Might as well have been a cliff

[PTS]

I looked at a real crappy job today. The tree that they want removed is on a side hill that is so steep that you can not physically walk up it without using your hands on the ground and helping yourself along. They at some point put limestone rocks down sporadically which are all loose making the terrain horrible. Right below the tree is a large dock and a boat that is stored for the winter. There is absolutely no way to get any equipment close to the tree so climbing is the only option. Their driveway looks out at the very top of the tree which is 80-90 ft. tall and that is as close as you can get with the equipment. Also there is no tall trees around that you could hook up a zip line.

So here is my dilemma. How do you get the tree from the ground to the chipper safely. I thought about skidding them up the hill with a wench but the loose rock will certainly roll down and hit the dock or boat. I thought I could wait until the river freezes, risk driving my chipper truck to the job on the ice which is around 2000 feet from the nearest boat ramp or bite the bullet and hall the whole tree up the hill using the steep steps.

The river sound like the way to go as far as ease, however, the risk of the ice is scary. The tree is around 5 feet from the water so it would be convenient.

Going the other route you have to hall a whole tree up a very steep set of steps and find yourself out of commission after one trip. To top it all off the tree has a base of around 45 inches diameter. Nice huh.

Crane is out... to far away and house in the way

I am sure you would all like pictures but some bonehead left his camera at the office and the drive is a considerable distance to make another trip.

Just thought you all may have ran across similar problems and came up with a possible solution

 

[rbtree]

:Eye: Can I hire her when you're done?!!

Sorry, I just had to laugh at that one....


Yep, hillside jobs can be a challenge! If you can fix an elevated anchor at the top of the hill, you could set up a travelling carriage on a fixed line, anchored to the trunk of your target tree (leave it up as high as is feasible), tension the line, and pull up the loads on it, using a travelling block, with a separate line. You'll need a back line to keep the carriage down the hill and allow the load to be winched up into the carriage. I'll put up a video for ya, give me a few minutes.

Here's a pic, plus a link to an old thread with a discusssion and another pic
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=17201

 

[PTS]

Sorry I totally missed that. (wench)

 

[Jim1NZ]

Helicopter!!!

 

[Lumberjack]

How thick will the ice get? I doubt you insurance would cover your truck falling through the ice, I could be wrong, it would be a funny claim to explain though.

A picture would help alot, if you could drop the tree in the water, then skid it up the hill (with what depends on them pictures). Perhaps smaller sections. A sled would be nice to skid peices up with as well.

Pics!

 

[Mike Barcaskey]

fish habitat

 

[Lumberjack]

Thats what I was thinking, flop it in the water and use a john boat and or hip wadders to get everything below the water.

But then you got that boat and shed down there....

 

[PTS]

The dock is totally in the way and so it the boat. This part of the river is a huge boating recreational area so stuff in the water wouldn't be permitted. There is a group that governs the area. Multi million dollar homes in a lot of cases.

 

[rbtree]

Here's two videos. Notice, in the first one, the load is not yet up against the pulley, thus the need for a back line to hold the pulley back. (a similar high lead logging operation uses a carriage assembly that can be locked anywhere onto the mainline. The back line would be the haulback.

Warning, these are large files, sorry. Windows Movie Maker garbles the audio when it compresses the files and changes the format. I've gotta learn how to work with videos. Better software is needed. Ulead? Premiere? I know it's pricey...

susette d, misc. 011.avi

susette d, misc. 010.avi

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

"Army Rigging Manual"......Hahaha!, come on Tom! Just hire a logger.

 

[treeman82]

Why not skid it across / down the river with a snow mobile and or a quad?

 

[treeseer]

First things first. what is the client's goal? Is there a way to meet that goal without removing the tree? If it's viewshed, then window-pune, etc.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Tom, you act like a logger knows nothing about setting riggin. Think twice manual boy! The logger was slinging riggin way before the arbo industry was even in existence. The old loggers were like ants. They could move anything with some cable and a couble of blocks and didn't need a manual. If you want some real experience go work on a yarder setting, or a high lead show. I have, and learned the hard way, but at least I can say I've really done it! How about you big Mouth!

