Eccentric
Mister Wizard
He also needs a Homelite 150, an Orline, and one of those 33-ish cc Frontier built saws to really round out the collection.
My New RedMac Saw
- Thread starter Chris-PA
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He also needs a Homelite 150, an Orline, and one of those 33-ish cc Frontier built saws to really round out the collection.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Sharp eye as usual Scott! I saw that and recognized it meant something but my brain is too addled from this cold I guess. That's a Microlight symbol, which means 0.043" if it's 3/8 or 0.050" if it's 0.325". But it has a loop of 91PX in it, which is 0.050" 3/8!
The bar is a single nose sprocket rivet.
I took some measurements, and the bar groove is about 0.055" on one side and 0.060" on the more worn side - which doesn't seem much different from a normal 0.050" Lo-Pro bar. It is definitely not an 0.325" bar. The drive links on the chain are just at 0.050" Near as I can figure, the saw was run that way (it definitely cut some wood), but that bar could not oil. So maybe it just wore the bar out until an 0.050" chain fit OK.
I still have not found a saw that uses an Oregon A095 Microlite bar and 60DL chain. Odd bird.
Anyway, I can't decide if I should run that bar and chain combination, as the chain circulates nice and smooth, or if I should try to get a 0.043" 60DL loop as it was intended to use. I could close the groove I guess, as it's probably not widened down at the bottom.
No Homies for me thanks - some of them are nice but I don't know anything about them. Although I would take one of those Frontier/Skil saws - that was my Dad's first saw and the first one I used and worked on. What the heck is an Orline?
EDIT: Just looked up the Orline - LOL, gear reduction at 1.34cu in?
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If you lay a straight edge across the side of the bar you can check for rail flare. The side of my unused A095 bar is about 1.9" at the oiler hole. The oiler hole is about 1.9" from the bar end. The oiler hole centerline is about .7" from the bar slot centerline. Bar slot is 8.2mm. Not long ago Bailey's had some A095 bars for sale and I remember that three of the saws that it fit were Husqvarna 335, 36, and 41.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Yup, those are the dimensions, so it's an A095 mount. And there isn't much external flanging.
So it carries the Micro-Lite symbol but it's 3/8 and 18", and they don't sell an 0.043" 18" bar (0.043" only goes up to 56DL, which won't fit on this bar). Further, it has a marking still visible on the other side that says "S6x" - I can't read the last digit, but S series chain is 0.050" Lo-Pro. Clearly it's S60, and there are not many saws that use 60DL - an uncommon (and uninteresting) Jenn Feng Mac MS1842AVCC is all I could find.
If I had to guess they decided to scrap the 0.043" 18" and resized these bars for 0.050" for use in some combo. Anyway, I'm going to run it with the 60DL 91PX loop that seems to fit it fine.
I was about to go up and try tuning the saw in some oak, but we just got a little downpour that soaked everything and raised the humidity to like 99.95%. Maybe later.
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
I was adding to Mark's comment about how you needed a plastic mini mac to round out your "most despised on AS" collection. I am NOT a fan of the Homelite 150, and many guys here feel the same way. A few guys like them however. They are NOT one of Homelite's better efforts IMHO. The little Orlines and Frontier saws (in whatever color badging you find) aren't too well liked here either.
Rookie1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nice review on an offbrand saw. I would agree about the parts availability and price being the drawback to tinkering with one. Rep sent.:msp_smile:
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Thanks!
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
Scott had asked me about the airbox inlet, and I though I saw how that worked but it turns out I was wrong. The inlet is this triangular opening in the corner:
which goes to a passage that leads to this opening between the handlebar and the clutch cover:
It's not near as effective as the Turbo scoop on my Husky 142, but then nothing else really is. That area behind the clutch get a lot of fine dust, which gets into the airbox and the filter isn't that good at stopping it.
Speaking of the 142, I really need to do a quantitative comparison of the two - both 40cc, both muffler modded, and both just about identical dimensions. But both very different in construction and character. The MS4018PAV feels lighter (and is supposed to be), and the 142 feels like it has more power, but then it has a shorter 0.043" bar on it. I won't really be able to measure fuel use, and the MS4018PAV has a smaller tank. Once it gets going the Mac really doesn't smell or smoke much at all.
