Meteor Cylinder Quality

[Rudolf73]

I've been reading all of the comments made about aftermarket kits in general in a few recent threads on the topic as many of the replies and comments have stated that all of the aftermarket kits need work. That is absolute crap and if they are saying that then they haven't been looking at the right kits or more than likely have their blinkers on - I have sold well over 100 kits to people that have done exactly the "Plug And Play" routine with no problems and absolutely no complaints. A number of these are professional users including numerous MS260 44.7mm kits to Australian arborists. Despite selling over 100 kits around 30 extras went out for free to other AS members to test on saw models that I didn't have access to. Some of these kits did have issues such as the early gen MS660BB kits and the early 372XP BB kits. I worked very closely with my supplier to ensure that a different manufacturer was found. Sure I ended up paying an extra USD$10 a kit but it was well worth it and these models are now some of the nicest AM kits you'll see.
I did have one MS460 BB kit sold on eBay that hooked a ring and I replaced that immediately - it was one that got past my "Quality Control" program with a dodgey exhaust bevel (I don't sell those kits anymore).
As far as my Caber ring comments I meant the general aftermarket kits like mine, not necessarily Meteor. If the Meteors come with Cabers then that is definately a positive over other aftermarket P&C's
There are a number of good saw builders on AS who aren't sponsors and don't post threads every 5 minutes on their work that are building some pretty mean and reliable saws with aftermarket top ends - not necessarily supplied by me either. A number of them are Bailey's kits. I won't name them here but I'm sure they'll chime in if they want to.
I don't blame you for replying like you did watsonr as a certain thread conveniently appeared within a few minutes of yourself and Mastermind starting to advertise the Meteor kits.

I think a few people are hoping that if you throw enough mud it will stick but I'm here to wipe some of that mud off. The old "supporting the Chinese" mentality also doesn't stack up considering the amount of Chinese made OEM gear now coming already fitted to big name saws. Has anybody noticed that the price of a new Stihl saw didn't drop despite the P&C not having Mahle stamped on the side any more and the fact the Zama carb has China printed all over it? Anybody know where the MS170's are made now? I hate the amount of Chinese gear flooding the world too but last time I checked aftermarket P&C's weren't ever made in the US or Australia...

Agreed, the vast majority of AM kit available are plug & play. If they weren't we would hear about a lot more failures. However this being AS where guys like to mod stuff, most members would probably prefer to "clean up" the ports in some of the daggy cylinders. I was also sceptical about the cylinders many years ago, but decided to try out one of the earlier baileys BB kits on an ex HD rental 6401. The cylinder was average to say the least, but I needed a bigger saw at the time and decided to just put the cylinder straight on and go and finish the job. There was a slight clearance issue with the piston - probably would of ran okay but I fixed it while I had it apart. The saw runs fine - pulls a 28" bar and 8 pin without any hassle. When I get a chance, I well run it against a stock 7900 but I'm guessing it will be close. All up not bad for $100 on a cheap saw and the quality of the kits have definitely improved since then.

If the ports are in good shape and reasonably clean, the nikasil coating is good quality and piston is Meteor with caber rings (caber is part of the Meteor company) you really can't go wrong... (IMHO)


Regarding the overall quality of of the Meteor cylinders... Meteor needs to put more pressure on the cylinder manufactures to improve manufacturing standards and QC. Other companies have done it so it is possible and Meteor has the market share to apply the necessary pressure on the manufactures. To those members who have direct contact with Meteor, might I suggest that they spend more time conversing directly with the manufacturer and less time with the middle men. A lot of information gets lost in translation - especially in the Asian countries. In China for example economies are largely based on "middle men" and it can be very difficult to actually get in contact with the real manufacture, but once you do almost anything is possible and I can speak from experience.

 

[LegDeLimber]

I wish circumstances and health would let me be a test monkey...

...for putting about 120 hours on the untouched AM top end.
and then look to see if any signs of ring catch and flutter,
any piston marks that align with with any specific areas of the ports.
is any plating suffering in those areas.
wear in the ring groves, relative to port chamfers.
how much wear in the areas of the ring ends
did the rings seem to be getting pushed more in one direction....etc.
-
an as to running "stock" vacuums , Do you mean people actually have one
that doesn't have a 90 deg elbow and a vinyl flutter thingy
hot glued into the inlet, so as to ad that cyclone action ????

[c'mon dang it, pleated kevlar is a pain to clean,Ya can't back wash it! ]

 

[edisto]

I haven't read every post in this thread so I have to ask. Do you sell these kits? If you sell these kits, that would mean you have a vested interest in shining a positive light on your product. There's nothing wrong with that, however this makes your opinion bias.

Not selling them when the competition does might bias an opinion too.

