Nik's Poulan Thread

[a. palmer jr.]

I asked a question about the bolt through the recoil cover, & according to the seller
"that bolt is original and holds the recoil assembly to the recoil cover that's the way poulan designed it go figure...."

chainsaw craftsman/poulan 3700 18in bar | eBay

This' on my watch list, I'm curious to see if his reserve is met.

I have one just like it...how come mine doesn't have the bolt? I have one on ebay also, without a reserve.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Jerry I'll set all that straight tonight from my pc.

thanks mark

 

[67L36Driver]

I'm lookin' at Mark's sig. and wondering why my model 47 is an off-white color and not green??

 

[Modifiedmark]

I'm lookin' at Mark's sig. and wondering why my model 47 is an off-white color and not green??

They ran out of green paint for a while.

 

[Modifiedmark]

just got a 361 delivered today. supposedly supposed to run. the fuel lines, in the tank and external, are hard so need to be replaced.
previously acquired a shop manual and ipl from the beg thread. amazingly there is no mention of fuel line replacement procedure nor line sizes except the lines are: "Fuel line (6-1/2" long, cut from 8120 tubing)" and "Fuel line to carburetor (2-1/2" long, cut from 8109 tubing)". the ipl shows the two lines, coupled with a fuel pick-up fitting. does this fitting screw into the tank. if so, can it even be removed? or would it be better to leave the fitting in and pull the line onto the fitting using a piece of wire?
does anyone know what size 8109 and 8120 tubing are and/or any tricks to replacing the line?
thanks, jerry

Ok Jerry, I hate to break this to you but the 360-451 series is not the easiest that there is to do fuel lines on.

Not saying there are not other ways to do it but I find it easiest to just bite the bullet and pull the carb out, and take the rear handle off to do it so you can get the tank fitting out.

The fuel fitting is threaded into the tank and you need a thin wall deep 5/16" socket to remove it. You can struggle by with a IGN wrench but theres not room for much swing with it.

You need a 1/8"ID x 3/16"OD fuel line inside the tank. Put it on the fitting first, fish it into the tank and out the filler hole then thread the fitting back into the tank. I never had one leak but a drop of motoseal on the fitting threads wont hurt anything.

You need a 3/16"ID x 5/16"OD line from the tank fitting to the carb. Put it on before you put the rear handle back on and fish it into the carb box when putting the handle back on.

Its really not that hard to pull the handle, just pull the recoil for a bolt under in on the bottom of the handle and unhook the oiler line at the same time. Once the carb is off there are 4 bolts inside the carb box to remove and I use a 1/4" drive universal 5/16" socket with a long extension to make it easy.

 

[dynodave]

3400/3800 repair progress

Bob & mark
That darn indescriptive word "IT"
Nope not a wiggly coil mount
should have said.... I could "wiggle the crank" more than I initially perceived. Even after I set the gap with 2 cards I rewiggled the crank and said #*** &####. ..garbage

I looked up the BH108 and see it is a pressed cup and not a heavy duty roller style like I was preparing to find.... like a timken HJ series.
Oh well this whole saw is turning out not as quick and easy a fix like I was hoping for.
I want this, now 3800, at 61cc & 20", to fit well in the middle of my 42cc (2150)18" and the 99cc husky 298xp 24", and hope it performs well and reliable.

snip

I'll advise after the 3800 pressure/vacuum tests.
cheers
Dave

Well reporting back on the pressure test after new bearings and seals....

I measured the radial play with new bearings and a very nice crank to be .005". More than I though it would be.... but OK...moving on
Wiggle jiggle on the crank all I want and i get no pressure change. The biggest leak I find with soapy water spray is at the spark plug hole at the pressure inlet. So after a half hour it does eventually go down a bit.
I ended up at .011 end play, and the needle bearing were about .040" below each case thrust face.
The thrust faces were 1.643" apart. The brass thrust washers thrust on the bearings and don't come close to the cases.
:matrix:

Strange that Tim and I have two dead 3400's with bad seals and bearings but it seems uncommon, are we just unlucky?