I'll have to get a good log and get them both going to see how they compare. Maybe I'll swap the 142's bar and chain between the two.
which goes to a passage that leads to this opening between the handlebar and the clutch cover:
It's not near as effective as the Turbo scoop on my Husky 142, but then nothing else really is. That area behind the clutch get a lot of fine dust, which gets into the airbox and the filter isn't that good at stopping it.
Speaking of the 142, I really need to do a quantitative comparison of the two - both 40cc, both muffler modded, and both just about identical dimensions. But both very different in construction and character. The MS4018PAV feels lighter (and is supposed to be), and the 142 feels like it has more power, but then it has a shorter 0.043" bar on it. I won't really be able to measure fuel use, and the MS4018PAV has a smaller tank. Once it gets going the Mac really doesn't smell or smoke much at all.
I'll have to get a good log and get them both going to see how they compare. Maybe I'll swap the 142's bar and chain between the two.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I took today off mainly to do some house painting, but when I'd had my fill of that I decided to do a comparison to the 142. I dropped a just about dead 18" ash for the occasion.
The 142 is stock except for a modified 141 muffler. It started right up and was it's usually well behaved and frenetic self, reving like crazy and cutting fast. The MS4018 started up and was well behaved too - just slow. It didn't want to rev like th 142 and was pretty quiet compared to the 142's bark. Throttle response was sluggish. It's a little lighter than the 142 and got the job done competently and didn't stink, and seemed to use little mix and bar oil. You could definitely run this saw for a long time without getting worn out, but it was a bit boring and disappointing.
I got to thinking about this as I was cleaning off the saws. The 142 has stock porting which is not radical and the muffler mod is hardly extreme - just opened baffles, no screen and the outlet opened a bit. It wears 0.043" 90S on a 16" bar. The porting on the MS4018 does not seem any more restrictive than the 142, and I opened up the muffler at least as much. It has -.050" 91PX on an 18" bar, but I was not full bar. So what is the difference? I decided to take another look at the muffler to see if I missed something - and indeed I did!
I had opened up the main baffle and the outlet by enlarging the hole and adding a second, but there is an outlet bowl area that only has a restrictive entrance from the clutch side - not any more:
I added a second entrance to the outlet bowl from below and opened up the two separate outlet holes.
I had time to warm it up, tune it and take it back up to cut a few cookies off that ash. Now we're talkin'! It's louder and has a bark like the 142, it revs better and it can hold the revs in the cut. I don't know if it's faster than the 142, but it's close and it's fun to use now. I think the 142 has a little better throttle response, and a much better air filter system - well, the air filter in the MS4018 just sucks. I'm going to order another cover and see about modifying it - that inlet over behind the clutch just pulls in lots of fines.
I got the saw with a nice case, which I cleaned out with engine degreaser. I've run the saw several times now, and I always put it away in the case once it cools off - there is not a drop of bar oil in that case, and yes it is oiling the bar well. So I'm hopeful that this will be a light weight, low fuel and oil mix use saw that can get the job done too.
The 142 is stock except for a modified 141 muffler. It started right up and was it's usually well behaved and frenetic self, reving like crazy and cutting fast. The MS4018 started up and was well behaved too - just slow. It didn't want to rev like th 142 and was pretty quiet compared to the 142's bark. Throttle response was sluggish. It's a little lighter than the 142 and got the job done competently and didn't stink, and seemed to use little mix and bar oil. You could definitely run this saw for a long time without getting worn out, but it was a bit boring and disappointing.
I got to thinking about this as I was cleaning off the saws. The 142 has stock porting which is not radical and the muffler mod is hardly extreme - just opened baffles, no screen and the outlet opened a bit. It wears 0.043" 90S on a 16" bar. The porting on the MS4018 does not seem any more restrictive than the 142, and I opened up the muffler at least as much. It has -.050" 91PX on an 18" bar, but I was not full bar. So what is the difference? I decided to take another look at the muffler to see if I missed something - and indeed I did!
I had opened up the main baffle and the outlet by enlarging the hole and adding a second, but there is an outlet bowl area that only has a restrictive entrance from the clutch side - not any more:
I added a second entrance to the outlet bowl from below and opened up the two separate outlet holes.
