moparman
ArboristSite Member
Mark,
I don't know who Ron is, but there is a number of inaccuracies in his answers. It does not matter to me, but the record should be set straight.
Originally Posted by Modifiedmark
No doubt about the S25 putting Poulan on the map, I would love to see the total production numbers on those. They have to be one of the most rebadege saws ever and might just be the most total ever produced if rebadged are included. More basic Micro 25 chainsaws (including all their rebranded models) were built in each year of their early production than the entire production of 25D/S25/S25CVA series. Their was far more rebadged variations of basic Micro 25 than any other chainsaw in history - I believe that I sent you a list of most of rebrands.
The 219 saws as you called them seemed to be a real good step for Poulan, they to me are better then the countervibe series they replaced. The 2.8 and 3.0 sizes were a welcome size that they had been missing in there lineup although they were a bit pudgy for the 2.8. The 3.3 and 3.6 sizes were very good and it looks like it would have been a good platform to upsize to 70-80cc.
When the emmisons standards started to get stiffer most of the reed saws were already gone or on the way out though were they not? Reeds were out because they are hard to seal properly inexpensively in high volume production. With piston ported, there also are no reeds to break, plus you can get higher speed especially with smaller displacement high reving engines. It is easier to tune engines for emissions by having luxury of changing intake port timing and area also, but reeds were already out prior to emissions - both 34/37/4000 series and P219 series were developed without reeds.
Poulan knew in advance what the standards were going to and had been putting efforts into meeting standards with existing products but they decided to go into different directions and maybe they were given the directions to head into, during that time I was not privy to the why's and wherefores just the aftermath. Poulan did not go in a different direction, but put CATs on modified existing products both with chainsaws and L&G product. Only later after these products were in production, did we pursue new Airhead engines and product to go with them. I knew there was a big push to get something into production that would meet EPA regs. Once they did get those into the system then they could sell other units on credits that did not meet the spec. This is correct.
I had heard that story before about Elux wanting to have Husqvarna as there premire Pro saw and that maybe so but I have a hard time figuring why they kept a Pro series at all then with a mix of there own saws, (PP335) rebadged Partners (pp325), and Jonsereds (PP415-505). Even more confusing is the fact the PP335 and PP325 were sold at the same time as there so close in size etc. At that time (89?) every thing in the Poulan Pro lineup was on par or even better then what Husqvarna seemed to have, so not wanting compition don't make much sense to me. At the time Poulan was purchased, Poulan still had a large dealer network. They needed a dealer lineup that looked very different than the direct account lineup. I know because I prepared both lineups for Poulan. With the exception of the P219 series, most of Poulans saws were dated and their reputation with dealers was not great. There was no need for both PP305 and PP325 being in lineup (both were 3.0 ci and both good saws) but the far more expensive PP325 was only added to appease the Swedes. The big Pioneer Partner saws were dated, but they had a better reputation with dealers than Poulan's 69/77/8500 series plus more power and durability. The more recently designed Partner saws (modified versions of the Jonsered saws) were added, as they were developed, to replace the old Pioneer saws. Of course, this was only a stop gap plan because Elux realized that they had too many competing dealer brands and eventually partially fixed by eliminating Poulan dealer saws in NA and Partner dealer saws in Europe. Well take a long look back and who is building pro saws now and who isn't. and after the late 80's even though a product had the Poulan Pro name tag on it did not mean that it was specified for the Pro market. When the Poulan Pro lineup was created, it was only for dealers. It was only later when Poulan dealers were being phased out, that the Poulan Pro name was bastardized and used for some direct account customers. For a saw to be assigned for the pro market it has to meet several assigned criteria such as durability testing in the field for 300 hours minimum and another set for rack testing in the lab. It wasn't just about horsepower, torque and displacement.I have also heard the story that the Poulan Pro line was introduced to appease there stocking servicing dealers.
It was, but when Poulan started making deals with Sears and Wal-Mart etc... then that was the death knell for the dealer network. Poulan was making deals with Sears, Western Auto, etc back in the mid 1970s. By the late 1970s Sears was approximately 1/3 of Poulan's business. The death knell for the dealer network was provided by Elux which decided that Poulan was going to be the consumer product producer and Husqvarna was going to be the professional product producer.
I have heard about the labor troubles in Shreveport and thats not surprising as the south seemed to generally anti union states but then again, its lots of money to build new plants, move equipment etc. Who knows what all the truth is as most of us have no concept of the the kind of money that goes through these big corperations. Lower taxes, lower workmans comp payments etc could have all played into it.
Poulan got HUGE tax breaks for coming here. not to mention utilities, land, allowances, the list goes on and on. A friend of mine started working for Poulan in 1967 and retired in 2009 and he told me that when they started building the Nashville plant that they were told that it was for overflow production. The Nashville plant was already built and producing before 1967, and was built for producing the Micro 25 saw only. Production of other products remained in Shreveport. There were tax concessions from Arkansas to expand the plant for the remainder of products, but that was not the main reason. Emerson owned Poulan at the time and hated unions. There was union organizers at the Shreveport plant and Emerson would have moved production out even if it meant that it cost them money.
One other question that comes to mind is the Pioneer based Poulan Pros. I at first thought that all the tooling etc from when Elux closed the Peterbrough plant went to Poulan but later found that the Pioneer/Partner saws and the Pioneer based Poluan Pros were produced in the Canadian EMAB plant. From what I have been told, the tooling did later on go to Poulan. Do you remember any Pioneer based Poulan Pros produced in the Poulan plant?
They were built in Canada and there is a friend of mine that if I can get ahold of him that is very knowledgeable of all things Pioneer. I seem to remember some powerheads that were repurposed and packaged in different configurations. All Pioneer based Pioneer Partner saws were produced at Emab Canada. Most Pioneer based Poulan Pro saws were built at Emab Canada. At the end some tooling was moved to US and some saws were produced in Nashville. Elux wanted to close the Emab Canada plant and there was not any other option.I sure could have gone all day without you telling me about moving any Poulan production to China. I guess it really don't surprise me though. I guess the clamshell Husky will be made in Arkansas now.
Husqvarna is moving alot of their production to Arkansas, whose experience and efficiency at building these products are second to none. there is a reason that they are still the largest manufacturer of chainsaws in the world. Husqvarna's CEO said in a newsletter about 2 years ago that the future of the company lay in developing production in China. Stihl tried and left, it still remains to be seen that china can actually do it. I won't comment about this because current company decisions are proprietary and should not be discussed outside of Husqvarna. Paul
Thanks for what you can share Ron.
No problem
ron
