Need some help with my TW-5

[T. Mainus]

I recently purchased a used TW-5. It is @10 years old if I am reading the tag correctly. 11-02-4369 is what the tag says. I have 2 questions for some of you guys that are running these machines. Does the hydraulic basket/filter in the top of the tank come out on this age machine? I tried to get it out tonight to clean it but it was not going to come out without really forcing it. I could lift it up maybe 1/2 inch from the top of the tank and that was it. I know the new ones come out, but I am not sure of this one. The second question is the one I have been banging my head up against a wall trying to fix. This splitter has the auto cycle valve. On the back of the auto cycle valve, their are 2 caps that have 4 bolts on them. They cover the back end of the spools in the valve I think. Well they leak hydraulic fluid where the cap meets the expander(for lack of a better term) then screw into the valve body. The guy I bought it from told me they leaked, he thought the o-rings were bad in the spool, he checked it and they seemed fine. I think when he took it apart he trashed the gaskets and made his own. The gaskets on the log lift/wedge side are pretty thick, on the auto cycle side they are really thin gasket material. I need new gaskets and I can not find them anywhere. My dealer says I have to get them from the valve company, Timberwolf does not carry parts for the valves. I looked at princes website but I can't find a schematic/part number to order. Does anyone have a link to a site that I could order these parts from?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[066Bigbear]

1. The filter should come right out maybe a little twisting but it has an o-ring at the bottom if I am not mistaking
2. And on the back of the valves should be an o-ring too

I hope that I am not leading you wrong but its been a while since I have worked on mine:msp_biggrin:and once you get yours all worked out you should have to do anything but put gas in it an change the oils

 

[leon]

Tw5-fc

I recently purchased a used TW-5. It is @10 years old if I am reading the tag correctly. 11-02-4369 is what the tag says. I have 2 questions for some of you guys that are running these machines. Does the hydraulic basket/filter in the top of the tank come out on this age machine? I tried to get it out tonight to clean it but it was not going to come out without really forcing it. I could lift it up maybe 1/2 inch from the top of the tank and that was it. I know the new ones come out, but I am not sure of this one. The second question is the one I have been banging my head up against a wall trying to fix. This splitter has the auto cycle valve. On the back of the auto cycle valve, their are 2 caps that have 4 bolts on them. They cover the back end of the spools in the valve I think. Well they leak hydraulic fluid where the cap meets the expander(for lack of a better term) then screw into the valve body. The guy I bought it from told me they leaked, he thought the o-rings were bad in the spool, he checked it and they seemed fine. I think when he took it apart he trashed the gaskets and made his own. The gaskets on the log lift/wedge side are pretty thick, on the auto cycle side they are really thin gasket material. I need new gaskets and I can not find them anywhere. My dealer says I have to get them from the valve company, Timberwolf does not carry parts for the valves. I looked at princes website but I can't find a schematic/part number to order. Does anyone have a link to a site that I could order these parts from?

Thanks,

Tom

Hello Tom,


First you can call Prince hydraulics once you have the serial numbers located on the valve assemblies and the cylinder and get the wiper seals- BUT i would much rather see you take the entire valve to a repair shop and have them replace the seals and flow rate the valve to see if it needs to be replaced as it sounds as if the prior owner did not maintain this TW5-FC







I take it he did not have the all the manuals to give it to you when you bought it??????????????????


Lordy, Lordy, Lordy,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


SO he checked the spools and the seals on the spools huh??????????????????????
UH HUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chances are most likely he tore the spool seals if he removed the spools to CHECK THE SEALS UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! which should not have been done to begin with.

Spools and spool valves are machined parts which are installed in each individual spool
by allowing a spool to drop into a new valve casting by gravity ONLY!!!!!!!!!!


The new Neoprene rubber compression spool seals are installed in the grooves of the new casting on both sides of the spool prior to the spool being allowed to drop into the valve body by gravity.

The spool seals are square in design to seal more effectlvely against dust and dirt.


After the spool drops into the cavity of the valve, the valve still has to have the springs and or detents installed on the rear of each valve spool.


1. The end caps have a dust gasket that simply is held in place by the cap and the 4 allen bolts.
If he made his own glorified gaskets I strongly suggest that you unbolt the valve body and take it to
a Prince dealer for the repair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


a.The end caps cover the rear portion of the individual spool valve which have a spool centering spring and
or the detent ball and detent cage and sleeve for the specific valve.