Opinions result in long and exciting threads that generate thousands of posts, but don't resolve anything.

Thus far, we have an improvement in the visible quality of the cylinder in question, with issues that are easily resolvable if you don't mind a little grinding.

What remains unresolved is how the cylinder will run out of the box, and how long will it last. We won't be getting an answer to the latter, although the anecdotal evidence suggests reliability is not an issue.

 

[MCW]

Not selling them when the competition does might bias an opinion too.

I agree and no matter how much it is sugar coated every work saw builder on AS is in competition with each other, friends or not. Most build good saws so the only way to get one up on the opposition is offer a cheaper alternative. God help us all if that cheaper alternative actually turns out to be quite OK

 

[gmax]

What the......?! :msp_blink:


I just saw this thread about 25 minutes ago for the first time. I just casually voted no (but without having a heavy stature on the word "NO" - it was more like "nah" than anything else). Then I went through and read through the whole thing.


Had I of read all this first, I never woulda voted...... :beat_brick:

I hope you never do Jury duty :msp_biggrin:

 

[blsnelling]

I want to make this very clear. This has nothing to do with competition, and Randy in particular. I'm not even taking work right now, and most of it is referred to Randy.

 

[edisto]

I want to make this very clear. This has nothing to do with competition, and Randy in particular. I'm not even taking work right now, and most of it is referred to Randy.

Brad, a lot of the poo storms you have caused could easily be interpreted that way, and that is how I used to interpret them.

I actually don't think it is about the money, but there are other things to compete for besides money...

 

[blsnelling]

How many ways do I have to say it? This had NOTHING to do with Randy. In no way does this have to do with any kind of competition. It has ONLY to do with the quality of these kits.

 

[DSS]

Which top end did you get from Matt? I've had a few and they've been good, but I didn't run any of them stock.

Yeah, thats the saw I got from you. I know you did some work to it, but early on someone said that the aftermarket top ends weren't capable of making any power, so I called bull####. I ran that saw yesterday and the torque is incredible. Good job for sure.

 

[SawTroll]

Agreed, the vast majority of AM kit available are plug & play. .....

Most have to be, if not the sales would stop soon enough.

However, that doesn't mean that they will perform as well as the OEM ones, even some BB kits are likely produce less power than the OEM, unless someone that knows what he is doing at least correct the porting (that often is sub-standard), and clean them up. Then the question is where the borderline between clean-up/correcting and actual porting work is.....
Some are so badly concieved in the first place, that they never can be made into even decent performers

My impression at this point is that they often are better suited to be ported than to "plug and play" - but I am surely not an expert...

 

[thomas1]

How many ways do I have to say it? This had NOTHING to do with Randy. In no way does this have to do with any kind of competition. It has ONLY to do with the quality of these kits.

Keep saying it, eventually you'll believe it.

 

[watsonr]

Was the renewed anxiety against the quality of Meteor cylinders caused by my business being advertised here... since it's not a competition with Randy... is that it? Seems quite coincidental on this end also... but having no intent to defraud or harm anyone... lets move on.

How about the fact I push these kits on unsuspecting buyers as you quoted...I'm not really sure where that even came from Brad. I have them listed in my signature, just as the Arborist site rules say I can... having paid my sponsor fees. I even have a nice little button that blinks Meteor kits and chainsaw parts (extra charge of course) somewhere up there. In the last 3 months since becoming a sponsor I may have said that I offered a kit at reasonable pricing to my competition in two threads and left it at that, didn't think I was pushing them on unsuspecting buyers that couldn't make up there own minds. Most of the guys here send me PMs asking for information..... seems they are selling by themselves without any extra help. I could have started a thread announcing my business and considered it, but why?

I sell other things besides Meteor Cylinder kits, hope your not trying to hurt my business Brad, that wouldn't be very nice... even if you were my competition. I need to get the word out just like you did when you first started your business and felt that this site was a great opportunity to sell aftermarket kits at prices lower than the competition and I still believe that.

An affordable solution to OEM!

WOW, that has a good ring to it, I should trademark that!

 

[blsnelling]

No, my goal isn't to hurt you or your business. That might be a result, but certainly isn't my desire. My only goal, as I've stated over and over, is to see the quality of these kits much better than what they are.

IMHO, it's nothing more than a marketing ploy, that Meteor is putting their name brand on these kits, when under the covers is the same cylinder, from the same plant, that's being sold by lesser respected brands. I expect better than this from Meteor. It was you for sale thread in the chainsaw forum that was the straw that broke the camels back. If they're going to be pushed like that, then i felt the user community should know what's really in that box. Again, my rant isn't against just Meteor, but all inferior AM cylinders.

Again, this was not personal against you or anyone else. You simply happen to be closely associated with my target.