 

[Sizzle-Chest]

Tom, you act like a logger knows nothing about setting riggin. Think twice manual boy! The logger was slinging riggin way before the arbo industry was even in existence. The old loggers were like ants. They could move anything with some cable and a couble of blocks and didn't need a manual. If you want some real experience go work on a yarder setting, or a high lead show. I have, and learned the hard way, but at least I can say I've really done it! How about you big Mouth!

actually, you are the one who sounds like you know nothing about setting rigging. those old loggers you speak of actually left the type of trees PTS is describing. outlaws/residuals were too difficult to take out either safely or successfully. And i'm unclear why you think that having worked in the bite makes you an authority on complicated tree removals in urban environments. Tom is making a very good point that the two jobs have very different applications. Obviously a logger would have less success removing that tree than an arborist or else home-owners would be calling timber fallers to remove trees.

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Yep, hillside jobs can be a challenge! If you can fix an elevated anchor at the top of the hill, you could set up a travelling carriage on a fixed line, anchored to the trunk of your target tree (leave it up as high as is feasible), tension the line, and pull up the loads on it, using a travelling block, with a separate line. You'll need a back line to keep the carriage down the hill and allow the load to be winched up into the carriage. I'll put up a video for ya, give me a few minutes.

Here's a pic, plus a link to an old thread with a discusssion and another pic
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=17201

For your information Tom, rbtree's post describes what a portable yarder is! I've worked under a pick-up towable unit several times. That little yarder would do exactly what this guy wants to do. Get out your manual Tom, you can find out how and where to cut the tail holds, where to hang the blocks and then start running his haywire! hahaha! Good Luck and Good Reading!

 

[rbtree]

Tom, here's that link, but it hasn't worked for some time now...

http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/logging_advisor/manual/yarding/cableyardingsystem.html

Dennis, you asked for the grilling that Tom gave you by the way you came on in such a flip way...


And yes, that Simpson winch came from Tom, who has been an innovator and leading edge arborist for over a quarter century. Ther is no doubt that no one has had more to offer those of us with lots to learn than Tom, and since the spread of the worldwide web, his audience has mushroomed.

Now you idiots kiss and make up, ya hear!!

 

[a_lopa]

good thread!! dumb ass loggers i love it!!!!

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

actually, you are the one who sounds like you know nothing about setting rigging. those old loggers you speak of actually left the type of trees PTS is describing. outlaws/residuals were too difficult to take out either safely or successfully. And i'm unclear why you think that having worked in the bite makes you an authority on complicated tree removals in urban environments. Tom is making a very good point that the two jobs have very different applications. Obviously a logger would have less success removing that tree than an arborist or else home-owners would be calling timber fallers to remove trees.

Many, many outlaws have been cut! and the ones I know about were cut by timberfallers not arbos! You know sizzel chest, some people just won't make a pimple on a fallers a$$, so what's your experience? BTW sizzel, I've done quite a few residential tree jobs, jacked and pulled many big trees, work under the yarders and helicopters, and know a little about slingin rigging. I wonder, does living in Oregon make you an authority about anything? hahaha! Later

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

Dennis, you asked for the grilling that Tom gave you by the way you came on in such a flip way...

No biggy Roger! Tom just gets a little up tight when you teaze him about his Army Manual! hahaha!

 

[Ekka]

You know, there was thread in the Chainsaw section about tractors in the woodlot, it was moved from commercial tree care to there although it has stuff all to do with chainsaws and should be in the equipment thread.

The same pack of clowns made snide remarks to which I engaged, there was outcry, dont spam our thread, get lost Ekka, and now look at the clowns, always the same lot.

This is a real problem the poster has here and we want solutions not bickering. Personally, I over quote these types of jobs so if I do get them then there's plenty of money to find solutions ... and a helicopter is a sensible choice.

You have to rig the tree down, poor rope guy is gonna go butt up for sure, debri and rocks etc are gonna slide down hill. The right way to do this is get 2 climbers in that tree and start rigging slings for a chopper. He's only gotta fly them 50' up hill. If the job was bid correctly the money would be there for this. If it was bid for an unsafe hillside event ... you're a fool. Why risk your workers, your crew to an unknown?

I watch so many other industries in difficult locations and guess what ... they get the machinery in to do the job. But here we are trying to do what, save money for the customer to bust ourselves to get a stupid tree up a hill.

Open the yellow pages and look up some helo guys etc and run your business in such a fashion that when its such a bad job you can walk away or do it right. You got a 90' tree with 45" DBH.

Listen to what you are saying, boat, dock, million dollar houses, recreational waterfront area ... and your thinking of rooting around on a cliff? Mate, see the light, get a helo or walk away.