The language of a few to many Thunderhead IPA...
Thunderhead is good stuff. I tend to like really hoppy beers
MS290 Performance
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Thunderhead is good stuff. I tend to like really hoppy beers
ChuckinOhio
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Chuck
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Maybe you didn't understand my post.
Why would anyone compare two saws, one costing almost twice the price, and not mention price??? That was my question for Sawtroll. When people bring up the weight, power output or vibes of the 290, the specs are very good for a saw costing less than $400.
No, I don't operate a 290 or a 361 on a daily basis. I had a 310 for several years and do own two 034's but that's irrelevant.
Sawtroll said the MS290 is a bad saw, your argument is with him, not me. I think the 290 is a fine saw for it's intended use and price.
NYH1
Tacticle Chainsaw Operator.
Sawtroll has a lot of good information about chain saws. One thing he has a problem with though is comparing apples to apples. He knows and talks a lot about specs, but never talks about prices.
The MS290 is a good saw for it's intended user. To a lot of people the MS290 is better value then the MS361. Why, it cost almost half as much. To a lot of people that's very important. Most people who buy a MS290 have no reason to buy a MS361. They'll be cutting a few face cords of firewood a year, maybe using it to clean up after storms and such. They don't need a $600 plus saw. If they don't mind spending the money on a MS361 that's great.
One thing to keep in mind is that Stihl sells a lot more "occasional use" and "mid-range" saws then they do pro saws. I'm sure Husky is the same way. If it wasn't for the "lower end saws" there probably wouldn't be any "upper end saws". Some people just don't get this though!
The MS290 is a good saw for it's intended user. To a lot of people the MS290 is better value then the MS361. Why, it cost almost half as much. To a lot of people that's very important. Most people who buy a MS290 have no reason to buy a MS361. They'll be cutting a few face cords of firewood a year, maybe using it to clean up after storms and such. They don't need a $600 plus saw. If they don't mind spending the money on a MS361 that's great.
One thing to keep in mind is that Stihl sells a lot more "occasional use" and "mid-range" saws then they do pro saws. I'm sure Husky is the same way. If it wasn't for the "lower end saws" there probably wouldn't be any "upper end saws". Some people just don't get this though!
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sawtroll has a lot of good information about chain saws. One thing he has a problem with though is comparing apples to apples. He knows and talks a lot about specs, but never talks about prices.
The MS290 is a good saw for it's intended user. To a lot of people the MS290 is better value then the MS361. Why, it cost almost half as much. To a lot of people that's very important. Most people who buy a MS290 have no reason to buy a MS361. They'll be cutting a few face cords of firewood a year, maybe using it to clean up after storms and such. They don't need a $600 plus saw. If they don't mind spending the money on a MS361 that's great.
One thing to keep in mind is that Stihl sells a lot more "occasional use" and "mid-range" saws then they do pro saws. I'm sure Husky is the same way. If it wasn't for the "lower end saws" there probably wouldn't be any "upper end saws". Some people just don't get this though!
Agreed. In fact, if I had the choice between 2 MS290's and a MS361, I'd take the 290's. I could cut twice as much wood if a buddy went with me. Unfortunately, none of my friends burn wood anymore and my dad is getting too old for that kind of work.
A couple months ago, I sent my 011 to a friends ranch in Idaho. It was labeled an "occasional user" saw. Sure, there are lighter more powerful saws out there, newer too. But that 011 cut firewood for me a number of years and was my in-the-tree saw. It did very well even though it was not a pro saw and I'm sure it will continue to be a good saw for many years. I have nothing against homeowner type saws, but don't give me a Pull-on.
Went that route once.I really hope Saw Troll does not think he's getting bashed. He is a great member ane great asset to the site. I doubt anyone will argue that.
On that note, I had a tough enough time convincing the wife that my MS290 was a good value at twice the price of my defunct Poulan. Nowayinell I could have justified the jump from a Lowes Poulan to a Stihl "pro" model in one jump. If it were not for the lower-end Stihls, I'd STILL be buying my saws at Lowes.
On that note, I had a tough enough time convincing the wife that my MS290 was a good value at twice the price of my defunct Poulan. Nowayinell I could have justified the jump from a Lowes Poulan to a Stihl "pro" model in one jump. If it were not for the lower-end Stihls, I'd STILL be buying my saws at Lowes.
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
Another thought...
Three models in the MS290/310/390 family is redundant bad business practice all around. The MS290 is a good saw, but is unneeded in the lineup.