2. The end seals are ment to keep dust and dirt out of the spool
and wipe the spool at the same time.

a. They are not ment to act as oil seals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. The filter basket or strainer should pull right out-does the screen have a lifting loop? if it does, it will
come right out, its tight because it seals at the bottom.

You will not ruin anything by pulling it out. (You may end up changing all the oil in the
tank anyway by the sounds of things anyway as the oil may be 10 years old and should be changed)



Why did you open it up? was it over heating? did the restriction indicator
go into the red.


Each Prince valve body should have a serial number and tag on it.

Its late and I could not put my hands on my manual but I will get
it out tomorrow if needed.

Get the ID tag number on the valve body and you can call Prince Hydraulics
if you insist on doing this yourself.


OY VEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[T. Mainus]

Leon,

Thank you for your post. To answer a couple of your questions.
1. No manuals. I downloaded them off of Timberwolfs website. But my machine is I think 10 years old so the new manuals are different.

2. I was checking the level of the hydraulic fluid in the tank. The basket filter looked dirty so I tried to take it out. My tank does not have the indicator guage like the new machines. I think I may be missing the inside basket part of the filter. I had to remove 6 self tapping screws to lift what I thought was the filter. I think that is the outside portion of the assembly. There isn't any lifting loop to speak of.

3. The dust gaskets that you speak of sound like the gasket that I am missing.

4. Where are the ID tags located on the valve bodies? I did not see any but I did not know they existed to be looking for them either.

5. Why do you think this is a TW-5FC? He told me he originally had a FC but he did not like it. He took it back right away and got the "standard" TW-5. There is no way this thing has a 6 second cycle time. I will check the cylinder tomorrow to make sure it is a 24x5x2 instead of the 24x4x2 that the FC would have.

The guy was straight forward with me when I bought it, he showed me the leaks. He was a farmer/tree service guy so I am not suprised that he tried to make his own gaskets. The price was right and it was close to home. If I can find our camera I will take some pictures of the splitter so you can see what I am trying to explain to you.

Thanks again,

Tom

 

[triptester]

Attached is a parts list and exploded view of the Prince autocycle valve.

http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/products/valves/AutoCycleManual.pdf

Repair of autocycle valve page 26-28

http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/pdf/TW2HD_5_5FC_6Manual0109V2.pdf

 

[leon]

Tw-5

Leon,

Thank you for your post. To answer a couple of your questions.
1. No manuals. I downloaded them off of Timberwolfs website. But my machine is I think 10 years old so the new manuals are different.

2. I was checking the level of the hydraulic fluid in the tank. The basket filter looked dirty so I tried to take it out. My tank does not have the indicator guage like the new machines. I think I may be missing the inside basket part of the filter. I had to remove 6 self tapping screws to lift what I thought was the filter. I think that is the outside portion of the assembly. There isn't any lifting loop to speak of.

3. The dust gaskets that you speak of sound like the gasket that I am missing.

4. Where are the ID tags located on the valve bodies? I did not see any but I did not know they existed to be looking for them either.

5. Why do you think this is a TW-5FC? He told me he originally had a FC but he did not like it. He took it back right away and got the "standard" TW-5. There is no way this thing has a 6 second cycle time. I will check the cylinder tomorrow to make sure it is a 24x5x2 instead of the 24x4x2 that the FC would have.

The guy was straight forward with me when I bought it, he showed me the leaks. He was a farmer/tree service guy so I am not suprised that he tried to make his own gaskets. The price was right and it was close to home. If I can find our camera I will take some pictures of the splitter so you can see what I am trying to explain to you.

Thanks again,

Tom

1. I am glad you have manuals/copies to download

2. its referred to as a bail -sorry twas late last night

3. parts are available

4. the serial number tags should be riveted on the out portion of the valve casting

5. I thought it was an FC model

 

[captjack]

if the machine is that old i think it has a spin on filter - mine does - the oil should be filled about 2 inches from the top of that basket filter.

The back of the spools leak on everyone I have ever seen - call timberwolf - those guys are great and the seal kit is like 20 bucks. They do carry them - ask for the parts dept. My friend just ordered some for his machine today.

I can try and get you the gasket kit number later if you need it. It has all the seals for the valves in it.

 

[T. Mainus]

Here is an update.

