Need advice felling this forked, split tree

[Gologit]

I though he did everything correct except the back cut, dull chain and walking around the tree putting himself in the danger zone.
I know, now that the dull chain and improper back cut was enough to get him killed

I just don't like to see when people start attacking someone and calling them names because they didn't do something correctly.
By all means point out what you think they did wrong and right, and we can all learn something that could probably save someones life (JMHI)

You're right about his technique and his chain. His mistakes were very obvious.

You're also right about not attacking somebody for not doing something correctly. That's counter productive...nobody learns anything and everybody goes away angry.

What caught my attention, and the attention of the more experienced guys, even more than the mistakes, was his attitude toward the whole thing. He was obviously ill prepared and just as obviously didn't care if he was. He also didn't respond well to being called out for his mistakes.

Maybe, in our own way, we were trying to get him to think a little. He really needs to.

Anybody that works in the woods long enough sees guys get hurt and killed. We have a saying about teaching..."I don't like to yell...but I'd rather piss you off than pack you out".

 

[056kid]

In this case wedges would have helped

Helped with what?

 

[moody]

Helped with what?

I've already explained that a page ago.

 

[056kid]

I've already explained that a page ago.

Like I said...

Helped with what?

 

[514mach1]

Thanks for the video!! (It's on page 6, for those who don't want to go back through the pages looking for it) I'm certainly an amatuer and have had no proper lessons on felling... or anything else chainsaw related. If it were me, I would have just looked in the split and if it went in deep (as this one was), I'd have made a small face cut and then used a plenty long bar on my big saw (394xp) to rip down the split and angle toward the face cut I'd made. I'd cut from the split side of the tree. That would take down the more leaning limb to the right and the left side would stay standing. After pulling out the fallen part with tractor and chain, I'd do a basic notch and back cut to finish off the still standing part. Pros, would this be a very stupid way to do it?

 

[bcaarms]

I'd have made a small face cut and then used a plenty long bar on my big saw (394xp) to rip down the split and angle toward the face cut I'd made.

Are you going to use a sharp chain? :taped:

 

[Philip Wheelock]

More of a connection than I thought between high-performance ported saws (and chains) and reducing time in the danger zone.

 

[Trx250r180]

question for the more experienced guys ,looking at the split ,since it was split already ,seems like most of the energy of a barber chair is gone vs a sold tree that's a leaner and intact ,i know i wouldn't treat it any differently than a leaner dropping it,i wouldn't walk behind or in front of it after cuts were made ,just seems like if its already split ,would boring from the front half of the split tree towards the second half have been safer ,then do a second drop on the other split half ,treat it like 2 trees next to another ?that's how i take down some trees when like 5 or 6 trees come out of the same stump area ,seems like it may have worked with this,i guess if it didn't fall the first half with this idea just follow the rest of the way through with the bore cut and drop like one tree instead of 2 ?

 

[514mach1]

Are you going to use a sharp chain? :taped:

Yeah, as sharp as I could reasonably get it with a round file. If it was an 84cc saw, I don't know why it was bogging down all the time in that vid if it was a dull chain. It did cut very slow, but I thought dull chains let the saw typically go at higher rpm. Well, I guess if he was forcing it and then when it would finally bite with a lot of pressure it would make the saw bog down like it was.

 

[moody]

Like I said...

Helped with what?

By plunge cutting a tree properly you control the lean of the tree. The wedges help stabilize it when you make your back cut. And if your hinge cut is correct you'll rid yourself of the dreaded tooth pick hinge as its called around here, which causes a barber chair.

This is from my exp. and I honestly don't like using wedge's be a tree like that I would have. We had a 46inch oak last summer that had a hollow split similar to what the OP had. Had we not done it the way we did things could have ended poorly. We realized we needed help and had a logger friend of our's demonstrate how to do that properly. Of course you can plunge cut with out wedges but we learned they help in some cases. We were humble enough to realize it was out of our league and went out of our way to learn the proper steps. We didn't get butt hurt when someone asked how we didn't know that information with as much cutting as we do. Just replied back we don't normally encounter hard leaning big trees that are split. Now we cut forked trees all the time. Hell thats about all we have. The soil we have wont support large leaners in most cases they will fall after a good rain.

 

[slowp]

I am not a faller. I am a retired forester--worked around logging operations.

I had a few, "Sit down on this log, I want to talk to you." episodes from loggers. Even though I was supposed to be checking on their work, and not a friend, if they saw me doing something stupid, or heard of it, I heard about it from the log lectures. I paid attention. Those guys doing the safety talks to me had years and years of experience working in the woods. They'd seen their coworkers killed and injured. They'd survived and learned what NOT to do.

Don't get all huffy about a chewing out by some guys who have actually a lot of experience around trees.
You should feel glad to get such advice. Yeah, it may be harsh, but the intent is good. They want to see you survive.

If you ever came to a logging town, you'd see a lot of guys hobbling around. There's a reason for that. Trees are big and heavy. The things used to move them also are dangerous. A lot of guys have been killed and injured. The rest of us should learn from the survivors.