It doesn't cost Stihl one penny more to make an MS310 than an MS290. The saws are identical with the exception of the piston, rings, cylinder, and ID plate. The 310 P/C (with its slightly bigger bore) doesn't cost a lick more to manufacture than the 290 P/C as they are the same design and use roughly the same amount of materials. They could easily discontinue the MS290 and sell the MS310 for the former price of the 290. That'd be a $50.00 savings for the consumer and Stihl would loose nothing. In fact, they'd gain sales.
The MS390 does cost Stihl a little more to make as is has the decomp valve. The foundry toolling for the jugs is definately paid for by now, so the only cost differnce between a 290/310 and a 390 is the few extra machining opperations on the cylinder, plus the cost of the decomp valve assembly (which is probably the same part Stihl uses on ALL their decomp equipped saws). Even with the usual business practice of marking up any production cost increase before passing it on to the consumer, the decomp valve still shouldn't add more than $50.00 to the price of the MS290 (meaning an MS390 should cost $50.00 more, NOT $120.00 than an MS290).
What this boils down to is that Stihl could easily sell the MS390 at the price point currently occupied by the MS310. This would move the MS390 farther away from the MS361 price so the two saws would no longer be competing with each other for sales. Again, they'd offset the profit per saw loss (about $70.00 over the MS310's current price) with increased volume.
OK Stihl. Take my advice and run with it!!!
-Retire the MS290 (with "Retiring after years of loyal service" ad hooplah)
-Price the MS310 at $329.95 with a 16" bar (with more big advertising hooplah)
-Price the MS390 at $379.95 with a 16" bar (with yet more ad hooplah)
-Send me an MS390 with an 18" bar, a hard case, and a few loops of RM and RS chain in appreciation for this excelent business advice!!!
Three models in the MS290/310/390 family is redundant bad business practice all around. The MS290 is a good saw, but is unneeded in the lineup.
It doesn't cost Stihl one penny more to make an MS310 than an MS290. The saws are identical with the exception of the piston, rings, cylinder, and ID plate. The 310 P/C (with its slightly bigger bore) doesn't cost a lick more to manufacture than the 290 P/C as they are the same design and use roughly the same amount of materials. They could easily discontinue the MS290 and sell the MS310 for the former price of the 290. That'd be a $50.00 savings for the consumer and Stihl would loose nothing. In fact, they'd gain sales.
The MS390 does cost Stihl a little more to make as is has the decomp valve. The foundry toolling for the jugs is definately paid for by now, so the only cost differnce between a 290/310 and a 390 is the few extra machining opperations on the cylinder, plus the cost of the decomp valve assembly (which is probably the same part Stihl uses on ALL their decomp equipped saws). Even with the usual business practice of marking up any production cost increase before passing it on to the consumer, the decomp valve still shouldn't add more than $50.00 to the price of the MS290 (meaning an MS390 should cost $50.00 more, NOT $120.00 than an MS290).
What this boils down to is that Stihl could easily sell the MS390 at the price point currently occupied by the MS310. This would move the MS390 farther away from the MS361 price so the two saws would no longer be competing with each other for sales. Again, they'd offset the profit per saw loss (about $70.00 over the MS310's current price) with increased volume.
OK Stihl. Take my advice and run with it!!!
-Retire the MS290 (with "Retiring after years of loyal service" ad hooplah)
-Price the MS310 at $329.95 with a 16" bar (with more big advertising hooplah)
-Price the MS390 at $379.95 with a 16" bar (with yet more ad hooplah)
-Send me an MS390 with an 18" bar, a hard case, and a few loops of RM and RS chain in appreciation for this excelent business advice!!!
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bcorradi
Arboristsite.com Sponsor
Eccentric said:
Your correct. I don't know this for a fact, but I believe the MS310 is actually the model that is sold the least of the family.
Price of production wise the same thing can be said about the dolmar 6400 vs the 7900? Should dolmar get rid of the 6400 too and just price the 7900 lower?
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NYH1
Tacticle Chainsaw Operator.
I agree with you 100%. But until Stihl does what you (and I) think they should do..............the MS290 is still going to be their best selling chain saw!Three models in the MS290/310/390 family is redundant bad business practice all around. The MS290 is a good saw, but is unneeded in the lineup.
It doesn't cost Stihl one penny more to make an MS310 than an MS290. The saws are identical with the exception of the piston, rings, cylinder, and ID plate. The 310 P/C (with its slightly bigger bore) doesn't cost a lick more to manufacture than the 290 P/C as they are the same design and use roughly the same amount of materials. They could easily discontinue the MS290 and sell the MS310 for the former price of the 290. That'd be a $50.00 savings for the consumer and Stihl would loose nothing. In fact, they'd gain sales.