So far:
P/C(3800) used $50
bearings $19.76
Seals $
rings $6.94
bar-20" $42.12
bar guide plate inner $
chainS-70 $18.57
rim sprocket $19.82
air filter $5.83
gasket-air filte $1.45
carb kit $
gasket-carb/cyl $1.18
seal-fuel tank $.70
starter pulley $6.62
rope $nil/bulk
gasket-cylinder base $1.76
fuel line $nil/bulk
handle bar-original was bent pretty bad $14
ISO rubbers (2) $4.10
Switch Mag kill $
Plate Oiler Cover $2.01

I hope this 3800 saw (61cc) is worth it! I'll be comparing it to my new CAD donation....my cousins old (little used, almost new) 1977 homelite XL12 (54cc).
Dave :chainsawguy:

still needs a oil tank cap (small).........threads are striped.

 

[rms61moparman]

That saw, when you get it right should handily outperform an XL12 in both speed and power.
I didn't total up your expenses but you should be at about 1/4th the cost of an MS362 or 562 Husky.
They saw you have has already outlasted many of them and will do so again easily.


Mike

 

[rms61moparman]

Strange that Tim and I have two dead 3400's with bad seals and bearings but it seems uncommon, are we just unlucky?

No you two aren't just "unlucky"!

You two are over-engineering these saws to death!
There is no need to measure the clearances to the nth degree.
They were designed to run sloppy and if you tighten them up too much they WILL fail on you.
The bearings move over time.
Always have, always will.
The seals aren't perfect. That's just the way it is.
If you seal them up tight and run them a while there will be some leakdown. Don't sweat the petty stuff......
They aren't motorcycles or german cars, they are Poulan saws. Made right here in the good old U.S.A. on assembly lines that couldn't hold tolerances to within .005 if their life depended on it.
They used the needle bearings for a reason. They knew how to make them run with slop and they work fine.
Use and enjoy them and don't try to out think the brilliant men who designed them.


Mike

 

[nick 55]

No you two aren't just "unlucky"!

You two are over-engineering these saws to death!
There is no need to measure the clearances to the nth degree.
They were designed to run sloppy and if you tighten them up too much they WILL fail on you.
The bearings move over time.
Always have, always will.
The seals aren't perfect. That's just the way it is.
If you seal them up tight and run them a while there will be some leakdown. Don't sweat the petty stuff......
They aren't motorcycles or german cars, they are Poulan saws. Made right here in the good old U.S.A. on assembly lines that couldn't hold tolerances to within .005 if their life depended on it.
They used the needle bearings for a reason. They knew how to make them run with slop and they work fine.
Use and enjoy them and don't try to out think the brilliant men who designed them.


Mike

Now you are giving the German cars too much credit! Just kidding.

Personally, I would have just put seals in them and seen what happened when I retested them. Somebody posted a couple pages ago about the Timken seal part number....I'm pretty sure the number they listed is correct. I know if they search this thread for Mark or my posts, the number is listed. I may be wrong, started a new job today and I might be slightly inebreated because I might be in over my head there.....
Mark will set everyone straight.

Nick

 

[rms61moparman]

Now you are giving the German cars too much credit! Just kidding.

Personally, I would have just put seals in them and seen what happened when I retested them. Somebody posted a couple pages ago about the Timken seal part number....I'm pretty sure the number they listed is correct. I know if they search this thread for Mark or my posts, the number is listed. I may be wrong, started a new job today and I might be slightly inebreated because I might be in over my head there.....
Mark will set everyone straight.

Nick

No Nick,

Actually Mark and I were talking on the phone earlier tonight and I convinced him to let me explain the situation to them.
I thought they way he was talking might have been perceived to be a bit harsh!!!LOL (to say the least!LOL)
As we know, my brother Mark can be a bit blunt and some seem to take that the wrong way......sometimes.


