MS 462 R vs MS 462 R C-M (m-tronic vs traditional carb)

[bwalker]

I'm not holding my breath either. If I had a nickel for every "battery breakthrough" that's announced I'd be a millionaire. Most of them are just academics who did some decent research and are looking for a production partner to make it real.

But what we're seeing today with solid state is real companies solving production problems. Early versions are out, mass production for commodity items should be in ~10 years if it follows typical battery technology patterns. The demand is there which drives the incentive and investment to make it happen.

Solid state battery technology is far from proven and isn't in a single vehicle currently.
I remember back in the early 00's When I worked in the auto industry fuel cell research was huge and "the next big thing". It went no where. Before that 2 stroke engine research in the auto industry was huge and that didn't go anywhere either.

 

[bwalker]

I don't know whether I worded it incorrectly or you misunderstood it, but let me clarify it. What I tried to say is that today's battery technology is already nearing the theoretical limit of storage density. I have seen this in print multiple times from multiple sources. If you want to search for it, be my guest. That in no way is changing the subject. The fact that there is a limit is unquestionable. The fact that battery technology can never get to the energy storage capacity of hydrocarbon fuel is also unquestionable. But the real barrier is cost. One could run all day with a battery-powered saw if one had enough batteries on hand. But at today's cost, that would require an investment of thousands of dollars in batteries. If battery costs could get down to, say $25 for an 80 volt, 5-10 amp-hour battery, that would be a game changer. But high output would also be needed. Using the MS500i as an example, that saw puts out 5 kW of power. Assuming an electric motor at 90% efficient, and an 80 volt power supply, a battery would need to put out at least 69 amps of current to match the 500i. They may be able to get there, but I am not sure about heat dissipation in the battery. That could be a major engineering challenge. And all this needs to be done without adding excessive weight. If that can be done, electric saws would be more viable. But climate change should not be the real driver.

The article @Hermio is referring to:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2WbadVVrFCqKpOh6okddFE

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

Solid state battery technology is far from proven and isn't in a single vehicle currently.
I remember back in the early 00's When I worked in the auto industry fuel cell research was huge and "the next big thing". It went no where. Before that 2 stroke engine research in the auto industry was huge and that didn't go anywhere either.

No one in this thread said it was proven or mentioned anything about use in vehicles.

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

The article @Hermio is referring to:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2WbadVVrFCqKpOh6okddFE

I see nothing in that paper relevant to this discussion except that NASA says they're interested in using solid state batteries.

 

[bwalker]

No one in this thread said it was proven or mentioned anything about use in vehicles.

Believe it or not the primary driver of battery tech is the automotive world..

 

[Hirdatron]

No matter how good batteries get, nothing will ever match the sound, feel, smell, and just the pure joy of an internal combustion engine!

 

[Michael Bradshaw]

I went with the standard MS 462. While I was doing my research, I found that the MS 462 and the MS 462C weight the same, they both make the same horsepower and they both will accept the same length bars. I would be very surprised if you could not order the wrap handle by itself and mount it on your saw. I'm using the standard handle on my saw so I do not know if there would be any problems mounting the wrap handle.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I went with the standard MS 462. While I was doing my research, I found that the MS 462 and the MS 462C weight the same, they both make the same horsepower and they both will accept the same length bars. I would be very surprised if you could not order the wrap handle by itself and mount it on your saw. I'm using the standard handle on my saw so I do not know if there would be any problems mounting the wrap handle.

I think you will find that the MS462 has a limiter on the high end adjustment on the carb and it will come tuned all the way against the CCW or rich end of the adjustment limiter . So, you are really not going to adjust anything. Not necessarily a bad thing. Certainly would not suggest leaning it out.

I have had a couple of MS462C repairs, usually needing a solenoid replacement. The last one I worked on just had the screen in the carb completely stopped up with some white looking stuff ??? He had changed to some felt type fuel filter.

Seems to me the mTronic issues I have dealt with were from not keeping foreign material out of the solenoid valve.

Remember when I was a kid old FarmAll tractors had cast in to the gas tank cap.. Buy Clean Fuel Keep It Clean

 

[Michael Bradshaw]

I think you will find that the MS462 has a limiter on the high end adjustment on the carb and it will come tuned all the way against the CCW or rich end of the adjustment limiter . So, you are really not going to adjust anything. Not necessarily a bad thing. Certainly would not suggest leaning it out.

I have had a couple of MS462C repairs, usually needing a solenoid replacement. The last one I worked on just had the screen in the carb completely stopped up with some white looking stuff ??? He had changed to some felt type fuel filter.

Seems to me the mTronic issues I have dealt with were from not keeping foreign material out of the solenoid valve.