The MS390 does cost Stihl a little more to make as is has the decomp valve. The foundry toolling for the jugs is definately paid for by now, so the only cost differnce between a 290/310 and a 390 is the few extra machining opperations on the cylinder, plus the cost of the decomp valve assembly (which is probably the same part Stihl uses on ALL their decomp equipped saws). Even with the usual business practice of marking up any production cost increase before passing it on to the consumer, the decomp valve still shouldn't add more than $50.00 to the price of the MS290 (meaning an MS390 should cost $50.00 more, NOT $120.00 than an MS290).
What this boils down to is that Stihl could easily sell the MS390 at the price point currently occupied by the MS310. This would move the MS390 farther away from the MS361 price so the two saws would no longer be competing with each other for sales. Again, they'd offset the profit per saw loss (about $70.00 over the MS310's current price) with increased volume.
OK Stihl. Take my advice and run with it!!!
-Retire the MS290 (with "Retiring after years of loyal service" ad hooplah)
-Price the MS310 at $329.95 with a 16" bar (with more big advertising hooplah)
-Price the MS390 at $379.95 with a 16" bar (with yet more ad hooplah)
-Send me an MS390 with an 18" bar and a few loops of RM and RS chain in appreciation for this excelent business advice!!!
chowdozer
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not bashing Sawtroll. I think it would do all readers of this forum a service for comparison purposes to look at all aspects of the saw. Power, weight, price, vibe, etc. When you look at all those aspects, a 290 is a great value.
Why is it that when people compare the Dolmar 7900 with a 660, price is usually mentioned? Ditto for the 5100 and the 260. But yet some people chose to compare the 290 with the 361 and not even mention price? This overlooks one of the most desireable features of the 290.
I know that and you know that, I just want to make sure Troll knows that.
You know, you're right - I never noticed the double standard of Stihl-bashing.
I dont see how people can keep comparing the 7900 79cc to a 660 91.6cc (might be off a tad). I own both and there is no comparison in the big wood running 32" b+c. Also I can drop down to 16" b+c and my 7900 cant pull my highly aggressive chain without bogging, but now on my 066 it just keeps on eating wood without a bog.
But when it comes time to grab a saw and start working, I grab the 7900 because of the 3.5 lbs less weight.
THALL10326
The Champ
The 024's are nice, have two of them. I also have one older 029 and one newer 290. Though they are made quite differently the two 024's I have will not come close to sawing as fast as the 029 or 290 I have, and both the 024's run just fine. Seems you must have something not quite right with your 290 since it isn't sawing any better or faster per say than your 024. If its in tune and the chain is good and its oiling properly the 290 will buzz on by a 024 easily. Make sure its oiling good, lack of oil slows any saw to a crawl. If I were you I would have the rpms checked on it, it should run around 12,000 - 12,500 for good power.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Unveiling of the almighty MS290
windthrown
361 Junkie
Pull the 290???
Bad business practice? <blink blink> I fail to see your line of reasoning. I am sure that Stihl will never retire their BEST SELLING SAW. That would lead to lost sales revenue. You also say that the 290 is a good saw, yet they should pull the model. The Vulcan in me says that is rather... illogical.
I agree, however, that Stihl does have too many saws in their lineup. A merger of the lower end stuff into fewer models might be good. But hey, I am not working for Stihl, and they make and sell saws, trimmers, blowers and similar stuff and make a profit and have survived this long, so what the heck.
Bad business practice? <blink blink> I fail to see your line of reasoning. I am sure that Stihl will never retire their BEST SELLING SAW. That would lead to lost sales revenue. You also say that the 290 is a good saw, yet they should pull the model. The Vulcan in me says that is rather... illogical.