Now, I watched my neighbor and son, the older no longer falls full time but is extremely well spoken of as "a hell of a faller" the son does fall for a living, cut a split Doug fir. They spent more time placing a binder chain above the split, than in the actual cutting process. I'm sure there are other ways to get split hardwoods down. I live in conifer country.

That's another way--another tool. Learn. A good start would be to read the book by Douglas Dent. He spent most of his life trying to educate fallers and make them safer. He did not die in an accident, either.

Enough with the insults and whining about a chewing out. You would be sent home if you were cutting in the woods, and it would be to save your life. You're lucky to get some chewing out and ADVICE by some people.
Clean out your ears and listen.

 

[40YearHomelite]

Enough with the insults and whining about a chewing out. You would be sent home if you were cutting in the woods, and it would be to save your life. You're lucky to get some chewing out and ADVICE by some people.
Clean out your ears and listen.

Where exactly have I insulted anyone? Should I not be offended when someone needlessly throws insults my way? Please, offer advice you've gained from experience. Point out my mistakes. Help me learn. Just don't #### on me for sharing a problem and my amateur solution that I tried to do the best I could.

 

[40YearHomelite]

NOW!!!

You know why I don't post very many pics and videos to this site.
No matter HOW you do it, it isn't good enough.
Too many professionals around here.
Mike

Exactly. That will be the last time I share anything here.

 

[40YearHomelite]

Exactly. That will be the last time I share anything here.

Or, god forbid, ask questions.

 

[Mastermind]

In this case wedges would have helped

Helped with what?

I'm with Ted on this.........wedges on a heavy leaner?????? Why?

I ain't picking on you Moody........just reading along hoping to learn something from these guys that make a living in the woods........and have done it while staying alive.

I got away with a real bad barber chair a couple of years ago.......just thinking about how fast that tree blew apart gives me chills. I'm no faller........hell I'm not really special in any one thing. Knowing that makes me study harder though.

I learned a lot from that tree........that close call made me spend a damn good while studying felling techniques. Since that time I've dropped several heavy leaners without any problems, and one that had a huge double crown. Does that make me an expert? Hell no......it means that I've learned just enough to be dangerous........but I'm sure paying attention and trying to learn more.

God gave us two ears and only one mouth for a reason.

 

[exSW]

40YearHomelite: Don't know how old you are but in rough country that's how we get your attention,the shrinks call it "negative re-enforcement".Positive re-enforcement works as well just not as fast.In dangerous situations time is not something of which you have a lot.Here's some positive,you got the tree down,didn't hurt anything or break anything.Now go watch at your near ten minute video and try being hard on yourself.

 

[Mastermind]

Or, god forbid, ask questions.

Just learn to handle criticism better...a new idea can not be grafted into a closed mind my friend. :msp_wink:

 

[Gologit]

Or, god forbid, ask questions.

Your questions were answered. Maybe they weren't answered to your satisfaction because you didn't happen to like the answers.
If you do something dangerous, through ignorance or inexperience, and brag about getting away with it you can't really expect us to pat you on the head and tell you how well you did. That will never happen. Your luck in this particular case overcame your poor judgement. It won't always work that way.

Go back and read the posts where we criticized your technique. They might be a little harsh but they're true. If you can't accept the truth and learn from it you might as well find yourself some other hobby...stamp collecting maybe or watercolors...something that won't get you or some bystander hurt. Or worse.

Some people aren't teachable and I do believe that you're one of them. If a bunch of different people all tell you basically the same thing, they're probably right.

I'm done with this.

 

[moody]

Just learn to handle criticism better...a new idea can not be grafted into a closed mind my friend. :msp_wink:

When you do a proper wedge cut you'll have wedges close to your hinge cut which is finished. By the time you've got those in place there's nothing but your wedges and your back cut holding the tree. Those wedges support the tree's lean until you make your final cut and you have a smaller chance of pinching because your wedge gives your bar room to quickly make the final cut. Just how I was shown by a friend who's been logging for 20 years. My 385 was his friends who made the same mistake as the OP and didn't live to type about it. Broke the handle off the saw folded the bar and crushed him. That saw sat for 5 years don't get me wrong I love my saw, but I don't like the reason I own it. I do my best not to put myself in position to have someone inherit anything of mine.

 

[Mastermind]

When you do a proper wedge cut you'll have wedges close to your hinge cut which is finished. By the time you've got those in place there's nothing but your wedges and your back cut holding the tree. Those wedges support the tree's lean until you make your final cut and you have a smaller chance of pinching because your wedge gives your bar room to quickly make the final cut. Just how I was shown by a friend who's been logging for 20 years. My 385 was his friends who made the same mistake as the OP and didn't live to type about it. Broke the handle off the saw folded the bar and crushed him. That saw sat for 5 years don't get me wrong I love my saw, but I don't like the reason I own it. I do my best not to put myself in position to have someone inherit anything of mine.

That's a method I've yet to see......and honestly don't understand it.