Remember when I was a kid old FarmAll tractors had cast in to the gas tank cap.. Buy Clean Fuel Keep It Clean

I have heard other people say that they have had problems with their solenoid valves, that they need replacement. Usually because of foreign material in the gas. From those same people they say it really dose not take much to gum up the solenoid because the clearance in those solenoids is very tight. I have yet to have any problems with the one M-Tronic that I own. (Knock on wood) An MS 192 TC, I have always used non ethanol gas in all my small engines, (2-cycle and 4-cycle) so I hope that helps.
When I was a kid, I remember my father had the funnel, I think it was a Colmen funnel. It was made of metal (eighter steel or aluminum) but it had a blue felt type material that the gas went through. Other than cleaning around the gas fill cap, do you think that pouring your gas-oil through a filter as you are filling up your chainsaw help reduce the foreign material from getting into the solenoid?
Your right about the limiter on the carburetor adjustment screws on my MS462. I have not had a bunch on free time to see how and or remove those limiters, but even if I did take off the one on the high end, I don't think I'd play with it. The saw is set up to produce 6.0 horsepower without over revving the motor, so I don't think I really need any more,,,Lol. Maybe someday.
I understand why Stihl puts those screw limiters on their saw's, I think it's to keep people who might not understand what they're doing from running their saw too lean. But for guys like us, we should have the option to have them taken off at the dealership. IMO. The Stihl MS 462 is a "Professional Saw for Professionals" the more I think about it they should have never been put on the carburetor in the first place. When you make your living in the forest with a saw in your hands, you should be able to adjust your saw however you need to in order to be productive and profitable. In My Opinion. Have a good night, Take care.

 

[SteveMcCooper]

Does anyone here have both saws and prefer one over the other? Did I make a mistake purchasing the traditional carb?

I've been trying to get my hands on a MS 462 R C-M (wrap handle/m-tronic) for the better part of a year, but my local dealers kept telling me they were "un-orderable"....I'm just outside of Boston, MA. I would check with 3 different dealers, every 2-3 weeks to see if they were back in stock. Finally I got a call that an MS 462 R (traditional carb) was orderable so I decided to get one. I picked it up Friday night. Should I have kept waiting for a MS462C and the m-tronic carb? There were plenty of non-wrap handle 462c's available but I wasn't going to pay extra to switch one over to a full wrap handle.

View attachment 1062893

Hello All,
I've been following Arborsite for several months now and have learned much. I appreciate the time many have taken to provide their advice and expertise and I admit there's always opportunity to keep learning. I have a few decades of chainsaw experience, although always as side jobs and never commercially. I started out with a inherited vintage (early 50's?) Lombard with a 16:1 mix, a slightly newer Homelite (1960's?), as well as a few second-hander Remmingtons (early 70's) and even an Eager Beaver that could almost double as a large key fob. My first new and still my go-to saw is a 1983 Stihl 041 with a 20" bar. It starts and runs like it was still a pup. My backup and for smaller work is an 026, also meticulously maintained and running well. I perform 100% of maintenance. I've never had to do so on my own saws, but I've rebuilt a couple of friend's chainsaws who didn't understand the risks of lean tuning or oil-starved fuel. I figured after 40 years I can justify treating myself to a new saw, partly because I anticipate 041 parts will get tougher and tougher to acquire, but honestly, mostly because of no defendable reason other than I just want one and that my wife said I could . I've settled on the MS 462. My use cases include, for example, dropping an occasional 20-25" diameter oak, pine or beech (damn those nematodes) and subsequent bucking for firewood. My 026 will handle the smaller stuff.

Enough of the intro. I've read dozens of forums discussing the pros and cons of M-Tronic. There's clearly a mix of facts, hands-on experience, emotion and a touch of Luddism in the conversations. I understand the tech well. I understand that Stihl has made significant improvements since the early version(s) that had solenoid issues. I understand the additional minor operational steps associated with starting/stopping/calibration etc., none of which would be an issue for me. I'm not afraid of new tech (my formal career was engineering in the Semiconductor Production Equipment market). I'm skilled and comfortable with carb maintenance/rebuilding/tuning. All of my side work is done at near sea level on the east coast. So here's my question to all, Greatest Gen to Boomers to GenXers to Zoomers, and given my experience and use cases: If you had the choice of an M-Tronic or a non-M-Tronic 462 that will be that last saw you ever purchase in that size class, which would you buy?

 

[huskihl]

Hello All,
I've been following Arborsite for several months now and have learned much. I appreciate the time many have taken to provide their advice and expertise and I admit there's always opportunity to keep learning. I have a few decades of chainsaw experience, although always as side jobs and never commercially. I started out with a inherited vintage (early 50's?) Lombard with a 16:1 mix, a slightly newer Homelite (1960's?), as well as a few second-hander Remmingtons (early 70's) and even an Eager Beaver that could almost double as a large key fob. My first new and still my go-to saw is a 1983 Stihl 041 with a 20" bar. It starts and runs like it was still a pup. My backup and for smaller work is an 026, also meticulously maintained and running well. I perform 100% of maintenance. I've never had to do so on my own saws, but I've rebuilt a couple of friend's chainsaws who didn't understand the risks of lean tuning or oil-starved fuel. I figured after 40 years I can justify treating myself to a new saw, partly because I anticipate 041 parts will get tougher and tougher to acquire, but honestly, mostly because of no defendable reason other than I just want one and that my wife said I could . I've settled on the MS 462. My use cases include, for example, dropping an occasional 20-25" diameter oak, pine or beech (damn those nematodes) and subsequent bucking for firewood. My 026 will handle the smaller stuff.