I agree, however, that Stihl does have too many saws in their lineup. A merger of the lower end stuff into fewer models might be good. But hey, I am not working for Stihl, and they make and sell saws, trimmers, blowers and similar stuff and make a profit and have survived this long, so what the heck.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
No matter how much flashing you do those 3 saws are lemons.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Apples to apples, price is irrelevant
No, I think I understand your original post, and reasoning. I do not agree with it. My beef is not with Troll. If he does not like the 290, and has reasons for it? OK, fine. He is in love with the 361. I like mine too. The 290 has its faults. The 361 also has its faults. If the Troll wants to compare the 290 and the 361, I think that is fine. They are similar saws in a lot of respects. But to say that the 290 is an econo junk car and the 361 is some type of exotic sports car? I think that is too far off base. Also to say that comparing 2 chainsaws in nearly the same power range designed for the same purpose is comparing apples to oranges? I think that is rediculous. Comparing the 290 to the 361 is apples to apples. One is a red delicious, sells for 50 cents a pound. The other is a Fuji, sells for a dollar a pound. Price is what is not relevant when directly comparing the performance of saws. I mean, are you gonna go out there into the woods, thinking, "Hey, because I paid more of less for the saw it will fell or buck that thar tree better or worse becasue of the price I paid for it..."???
Also to say that your not having experience with these saws is irrelevant is against basic Arboristsite policy and intention.opcorn:
Maybe you didn't understand my post.
Why would anyone compare two saws, one costing almost twice the price, and not mention price??? That was my question for Sawtroll. When people bring up the weight, power output or vibes of the 290, the specs are very good for a saw costing less than $400.
No, I don't operate a 290 or a 361 on a daily basis. I had a 310 for several years and do own two 034's but that's irrelevant.
Sawtroll said the MS290 is a bad saw, your argument is with him, not me. I think the 290 is a fine saw for it's intended use and price.
No, I think I understand your original post, and reasoning. I do not agree with it. My beef is not with Troll. If he does not like the 290, and has reasons for it? OK, fine. He is in love with the 361. I like mine too. The 290 has its faults. The 361 also has its faults. If the Troll wants to compare the 290 and the 361, I think that is fine. They are similar saws in a lot of respects. But to say that the 290 is an econo junk car and the 361 is some type of exotic sports car? I think that is too far off base. Also to say that comparing 2 chainsaws in nearly the same power range designed for the same purpose is comparing apples to oranges? I think that is rediculous. Comparing the 290 to the 361 is apples to apples. One is a red delicious, sells for 50 cents a pound. The other is a Fuji, sells for a dollar a pound. Price is what is not relevant when directly comparing the performance of saws. I mean, are you gonna go out there into the woods, thinking, "Hey, because I paid more of less for the saw it will fell or buck that thar tree better or worse becasue of the price I paid for it..."???
Also to say that your not having experience with these saws is irrelevant is against basic Arboristsite policy and intention.
opcorn:
windthrown
361 Junkie
I'll take 'em off your hands
Hey, if these saws are all too sour for you down there in ailartsuA, send 'em up here to me. I will even pay shipping. I will take all those boat anchors, Ford Escort, clunker junker Stihl 290/310/390 saws off your hands, clean them up and give them a good home cutting firewood here in the deep Oregon forest.
The Windthrown Home for Unwanted Mid-range Stihl Saws
Hey, if these saws are all too sour for you down there in ailartsuA, send 'em up here to me. I will even pay shipping. I will take all those boat anchors, Ford Escort, clunker junker Stihl 290/310/390 saws off your hands, clean them up and give them a good home cutting firewood here in the deep Oregon forest.
The Windthrown Home for Unwanted Mid-range Stihl Saws
THALL10326
The Champ
Well Ekka if anyone knows about lemons you should. Hows that website of yours going, the one with all the "flashing" color. See no matter how much you flash it up its still a lemon without posts. Now I bet you didn't like me calling your site a lemon did ya, well good. All the 290 owners on this site didn't like you calling their saw a lemon either. Goes to show be carefull of stones that you throw. Ole Hank had it right didn't he, good song.
windthrown
361 Junkie
Drought down under
"Down Under needs rain, lots of it! Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane all on water restrictions. Brisbane has only 23% water supply left in the dams. "
Better yet, I will trade you water for those bothersome 290/310/390 saws. We have had 50 inches of rain here since October 1, and the fields and creeks and streams here are all flooded. Effect of a mild El Nino year. Supposed to be a drought here in the PNW this year too, but they got that one wrong. More rain on the way here today...
Send your unwanted mid-range saws to us, and we will do Oregon rain dances for you. :rockn:
"Down Under needs rain, lots of it! Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane all on water restrictions. Brisbane has only 23% water supply left in the dams. "
Better yet, I will trade you water for those bothersome 290/310/390 saws. We have had 50 inches of rain here since October 1, and the fields and creeks and streams here are all flooded. Effect of a mild El Nino year. Supposed to be a drought here in the PNW this year too, but they got that one wrong. More rain on the way here today...
Send your unwanted mid-range saws to us, and we will do Oregon rain dances for you. :rockn:
