around here are 20 inches plus as well. What I want is a way to speed up the splitting part of the deal with a six or eight way split, therefore eliminating handling the piece several times just to split it into usable size pieces. Some pieces can't be split with a head like that but I would think most could. Maybe have the cutters stair stepped back so it hits one wedge then and inch or two further it hits the next wedge. Basically build a standard horizontal vertical splitter but with a better wedge design.

I appreciate the help just looking to spend less than a grand on this not go buy a 20k or 30k processor that a guy could probably build for far less.

 

[leon]

firewood

Ok first off I realize you will get splinters off of any splitter but when the whole piece turns into tooth pics its no good. I found this out by talking to people who had bought them and tried them on dry logs. The hydralics work the same yes but the wood is different. For example take a piece of cheese out of the package and it cuts fairly easily into nice long slices. Now leave that same brick of cheese out on the counter to dry out for a week or so and try slicing it with the same knife you used before and yep chunks and pieces everywhere, but no slices.

Most the trees I cut around here are 20 inches plus as well. What I want is a way to speed up the splitting part of the deal with a six or eight way split, therefore eliminating handling the piece several times just to split it into usable size pieces. Some pieces can't be split with a head like that but I would think most could. Maybe have the cutters stair stepped back so it hits one wedge then and inch or two further it hits the next wedge. Basically build a standard horizontal vertical splitter but with a better wedge design.

I appreciate the help just looking to spend less than a grand on this not go buy a 20k or 30k processor that a guy could probably build for far less.

Using the comparison of a warm block of hard cheese
to a dry hardwood log is not a comparison!!!


Hardwood will splinter more easily due to the fine grain of the wood itself.


Do these folks have proof that they owned them?
I would not listen to anyone that was not on the list that
was provided by Rainer Hydraulics or mentioned by them as a reference.


Its all in the mechanics of how the splitter head is designed.
Any time you make firewood 18 inches or longer
the block is going to break apart that much easier
and splinter because it has more cubic inches in volume
and the 18 inch hardwood block is simply reacting to the
force applied against it, where the 6 or 8 way wedge is
stationary and the ram is pushing the block into the wedge.

The block is being pushed against an imovable object being the ram.

The square area of the exposed surface in a six or eight way wedge
is a very large area of steel that the ram is pushing to to split the block
of firewood through.

Using the eight way wedge that is twenty inches wide for the example;
if the wings are one half in thick the exposed surface area of the steel is
20 by 1/2 square inches per wedge section that gives you 10 square
inches of exposed wedge to the block face, eight of them equals
eighty square inches of solid mass exposed to the block.


The formula for the square area of a circle is 3.14 times the radius times the radius
which is ten inches plus lets say; the 2 inch center area for the weldment is 4 square inches
just to pick a figure.

3.14 times 10 times 10 gives us 314 square inches of surface area for a 20 inch circle
plus the four square inches in the center of the splitting head gives us 84 square inches
of exposed edge to the block face.


The entire 314 square inches of the wood block is being rammed against the
84 square inches of steel that is exposed to the block and then it begins to
split where ever the resistance is overcome by the ram which is why you get splinters!

You also have to understand the ram is pressing agains the ENTIRE surface area of the wedge as it is
pushing the block through against the resistance created by the splitting wedges entire surface area.

If the wedge is ten inches long each wing has 200 square inches of surface area, 8 sections is 1,600 square inches of suface area the block passes by when it is split, thats is the reason you see the short wedges on
package wood set ups.

You are not going to solve it inexpensively NO matter what.
You have to understand that the more resistance you provide the greater the wood
damage if it comes down that which is not a big issue in the scheme of things.


Perhaps if you welded together a honey comb wedge with a 4 inch length
you could solve this issue. as you would have smaller wood pieces and possibly fewer
splinters-Possibly but I doubt it.


A lot of the members give the splinters away for kindling for their customers which
is a great way to keep customers.

If your having this much trouble with large rounds perhaps you should hire the
processing done on a per ton basis so you and the processor owner both walk
away mad as you both will feel screwed fore the price as its a fair way to handle
it and not have to guesstimate cordage.

You can collect the splinters and sawdust and offer it as kindling and solve the issue.

Your selling firewood, that is all your doing and there is no point in trying to make
it a beauty contest for the best wood with the least amount of splinters.

 

[KiwiBro]

EXCALIBER, :notrolls2:


opcorn:

 

[cantoo]

Somebody owes me 20 minutes of my life back.

 

[Iron man]

Somebody owes me 20 minutes of my life back.

If your a smoker quit for a day and you'll get your 20 min back.LOL

 

[pdqdl]

...

You also have to understand the ram is pressing agains the ENTIRE surface area of the wedge as it is
pushing the block through against the resistance created by the splitting wedges entire surface area.
if the wedge is ten inches long each wing has 200 square inches of surface area, 8 sections is 1600 square inches of suface area the block passes by when it is split. thats is the reason you see the short wedges on
package wood set ups.
...

This statement is mathematically correct, but has no real meaning to the resistance of splitting the wood. Friction is not determined by the surface area of contact, so how long the wedge is will not have any bearing on how hard the machine works to split the wood.

The reason manufacturers put shorter wedges on a splitter is to reduce their steel expense. More metal=more money, Not enough metal=strength failure!
**********************************************************************

The force required to split wood is not a "surface area" consideration at all. It is more related to the binding forces that hold the wood together and the efficiency of the splitter to do the work.

An 8-way wedge is overcoming quite a bit more binding forces than a simple split. Obviously, a really blunt wedge will take more force to penetrate the wood than a sharp one. The angle of divergence on the wedge will be a factor as to the efficiency, also.

There is WAY too much complexity to this problem to attempt a simple math solution. It would take lots of calculus and years of experimentation to establish many different "constants" before you could ever predict mathematically (with accuracy) how much force is required to run a wedge of any given design.

Of course, a little experience and some good judgment will get you close enough for most problems.

 

[leon]

firewood

So your saying the drag created by the four way
wedge with the wood scraping and screaming
over the wings and the small bulbs welded to
the edges of the wings to break the split faster
is not there?

I guess The 23 cords of tight grained 2nd growth
white oak I have is different.

 

[pdqdl]

I don't recall bringing that topic up.

I'm just saying that applying simple area calculations to a much more complex issue will only lead to erroneous conclusions.

The screaming and scraping is caused by the squeezing force of the log and the coefficient of friction specific to the log and wedge being used, not by the area of the wedge. The mathematics for total friction don't even have a variable for area. Friction is independent of surface area. You can look it up and see for yourself.