Enough of the intro. I've read dozens of forums discussing the pros and cons of M-Tronic. There's clearly a mix of facts, hands-on experience, emotion and a touch of Luddism in the conversations. I understand the tech well. I understand that Stihl has made significant improvements since the early version(s) that had solenoid issues. I understand the additional minor operational steps associated with starting/stopping/calibration etc., none of which would be an issue for me. I'm not afraid of new tech (my formal career was engineering in the Semiconductor Production Equipment market). I'm skilled and comfortable with carb maintenance/rebuilding/tuning. All of my side work is done at near sea level on the east coast. So here's my question to all, Greatest Gen to Boomers to GenXers to Zoomers, and given my experience and use cases: If you had the choice of an M-Tronic or a non-M-Tronic 462 that will be that last saw you ever purchase in that size class, which would you buy?

You managed to keep your 041 alive all those years. I would buy the adjustable carb 462.

 

[ericm979]

If you had the choice of an M-Tronic or a non-M-Tronic 462

Assuming they're the same price or close to it, Mtronic.

I have both regular carb saws and Mtronic saws and I know how to tune carbs. I like how the Mtronics never need tuning. That's one less thing I have to think about. I have had zero problems with the Mtronics.

 

[bwalker]

At this point I won't buy a saw without Mtronic.
For most guys it's a huge benefit because evidently tuning carbs is black magic for ..

 

[Michael Bradshaw]

I was recently in a similar situation, I was looking for a new saw. I looked at M-tronic but when I decided to pick it up I went with what I knew best. The M-Tronic saws are fine runners, I decided very basically, the more parts you have on a machine, the more that could go wrong. I went with the carburetor version of the MS 462. Its what I know, but if you do not want to dink around with adjustments any more then the M-Tronic is the way to go. I guess you fire it up and let it run for 90 seconds and its ready to go, it will all so be good for the saw to warm up during that time so your not running it full bore while it's cold.

 

[sean donato]

Hello All,
I've been following Arborsite for several months now and have learned much. I appreciate the time many have taken to provide their advice and expertise and I admit there's always opportunity to keep learning. I have a few decades of chainsaw experience, although always as side jobs and never commercially. I started out with a inherited vintage (early 50's?) Lombard with a 16:1 mix, a slightly newer Homelite (1960's?), as well as a few second-hander Remmingtons (early 70's) and even an Eager Beaver that could almost double as a large key fob. My first new and still my go-to saw is a 1983 Stihl 041 with a 20" bar. It starts and runs like it was still a pup. My backup and for smaller work is an 026, also meticulously maintained and running well. I perform 100% of maintenance. I've never had to do so on my own saws, but I've rebuilt a couple of friend's chainsaws who didn't understand the risks of lean tuning or oil-starved fuel. I figured after 40 years I can justify treating myself to a new saw, partly because I anticipate 041 parts will get tougher and tougher to acquire, but honestly, mostly because of no defendable reason other than I just want one and that my wife said I could . I've settled on the MS 462. My use cases include, for example, dropping an occasional 20-25" diameter oak, pine or beech (damn those nematodes) and subsequent bucking for firewood. My 026 will handle the smaller stuff.

Enough of the intro. I've read dozens of forums discussing the pros and cons of M-Tronic. There's clearly a mix of facts, hands-on experience, emotion and a touch of Luddism in the conversations. I understand the tech well. I understand that Stihl has made significant improvements since the early version(s) that had solenoid issues. I understand the additional minor operational steps associated with starting/stopping/calibration etc., none of which would be an issue for me. I'm not afraid of new tech (my formal career was engineering in the Semiconductor Production Equipment market). I'm skilled and comfortable with carb maintenance/rebuilding/tuning. All of my side work is done at near sea level on the east coast. So here's my question to all, Greatest Gen to Boomers to GenXers to Zoomers, and given my experience and use cases: If you had the choice of an M-Tronic or a non-M-Tronic 462 that will be that last saw you ever purchase in that size class, which would you buy?

Mtronic/auto tune I don't personally see any down side and I've had one or the other version since 2012...

 

[SteveMcCooper]

Hello All, Thanks for your inputs. On average, based on replies to my post as well as other discussions, it appears to be a personal preference where neither model is exceptional over the other, especially if carb tuning is second nature to the owner. Given that there are surely professional arborists, loggers, etc on this website, I suppose there'd be a more intense support or rejection of M-Tronic saws if there was a dramatic performance or reliability difference between M-Tronic and non-M-Tronic implementations. There seems to be minimal issues with the current generation of M-Tronic systems. I appreciate your patience and thoughtful answers for what must have become a tired topic since the intro of M-Tronic. So what am I going to purchase? If my local dealer has a non-M-Tronic in stock, that'll be my choice. If not, then an M-Tronic. I doubt I'll even think about it while its in my hands and eating through wood.