Mike

 

[wigglesworth]

Strange that Tim and I have two dead 3400's with bad seals and bearings but it seems uncommon, are we just unlucky?

FWIW, I just went thru the same thing. Had a 4000 poulan, with what I thought was too much slop, about .005 radial, so I tore it down, put $25 worth of seals and bearings in it, (well $40 if u count the seals I fubared puttin in lol) only to find that with new bearings, it still had .005 radial play. That saw runs like a boss now. Them motors are loose as a goose when new. I think that's got a lot to do with why they run so good.

 

[rms61moparman]

FWIW, I just went thru the same thing. Had a 4000 poulan, with what I thought was too much slop, about .005 radial, so I tore it down, put $25 worth of seals and bearings in it, (well $40 if u count the seals I fubared puttin in lol) only to find that with new bearings, it still had .005 radial play. That saw runs like a boss now. Them motors are loose as a goose when new. I think that's got a lot to do with why they run so good.

Did anyone try to tell you not to worry about a little slop???


Mike

 

[Mastermind]

FWIW, I just went thru the same thing. Had a 4000 poulan, with what I thought was too much slop, about .005 radial, so I tore it down, put $25 worth of seals and bearings in it, (well $40 if u count the seals I fubared puttin in lol) only to find that with new bearings, it still had .005 radial play. That saw runs like a boss now. Them motors are loose as a goose when new. I think that's got a lot to do with why they run so good.

Did anyone try to tell you not to worry about a little slop???


Mike

That makes two of us Mike.

[Edit] I have been told that I'll run anything though......

 

[crowellmachine]

Did anyone try to tell you not to worry about a little slop???


Mike

LOOSE IS FAST !!!!!!!!!! Chuck Norris would just run it........ KJC



Chuck Norris Approves - YouTube

 

[SawGarage]

FWIW, I just went thru the same thing. Had a 4000 poulan, with what I thought was too much slop, about .005 radial, so I tore it down, put $25 worth of seals and bearings in it, (well $40 if u count the seals I fubared puttin in lol) only to find that with new bearings, it still had .005 radial play. That saw runs like a boss now. Them motors are loose as a goose when new. I think that's got a lot to do with why they run so good.

Hi Jer


Will a Stihl or husky (or NON-POULAN, for that matter) run right with that much play?? I would think it would EAT UP seals...

cripes, If a PISTON PIN, or a CRANK PIN bearing was that sloppy, we'd be tearin her apart....

 

[dynodave]

crank slop? over engineering?

"Even after I set the gap with 2 cards I rewiggled the crank and said #(@(^("

The flywheel would rub and the air would leak instantly....This saw came to me with a burned P/C why???? So would you guys knowingly run with a flywheel rubbing on the magneto/coil? or use 3 or 4 cards for the gap? I think thats pretty dumb. I have no problem with .005"! Especially if the new seal is flexible enough to keep the air out.

If you don't measure it... how do you know if it is .005" or .035"?
Tim, wigglesworth and I would have benefited from knowing .005 was fine/original.

Advice like "AW just run it like it is" doesn't get much traction with me. I guess I'd rather have a homelite that vibrates than a rebuilt dead poulan with another burned P/C :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[fossil]

Now you are giving the German cars too much credit! Just kidding.

Personally, I would have just put seals in them and seen what happened when I retested them. Somebody posted a couple pages ago about the Timken seal part number....I'm pretty sure the number they listed is correct. I know if they search this thread for Mark or my posts, the number is listed. I may be wrong, started a new job today and I might be slightly inebreated because I might be in over my head there.....
Mark will set everyone straight.

Nick

The part number is on an older post for a 246 I believe. It was far easier to go find the seal than search it out on this site. I was only able to find it after plugging in the part number.

There is a wealth of information here.

It would be nice (other forums have them) if we could have a stickie for alternate replacement parts for saws by brand. It's not only helpful for NLA parts but can save some change when the OEM part is way over priced.
Some people have great computer search skills and others don't.
This "info bank" would be an asset to the chainsaw forum members.