I called Timberwolf and they sent me a new o-ring kit for the valves. There is no gasket/dust seal on the auto cycles valve. The log lift/wedge lift does have an gasket /seal on it. I took the end caps off, took the handles off and pulled the spool out from the rear of the valve. I replaced the o-rings even though the existing ones looked fine. I was hoping to find a broken 0-ring but no luck.When I took the end-caps off I was not paying attention to how they were on originally. they have a little groove on the back side that I was not aware of. I am not sure if the groove is supposed to be at 3,6,9,or 12 oclock. I installed them with the groove at 12 oclock. that made the most sense at the time. I ran it on saturday and all seemed well. Went to go split tonight and now I have hydraulic fluid coming out of these little grooves when the valves kick off. Fluid spits out the top of the cap where this little groove is. Really makes a mess. It did not so this before. I also am having trouble adjusting the return valve so it kicks off at the end of the return cycle. Sometimes it does and sometimes it won't. When it won't the engine bogs down until you hit it manually. I took some pictures of the caps and valves to see if anyone can help. The caps still leak a little from the bottom but not as bad as before. I might call timberwolf again tomorrow and see if they have any other ideas.

Tom

View attachment 235345View attachment 235346View attachment 235347

 

[leon]

Tw5

Here is an update.

I called Timberwolf and they sent me a new o-ring kit for the valves. There is no gasket/dust seal on the auto cycles valve. The log lift/wedge lift does have an gasket /seal on it. I took the end caps off, took the handles off and pulled the spool out from the rear of the valve. I replaced the o-rings even though the existing ones looked fine. I was hoping to find a broken 0-ring but no luck.When I took the end-caps off I was not paying attention to how they were on originally. they have a little groove on the back side that I was not aware of. I am not sure if the groove is supposed to be at 3,6,9,or 12 oclock. I installed them with the groove at 12 oclock. that made the most sense at the time. I ran it on saturday and all seemed well. Went to go split tonight and now I have hydraulic fluid coming out of these little grooves when the valves kick off. Fluid spits out the top of the cap where this little groove is. Really makes a mess. It did not so this before. I also am having trouble adjusting the return valve so it kicks off at the end of the return cycle. Sometimes it does and sometimes it won't. When it won't the engine bogs down until you hit it manually. I took some pictures of the caps and valves to see if anyone can help. The caps still leak a little from the bottom but not as bad as before. I might call timberwolf again tomorrow and see if they have any other ideas.

Tom

View attachment 235345View attachment 235346View attachment 235347

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I am pretty sure you cut the seal or seals when you reinstalled the spools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[T. Mainus]

Talked to the guys at Timberwolf today. I have the caps at 12 o-clock, they have to be at 6 o-clock. So I will change that around and see if it makes a difference. I would be surprised if I cut an o-ring putting it back together. It was pretty simple to see if it was in the right spot, but I will check it out when I tear it apart again. Guy at T-wolf said the valve just might be bad as well. He gave me the part number and the number of the place to get them from since T-wolf no longer carries them. If I can't get it figured out I will just order a new valve. Guy thought it would be $175 for the new valve.
I also have a hydraulic repair guy in the family as well, was hoping to figure this out before I had to make that phone call. Not looking forward to replacing the valve. That looks like a lot of work to get that out and back in.

Tom

 

[captjack]

Dont adjust the auto cycle until the machine is nice and hot - if its not all the way hot you will be chasing that adjustment all day ! Ask me how i know that - lol

mine was out when i first got it - took a little bit of foolin with but its dialed in now. - you can try Prince as well for the seals as they make the valves

best of luck

 

[triptester]

In the Prince manual I posted earlier on page 5 the position of the vent groove in the detent cap is shown. Leakage at the back of the valve can be caused by a speck of dirt or a burr in the O-ring seatting area or the the small O-ring #39 could also cause leakage.

 

[T. Mainus]

Well cross your fingers, I took it all back apart tonight and redid everything. This time I also took the detente's apart and replaced all the o-rings and spacers in there as well. Put it all back together and ran it for about 5 minutes and no leaks. I am hoping that I got it figured out this time. I want to thank everyone who chimed in trying to help me with this. I am a carpenter by trade, have no problem tearing your house apart and putting it back together. But I absolutely despise wrenching on stuff. I have some tools, not alot. And it is never easy to get at the thing you need to get at. I usually just call the mechanic when something is wrong with a vehicle. So this is a big deal to me to get this figured out. My local T-wolf dealer just started selling them, so they have no idea how to work on them at all. Took them 2 tries to get me the right table grate for the TW-5. Thanks again.

Tom

 

[triptester]

Glad to hear you have it fixed.