I had time to warm it up, tune it and take it back up to cut a few cookies off that ash. Now we're talkin'! It's louder and has a bark like the 142, it revs better and it can hold the revs in the cut. I don't know if it's faster than the 142, but it's close and it's fun to use now. I think the 142 has a little better throttle response, and a much better air filter system - well, the air filter in the MS4018 just sucks. I'm going to order another cover and see about modifying it - that inlet over behind the clutch just pulls in lots of fines.
I got the saw with a nice case, which I cleaned out with engine degreaser. I've run the saw several times now, and I always put it away in the case once it cools off - there is not a drop of bar oil in that case, and yes it is oiling the bar well. So I'm hopeful that this will be a light weight, low fuel and oil mix use saw that can get the job done too.
Scott had asked me about the airbox inlet, and I though I saw how that worked but it turns out I was wrong. The inlet is this triangular opening in the corner:
which goes to a passage that leads to this opening between the handlebar and the clutch cover:
It's not near as effective as the Turbo scoop on my Husky 142, but then nothing else really is. That area behind the clutch get a lot of fine dust, which gets into the airbox and the filter isn't that good at stopping it.
Speaking of the 142, I really need to do a quantitative comparison of the two - both 40cc, both muffler modded, and both just about identical dimensions. But both very different in construction and character. The MS4018PAV feels lighter (and is supposed to be), and the 142 feels like it has more power, but then it has a shorter 0.043" bar on it. I won't really be able to measure fuel use, and the MS4018PAV has a smaller tank. Once it gets going the Mac really doesn't smell or smoke much at all.
I'll have to get a good log and get them both going to see how they compare. Maybe I'll swap the 142's bar and chain between the two.
Good thread and pictures,Chris. My Poulan 2000 will suck chips and dust to clog the area under the air-filter. Many things to consider when designing a saw. I'm interested in hearing the results of the 16" bar with the 90S Micro-Lite chain on the MS4018PAV. Check your private messages.
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Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
The last thing I wanted to tackle was the air filtration. I picked up a few spare parts pretty cheap off eBay, including a muffler and an air filter cover, and they got here fast. I blocked off the air box entrance and modified the top cover with a new entrance hole from the blower area:
The cover I got had a splotch of purple spray paint on it and was a bit scuffed. I had to scrape off the paint and buff it with scotchbrite, then I hit it with clear satin Krylon. It's a bit too shiney but not too bad:
I'll have to try this arrangement out in the wood and see if it sucks in fewer fines.
The cover I got had a splotch of purple spray paint on it and was a bit scuffed. I had to scrape off the paint and buff it with scotchbrite, then I hit it with clear satin Krylon. It's a bit too shiney but not too bad:
I'll have to try this arrangement out in the wood and see if it sucks in fewer fines.
Chris-PA
Where the Wild Things Are
I did not think I'd get to do anything but other chores today, but I cheated and tried out the mods. It works! The filter is much better with the new inlet. I took it up and cut up some ash and oak - not that much but more than enough to build up a lot of fines on the filter before:
Barely anything in there. And boy does it run! It's a whole different saw. I assume that's mostly the completed muffler mod, and that the air box inlet change has little to do with how it runs (although I am pulling air from a higher pressure area). Regardless, it's on par with the 142 now and lots of fun. If you've got a GZ4000 you really need a muffler mod or it's a dog, but there's lots of potential there. And I didn't touch the porting.
I found this nice knob for the filter cover at the local ACE hardware:
The GZ4000 comes with a hand screw but the Mac cheesed with a standard screw. This knob is a 10-32 thread and I'm sure the original was a 5mm, but those two thread sizes are so close and the 10-32 is just a wee bit smaller in diameter. It threads in nicely.
Barely anything in there. And boy does it run! It's a whole different saw. I assume that's mostly the completed muffler mod, and that the air box inlet change has little to do with how it runs (although I am pulling air from a higher pressure area). Regardless, it's on par with the 142 now and lots of fun. If you've got a GZ4000 you really need a muffler mod or it's a dog, but there's lots of potential there. And I didn't touch the porting.
I found this nice knob for the filter cover at the local ACE hardware:
The GZ4000 comes with a hand screw but the Mac cheesed with a standard screw. This knob is a 10-32 thread and I'm sure the original was a 5mm, but those two thread sizes are so close and the 10-32 is just a wee bit smaller in diameter. It threads in nicely.