I'm sure this will all be twisted out of context, perhaps not by you, but it is the truth. As we've already seen though, once the mob comes out and starts to riot, they don't care about the truth.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

I hope you never do Jury duty :msp_biggrin:

Hah! Well I walked right into that one didn't I....?!


DERP!

 

[edisto]

If they're going to be pushed like that, then i felt the user community should know what's really in that box.

Wouldn't that involve actually looking in the box?

 

[thomas1]

No, my goal isn't to hurt you or your business. That might be a result, but certainly isn't my desire. My only goal, as I've stated over and over, is to see the quality of these kits much better than what they are.

What do you want to see better? You haven't run the provided kit, you haven't measured the provided kit in any meaningful way. You drew some lines and spun the piston around in the cylinder and deemed the kit junk, until watsonr called you out on it and now you're going to do a review whenever you get around to it. Amazing how bashing them had to take place right after people were advertising them in their sigs, but actually seeing if they run well and are a good alternative can wait until you're not busy.

Check out this one. I was turned onto it by another AS sponsor. These have been gone through and are ready to go. LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm

Wait a second, isn't that exactly what Mastermind does? Okay for a lathe, but not for a cylinder?

I'm glad to know you don't have an issue using substandard equipment to work on other people's saws.

What, what's that? The lathe is okay because it works fine for your needs and was more cost effective than something else? Weird, I know of some p/c kits just like that, that are so bad, in your opinion, that you won't even allow your name to be associated with them. Even though you haven't actually run one on a saw.

Oh wait, there was a bunch of threads were you did run them and said they were great. Where did those threads go, they used to be so easy to find? The tears must have washed them away.

I'm sure this will all be twisted out of context, perhaps not by you, but it is the truth. As we've already seen though, once the mob comes out and starts to riot, they don't care about the truth.

No need to twist it, you've made yourself very clear. Suddenly when people don't agree with you they don't care about the truth and are a mob. If you don't care about the truth and are by yourself what does that make you? I'll give you a hint, look inward not outward.

oop:

 

[Scooterbum]

Originally Posted by blsnelling
I'm sure this will all be twisted out of context, perhaps not by you, but it is the truth. As we've already seen though, once the mob comes out and starts to riot, they don't care about the truth.

Really???????
I hate the way this word truth keeps getting thrown around.

How many remember the busted cylinder fins mess?

 

[blsnelling]

Wow, you're really reaching for that one. That was an honest mistake and was made right. You're simply making my point, with a total disregard for the truth.

Besides, that whole thing was set up anyway. That saw is still running strong today.

 

[parrisw]

Your completely right if you are a homeowner joe you can probably get enough longevity in one of those aftermarket kits that u wouldn't notice any lack of quality in the quality. I guess your right at home with dodge so I see how u don't mind AM P&C kits. My best buddy was a master mopar mechanic for 22 years and loved dodge...but he can't even stomach buying one anymore. I can't remember what era of dodge minivan, but he could change the tranny in 45 mins because of how many times he had to do it. You don't live in as cold of a climate as us so u may not have seen all the tranny issues we have with dodges, but their trucks that came out in 94' were no better. If u like dodge trucks and are happy with them you will be very happy with subordinate chainsaw p&c's too.

LOL, aint that the truth, I've been a mechanic for 15 years, and the big 3 can certainly turn out some JUNK!! I'm very biased on thr cars that I'll buy.

Yeah, thats the saw I got from you. I know you did some work to it, but early on someone said that the aftermarket top ends weren't capable of making any power, so I called bull####. I ran that saw yesterday and the torque is incredible. Good job for sure.

Right should of known thats the one you were talking about!

 

[Tzed250]

No, my goal isn't to hurt you or your business. That might be a result, but certainly isn't my desire. My only goal, as I've stated over and over, is to see the quality of these kits much better than what they are.

IMHO, it's nothing more than a marketing ploy, that Meteor is putting their name brand on these kits, when under the covers is the same cylinder, from the same plant, that's being sold by lesser respected brands. I expect better than this from Meteor. It was you for sale thread in the chainsaw forum that was the straw that broke the camels back. If they're going to be pushed like that, then i felt the user community should know what's really in that box. Again, my rant isn't against just Meteor, but all inferior AM cylinders.

If it is that important to you Brad, start your own importation/distribution/retail company that sells AM cylinder kits. If startup capital is a problem just sell the Cadillac and get an affordable DD. I'm sure an extremely bright fellow like yourself could make a going concern happen fairly quickly. After that the whole AS community would be eternally thankful.

If you say that you have no desire to undertake such a task then maybe it is best that you don't screw with a man's ability to provide for himself or his family. Especially at this time of year.

My dear mother always told me that road to Hell was paved with good intentions.