 

[rms61moparman]

"Even after I set the gap with 2 cards I rewiggled the crank and said #(@(^("

The flywheel would rub and the air would leak instantly....This saw came to me with a burned P/C why???? So would you guys knowingly run with a flywheel rubbing on the magneto/coil? or use 3 or 4 cards for the gap? I think thats pretty dumb. I have no problem with .005"! Especially if the new seal is flexible enough to keep the air out.

If you don't measure it... how do you know if it is .005" or .035"?
Tim, wigglesworth and I would have benefited from knowing .005 was fine/original.

Advice like "AW just run it like it is" doesn't get much traction with me. I guess I'd rather have a homelite that vibrates than a rebuilt dead poulan with another burned P/C :hmm3grin2orange:

I DID tell you that!
Just a couple of pages back.


I think they may have come from the factory with .003 play in the bearings.
The ones I just replaced in a micro were so bad that you almost couldn't set the air gap on the ignition.
It would pull the flywheel to the magnets and lock up with anything less than 3 business cards stacked together (.036 +or -).
But it was still running.


Mike

Mark, Gregg and I have tried to hint to you younger guys several times that these saws run a little sloppy.
Now when I tell you directly, you get your panties in a wad.

I don't usually post exact numbers because I don't own the type of tools that it takes to obtain those numbers.



Mike

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Ok Jerry, I hate to break this to you but the 360-451 series is not the easiest that there is to do fuel lines on.

Not saying there are not other ways to do it but I find it easiest to just bite the bullet and pull the carb out, and take the rear handle off to do it so you can get the tank fitting out.

The fuel fitting is threaded into the tank and you need a thin wall deep 5/16" socket to remove it. You can struggle by with a IGN wrench but theres not room for much swing with it.

You need a 1/8"ID x 3/16"OD fuel line inside the tank. Put it on the fitting first, fish it into the tank and out the filler hole then thread the fitting back into the tank. I never had one leak but a drop of motoseal on the fitting threads wont hurt anything.

You need a 3/16"ID x 5/16"OD line from the tank fitting to the carb. Put it on before you put the rear handle back on and fish it into the carb box when putting the handle back on.

Its really not that hard to pull the handle, just pull the recoil for a bolt under in on the bottom of the handle and unhook the oiler line at the same time. Once the carb is off there are 4 bolts inside the carb box to remove and I use a 1/4" drive universal 5/16" socket with a long extension to make it easy.

thanks mark,
curious about one thing though. just wondering if the fitting will actually come off? don't mind the extra work and can always use extra tools but had a similar issue on a C5 homie concerning removing the fitting. fitting wouldn't come off, apparently since it had been on there for decades, so rather than totally bugger it up i installed the fuel line inside the tank using a wire through the line and pulling it onto the fitting.
also, now that i've received the saw the compression seems to be low so i'm now looking for rings. definitely gonna have to tear it down for visual inspection.

 

[fossil]

I DID tell you that!
Just a couple of pages back.


I think they may have come from the factory with .003 play in the bearings.
The ones I just replaced in a micro were so bad that you almost couldn't set the air gap on the ignition.
It would pull the flywheel to the magnets and lock up with anything less than 3 business cards stacked together (.036 +or -).
But it was still running.


Mike

Mark, Gregg and I have tried to hint to you younger guys several times that these saws run a little sloppy.
Now when I tell you directly, you get your panties in a wad.

I don't usually post exact numbers because I don't own the type of tools that it takes to obtain those numbers.



Mike

No panties in a wad here.

I don't have any experience with needle bearings on a crank as far as clearances go. If one of you were here to check the play and said it was normal that would have been good enough for me.
I changed the bearings anyway as they are dirt cheap, a cinch to change and will do no harm.

I'm not sure what all the hurt feelings or pride or whatever it is all about over this stuff.

Your advice and opinions are valued and much appreciated as always.

Tim